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04/19/2007 12:55:23 AM · #101 |
Originally posted by Artyste:
I'd like to see examples of where actual *teaching* is going on that would make it the primary aspect of this website. |
What about the 30 day challenges? I learned the most from those and receiving comments about what I had done, and forcing myself to try and come up with photos and processing is really shared quite abit in those threads and in the photos comments.
The second largest forum on this site is the "Individual Photographic Discussion" with over 13k threads and almost 200k posts.
eh?
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04/19/2007 12:57:19 AM · #102 |
Originally posted by jdannels:
THE WARRIORS ARE GOING TO THE PLAYOFFS FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 13 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOHOO!!! |
The Warriors? What sport? [ sorry :))) ] |
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04/19/2007 01:02:31 AM · #103 |
Originally posted by jdannels:
Originally posted by Artyste:
I'd like to see examples of where actual *teaching* is going on that would make it the primary aspect of this website. |
What about the 30 day challenges? I learned the most from those and receiving comments about what I had done, and forcing myself to try and come up with photos and processing is really shared quite abit in those threads and in the photos comments.
The second largest forum on this site is the "Individual Photographic Discussion" with over 13k threads and almost 200k posts.
eh? |
Those are still secondary to the site itself. Part and parcel of the community aspect. People aren't doing those things to *teach*.. they are doing them for the self. Sure, you learn, but nobody is doing it to teach :)
Have you seen most of the threads in the "Individual Photographic Discussion"? They are usually, "Hey, look at my photo that I like!" "hey cool! that's great" "I love that!" "good going!" end of thread.
Again.. community. Learning something is a second-hand result.
*EDIT* I just realized this is all very off-topic anyway. It also really boils down to what an individual feels they are getting from the site. If you, as an individual, are learning a lot from this site, naturally you will feel as if that's a primary aspect... and if you are learning a great deal, that's wonderful. Keep at it, learn more. The most important thing you *can* learn, however, is that DPC isn't the end all, be all. Don't think that what you learn here is all you ever need to learn. Don't think that what succeeds here is all that ever succeeds.. Don't think that failure here means failure anywhere else. This is a little back-alley bar in the world of photography. Learn all you can here, but see the rest of the world, and grow past it.
That's my advice.
Message edited by author 2007-04-19 01:11:38. |
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04/19/2007 01:16:43 AM · #104 |
Originally posted by Artyste:
Those are still secondary to the site itself. Part and parcel of the community aspect. People aren't doing those things to *teach*.. they are doing them for the self. Sure, you learn, but nobody is doing it to teach :)
Have you seen most of the threads in the "Individual Photographic Discussion"? They are usually, "Hey, look at my photo that I like!" "hey cool! that's great" "I love that!" "good going!" end of thread.
Again.. community. Learning something is a second-hand result. |
Yeah, you have some good points, I guess I didn't see the *teaching*(in asterisks) point, but if you want to learn almost anything photo related, you can find someone here willing to help you or point you somewhere to find some useful info.
BTW, you could have also thwarted my argument on the Individual Photo Discussion forum by pointing out that a good percentage of those posts are also from "pick your favorite photo thread" and the "match the photo" thread :P.
EDIT:Ursula its basketball!!
Message edited by author 2007-04-19 01:23:59.
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04/19/2007 01:20:29 AM · #105 |
Originally posted by jdannels:
Originally posted by Artyste:
Those are still secondary to the site itself. Part and parcel of the community aspect. People aren't doing those things to *teach*.. they are doing them for the self. Sure, you learn, but nobody is doing it to teach :)
Have you seen most of the threads in the "Individual Photographic Discussion"? They are usually, "Hey, look at my photo that I like!" "hey cool! that's great" "I love that!" "good going!" end of thread.
Again.. community. Learning something is a second-hand result. |
Yeah, you have some good points, I guess I didn't see the *teaching*(in asterisks) point, but if you want to learn almost anything photo related, you can find someone here willing to help you or point you somewhere to find some useful info.
BTW, you could have also thwarted my argument on the Individual Photo Discussion forum by pointing out that a good percentage of those posts are also from "pick your favorite photo thread" and the "match the photo" thread :P. |
LOL.. true. That last part slipped my mind ;) |
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04/19/2007 01:57:27 AM · #106 |
Isn't it *just* possible that different people get different things out of DPC? Or maybe even everyone gets different things out of DPC at different points?
I'm not here primarily to compete. I can't, simply put. I'm here to share, to learn, to teach (yes, Artyste, I love teaching), and to get reactions to my shots. If I ever stumble into a top 10 shot or ribbon, I might start wanting to compete.
MK, you're so good at reminding people not to force their opinions on others. I find your regular posts on that point to be refreshing, actually. Just try to stretch that concept to this point, too. Whatever D&L wanted to do when they created DPC, everyone brings their own primary uses to the table.
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04/19/2007 02:52:57 AM · #107 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
Isn't it *just* possible that different people get different things out of DPC? Or maybe even everyone gets different things out of DPC at different points?
I'm not here primarily to compete. I can't, simply put. I'm here to share, to learn, to teach (yes, Artyste, I love teaching), and to get reactions to my shots. If I ever stumble into a top 10 shot or ribbon, I might start wanting to compete.
MK, you're so good at reminding people not to force their opinions on others. I find your regular posts on that point to be refreshing, actually. Just try to stretch that concept to this point, too. Whatever D&L wanted to do when they created DPC, everyone brings their own primary uses to the table. |
You might want to read the end of my latest long post.. under the *EDIT*.. where I pretty much say what you did. |
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04/19/2007 06:00:40 AM · #108 |
I read much of the first 3/4 of this thread and skimmed the rest. My opinion in summary:
- Disparaging anyone for leaving any comments = bad
- Posting a complaint thread like this on behalf of someone else = bad
- Is DPC a learning site? A competition site? - DPC is whatever you get out of it. Lately it's just a bitch and moan and fight site.
- I respect the right of the voters to vote however they want and I expect the same.
- 98% of comments are helpful in some way or another. The other 2% aren't worth discussing - particulary when it may discourage people from commenting at all.
Good night and God Bless. :) |
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04/19/2007 06:40:24 AM · #109 |
The very name of this site suggests it is mainly a competition/challenge based site.
I personally have learnt SO MUCH from you guys over the last year or so and put that down the the massive and diverse membership that we have.
There are so many people with different backgrounds and levels of experience that are only too willing to help out if you have a questions, which is fantastic.
I have recommended this site to quite a few people who "got their first SLR for Xmas" etc. I explained that it is mainly a non-prize competition type affair, though the forums are a goldmine of information!
DPC ROCKS!!!
AL. |
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04/19/2007 07:45:13 AM · #110 |
Originally posted by Artyste:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Originally posted by L2:
For everyone in here that was advocating (incorrectly) that DPC is *primarily* a teaching site, ... |
I'm probably going to regret asking the question but if DPC is NOT "*primarily*" a teaching site then just what is it? |
It's *primarily* a challenge site. A competition. Fun. (or should be). Secondarily, it's a community website, popularity contest, forums. Only in third would I list it as having anything to do with teaching.
I'd like to see examples of where actual *teaching* is going on that would make it the primary aspect of this website. The tutorials? There are just over 50 in 5 years.. that's 10 a year. I'd hardly call that primary.. and *most* of them have come along just in the last little while by a few people. The occasional person that passes along how they process? Again.. hardly primary.
The learning/teaching aspect of this site is a good one. There is no doubt that as people partake in the primary aspect, which are the challenges, they learn. But to call this a primary teaching site is just being blind or over-zealous.
This could change in the future, but I don't see it. The call of the ribbon is still too strong. The quest for popularity never-ending.
No.. DPC is definitely not a website where *teaching* takes any kind of forefront at this time. |
Why can't DPC be thought of as a competition and teaching site? I know I have picked up many tips and tricks on how to make my photography better. Example, Judi posted a tutorial on infrared photography editing and it helped me understand and learned how to process through PSE so much easier. I truly wish more tutorials were set up like the one she did.
I guess I don't get the comment on looking at this site, for me and I emphasize ME, as a vehicle where I can learn to become a better photographer would make me blind or over-zealous. I kind of get the feeling that I'm just a fool for thinking I could learn from this site more so that winning a virtual ribbon. I don't win ribbons, never have but I think from the beginning, I have improved and I thank DPC for that.
Message edited by author 2007-04-19 07:52:29.
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04/19/2007 08:32:19 AM · #111 |
why is it no one complained when the very next week after i finished 6th with this shot  , pixelstate won a blue with a copy shot??
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04/19/2007 08:56:39 AM · #112 |
Originally posted by dainmcgowan:
why is it no one complained when the very next week after i finished 6th with this shot , pixelstate won a blue with a copy shot?? |
:) I had wondered the same thing (somewhere in the depths of this thread). Actually, I think in the comments of the ribbon winner there are one or two comments about the "popularity" of the location or reference to similar images. Not 100% certain, I'd have to go back and take another look.
I'm pretty sure that if I was in the neighborhood of this photo opportunity I'd take a shot of it myself. Whether or not I'd take the trek to the other side of the water to get a "unique" angle is another story. :) |
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04/19/2007 09:30:53 AM · #113 |
I think the main thing I've learned in this thread is that someone is surprised at mk's attitude.  |
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04/19/2007 09:38:53 AM · #114 |
:)
Originally posted by dudephil:
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04/19/2007 09:44:12 AM · #115 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
MK, you're so good at reminding people not to force their opinions on others. I find your regular posts on that point to be refreshing, actually. Just try to stretch that concept to this point, too. Whatever D&L wanted to do when they created DPC, everyone brings their own primary uses to the table. |
I'm not really sure how this got turned into an "mk doesn't think this is a learning site" thread since I don't really recall saying anything of the sort (and if you read my posts, rather than the responses to my posts, I think you'll see that). I absolutely accept that people participate here in order to learn and that many, many folks have vastly improved here. I am not denying that at all. But I don't think "learning site" should be used as an excuse to force positive opinions. |
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04/19/2007 09:46:23 AM · #116 |
Originally posted by dudephil:
I think the main thing I've learned in this thread is that someone is surprised at mk's attitude. |
I bet you're not. |
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04/19/2007 12:40:57 PM · #117 |
Originally posted by mk:
I don't think "learning site" should be used as an excuse to force positive opinions. |
I could not possibly, in any way, agree with you more. :)
In fact, positive opinions, when purely congratulatory, are a LOT less helpful than negative ones.
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04/19/2007 01:32:04 PM · #118 |
Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
Originally posted by Artyste:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Originally posted by L2:
For everyone in here that was advocating (incorrectly) that DPC is *primarily* a teaching site, ... |
I'm probably going to regret asking the question but if DPC is NOT "*primarily*" a teaching site then just what is it? |
It's *primarily* a challenge site. A competition. Fun. (or should be). Secondarily, it's a community website, popularity contest, forums. Only in third would I list it as having anything to do with teaching.
I'd like to see examples of where actual *teaching* is going on that would make it the primary aspect of this website. The tutorials? There are just over 50 in 5 years.. that's 10 a year. I'd hardly call that primary.. and *most* of them have come along just in the last little while by a few people. The occasional person that passes along how they process? Again.. hardly primary.
The learning/teaching aspect of this site is a good one. There is no doubt that as people partake in the primary aspect, which are the challenges, they learn. But to call this a primary teaching site is just being blind or over-zealous.
This could change in the future, but I don't see it. The call of the ribbon is still too strong. The quest for popularity never-ending.
No.. DPC is definitely not a website where *teaching* takes any kind of forefront at this time. |
Why can't DPC be thought of as a competition and teaching site? I know I have picked up many tips and tricks on how to make my photography better. Example, Judi posted a tutorial on infrared photography editing and it helped me understand and learned how to process through PSE so much easier. I truly wish more tutorials were set up like the one she did.
I guess I don't get the comment on looking at this site, for me and I emphasize ME, as a vehicle where I can learn to become a better photographer would make me blind or over-zealous. I kind of get the feeling that I'm just a fool for thinking I could learn from this site more so that winning a virtual ribbon. I don't win ribbons, never have but I think from the beginning, I have improved and I thank DPC for that. |
Nothing says you can't think of DPC as an educational site, or use it primarily in that regard. However, there are photography sites that ARE geared more towards educating members about photography and much less, if at all, on competition. |
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04/19/2007 01:40:56 PM · #119 |
for the record here is what the creators of DPC have to say about their website...
Originally posted by help/about:
DPChallenge was created in January 2002 by two friends, Drew Ungvarsky (drewmedia) and Langdon Oliver (langdon). The original idea behind the site was for it to be a place where the two of us and a couple of our friends could teach ourselves to be better photographers by giving each other a 'challenge' for the week. The idea quickly took off and became much more in the months that followed. |
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04/19/2007 03:23:36 PM · #120 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
Originally posted by mk:
I don't think "learning site" should be used as an excuse to force positive opinions. |
..., positive opinions, when purely congratulatory, are a LOT less helpful than negative ones. |
Balanced critiques that identify both what is good and what is not about an image are, BY FAR, the most informative and useful form of comment.
Giving purely negative comments is easily as wrong as giving only sugar coated one. Voters who feel that giving purely negative comments is OK are just plain wrong. That alienates and frustrates photographers that get them.
If you can't think of a single positive thing to say about an image to go along with your negative observations then you probably should refrain from commenting.
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04/19/2007 03:33:51 PM · #121 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Balanced critiques that identify both what is good and what is not about an image are, BY FAR, the most informative and useful form of comment.
Giving purely negative comments is easily as wrong as giving only sugar coated one. Voters who feel that giving purely negative comments is OK are just plain wrong. That alienates and frustrates photographers that get them.
If you can't think of a single positive thing to say about an image to go along with your negative observations then you probably should refrain from commenting. |
Yay! Well-said! Also, I seriously doubt that those who give balanced comments receive harassing pm's. |
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04/19/2007 03:45:14 PM · #122 |
Originally posted by skewsme:
... I seriously doubt that those who give balanced comments receive harassing pm's. |
True. I've openly and publicly trashed as many images on this site as anyone but I can't remember the last time I had a negative reaction.
The secret? I attempt to correctly recognize and identify what is right about each image I criticize as well. And you know what happens? Surprise and dismay... people actually listen and respond positively to the criticisms. And you can be certain that I'm not always right, either.
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04/19/2007 04:19:34 PM · #123 |
Steve, I agree with you.
I didn't communicate well. "pure" was supposed to mean no detail vs. specifics, as opposed to meaning solely positive vs. negative.
By "purely congratulatory," I intended to distinguish:
"well done!"
from
"I love the lighting on this!"
I would argue that the first isn't as helpful as "the focus is off" whereas the second one is.
In other words, specific comments, positive or negative, are more helpful than generic ones, positive or negative.
I generally try to say something positive every time I comment; usually something is good, even if it's only the concept. I'm not 100% successful, but I try.
Message edited by author 2007-04-19 16:20:55.
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04/19/2007 04:22:02 PM · #124 |
Originally posted by soup:
for the record here is what the creators of DPC have to say about their website...
Originally posted by help/about:
DPChallenge was created in January 2002 by two friends, Drew Ungvarsky (drewmedia) and Langdon Oliver (langdon). The original idea behind the site was for it to be a place where the two of us and a couple of our friends could teach ourselves to be better photographers by giving each other a 'challenge' for the week. The idea quickly took off and became much more in the months that followed. |
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Oh thank you Soup!! This is the reason why I say this site is a teaching site. The challenges teach us to be better photographers.
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04/19/2007 04:33:16 PM · #125 |
well your welcome - sort of. it still doesn't mean every memeber here feels or thinks that same way. but originally that was the underlying reason for registering the domain name. thinmgs have a tednency to evolve over time though. and that original idea may have changed a bit.
i do find all the arguing about it pseudo-amusing. it's right there in black & grey... ;}
Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
Originally posted by soup:
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for the record here is what the creators of DPC have to say about their website...
Originally posted by help/about:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DPChallenge was created in January 2002 by two friends, Drew Ungvarsky (drewmedia) and Langdon Oliver (langdon). The original idea behind the site was for it to be a place where the two of us and a couple of our friends could teach ourselves to be better photographers by giving each other a 'challenge' for the week. The idea quickly took off and became much more in the months that followed.
Oh thank you Soup!! This is the reason why I say this site is a teaching site. The challenges teach us to be better photographers. |
Message edited by author 2007-04-19 16:34:46.
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