| Author | Thread |
|
|
03/25/2007 12:44:56 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
Originally posted by noisemaker:
and why wouldnt they hire me? my card doesnt say im 16, i dont need to tell them in 16, when i give hte card out in person i dont look 16. |
What I'm saying is that if I were hiring a photographer, I'd expect a professional adult, not a 16-year-old.
For that and other reasons, please do be up front about your age. Someone thinking they're dealing with an adult but finding out later you're not could hurt your reputation at minimum and get you or your client in legal trouble at maximum.
Originally posted by noisemaker:
there are no legal liabilities |
I think there are, at least in the US.
For one thing, you're not allowed to sign contracts. Your signature carries no meaning legally, as far as I know. In addition, if you break something on a set, or damage someone's belongings, it's your parents on the hook, not you.
There are layers of complexity that you can deal with yourself as a legal adult but that are up your parents until you're older.
Just like the situation with shooting nudes under the legal adult age, my saying this has nothing to do with you as you, Dustin, the individual; it has only to do with how the law views minors.
Originally posted by noisemaker:
do you mean by card or my physical looks of me? i dress well and put together. |
Your card looks quite nice. When hiring someone, though, I gotta tell ya the card means almost nothing to me.
Before setting out to get paid for anything, I encourage you to discuss it with your parents and possibly talk to an attorney for a bit. I'd bet there are ways to deal with any issues, but ignoring them or assuming they don't exist isn't the right approach.
Maybe I'm thinking about it too much. I'd just hate to see your enthusiasm smacked hard by some screwy legal or other problem.
As I said, I really do wish you luck - take these points as coming from a friendly neighbor, not just an old curmudgeon who wants to see you fail. And then come back and tell us of your successes. :) |
i think if i have a good portfolio, which im building it wouldnt matter if i was my age or 2 breaths from dead. and illbe upfront with my age, but its not like im going to put on my card IM 17 but im not going ot hide it either. again i don't see how it'd get me in legal trouble.
and isnt a contract just an agreement between 2 parties? which means i can make one and i sign and the other party signs. bam its done.
this isnt my main source of income and won't be for along time, therefor i don't think i need a business license or tax#'s or anything. Its a waste of time because id get every cent of tax i paid back anyways. |
|
|
|
03/25/2007 02:35:00 AM · #27 |
Dustin, you now have a choice.
You can listen to at least two adults who have told you that you can't legally sign a contract. You saying you can doesn't mean anything as far as the law is concerned. Yes, if everything goes right there's no problem. Lawsuits and other legal issues never arise when things go right, though.
Or you can listen to your fellow teenager, who uses words like "retarded" to refer to people who might have concerns dealing with someone who isn't legally an adult.
Or you can listen to yourself declare there are no legal issues, based on your full range of knowledge as a 16-year-old. On that point, I'll simply cite your lack of understanding of the issues surrounding shooting a minor in the nude. There are questions and issues you just haven't been exposed to.
I understand, and I'm sympathetic, that it sucks to be told things aren't the same when you're a kid. That doesn't change the facts.
I'll leave you to your choice.
|
|
|
|
03/25/2007 02:43:53 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
Dustin, you now have a choice.
You can listen to at least two adults who have told you that you can't legally sign a contract. You saying you can doesn't mean anything as far as the law is concerned. Yes, if everything goes right there's no problem. Lawsuits and other legal issues never arise when things go right, though.
Or you can listen to your fellow teenager, who uses words like "retarded" to refer to people who might have concerns dealing with someone who isn't legally an adult.
Or you can listen to yourself declare there are no legal issues, based on your full range of knowledge as a 16-year-old. On that point, I'll simply cite your lack of understanding of the issues surrounding shooting a minor in the nude. There are questions and issues you just haven't been exposed to.
I understand, and I'm sympathetic, that it sucks to be told things aren't the same when you're a kid. That doesn't change the facts.
I'll leave you to your choice. |
i never said i can sign contracts.
and where does he say that? kind of quick to judge, and if that was directed at me, i never ever use that word. my little brother is mentally challenged and would never degrade his wonderful mind and soul by using that name.
and sure if some shit went wrong then there would be legal issues. and actually from the little reading i did earlier i saw that i am legal to sign a contract if my parents agree. then its all on my shoulders. and please don't bring that up again, i know what i did and what's done is done. |
|
|
|
03/25/2007 02:47:35 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
...You can listen to at least two adults who have told you that you can't legally sign a contract. You saying you can doesn't mean anything as far as the law is concerned. Yes, if everything goes right there's no problem. Lawsuits and other legal issues never arise when things go right, though. |
Make that three.
As a minor, (in the US) any contract you sign is unenforceable. That means you could take money from someone and never deliver the goods, and there isn't a thing they can do to get the money back except perhaps to sue your parents. THAT is why people don't want to do business with minors.
It's not that you can't legally sign a contract (because you can) - it's that the contract itself is unenforceable against you in the event of a dispute.
|
|
|
|
03/25/2007 02:50:45 AM · #30 |
Okay, I'll make one more post to show you what I was referring to.
Originally posted by noisemaker:
i never said i can sign contracts. |
Yes, you did, in your last post:
Originally posted by noisemaker:
isnt a contract just an agreement between 2 parties? which means i can make one and i sign and the other party signs. bam its done." |
As for describing people as "retarded" if they're concerned about dealing with minors, it was in his last post:
Originally posted by MadMan2k:
If they call off the shoot when you meet them because you don't look old enough to do a good job, they're retarded |
|
|
|
|
03/25/2007 02:54:06 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
Okay, I'll make one more post to show you what I was referring to.
Originally posted by noisemaker:
i never said i can sign contracts. |
Yes, you did, in your last post:
Originally posted by noisemaker:
isnt a contract just an agreement between 2 parties? which means i can make one and i sign and the other party signs. bam its done." |
As for describing people as "retarded" if they're concerned about dealing with minors, it was in his last post:
Originally posted by MadMan2k:
If they call off the shoot when you meet them because you don't look old enough to do a good job, they're retarded |
|
and i was asking... hence the question mark.
and ah okay i see now...(about his post)
and i really can't stand how whenever i make a thread it almost always turns intoa dispute how im underrage and that i can get into legal stuff and i shouldnt do this and should do that. When most of hte time i never even ask.
|
|
|
|
03/25/2007 03:01:12 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by noisemaker:
...
and i really can't stand how whenever i make a thread it almost always turns intoa dispute how im underrage and that i can get into legal stuff and i shouldnt do this and should do that. When most of hte time i never even ask. |
Good point. I looked at your original post - your business card looks fine. I use GoDaddy as a domain name provider, and also for my hosting. I pay a little extra, so there are no ads on the hosting. I think you can probably get out of this for a domain name fee only and have the domain point to //noisemaker.dpchallenge.com until you figure the rest of it out. :)
|
|
|
|
03/25/2007 03:04:12 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by noisemaker:
and i really can't stand how whenever i make a thread it almost always turns intoa dispute how im underrage and that i can get into legal stuff and i shouldnt do this and should do that. When most of hte time i never even ask. |
Fair enough. I won't do that in the future unless you ask.
|
|
|
|
03/25/2007 03:04:38 AM · #34 |
Who says he has to sign a contract? The kind of photography he seems to be planning to do isn't some kind of highly lucrative work with millions of dollars being passed around, or probably involving any businesses at all...
He can set up an hourly rate, charge them that or give them a discount if he feels like it, and set a flat fee for prints or other services, and add that to the hourly cost. A handwritten invoice would probably be fine, and then they can pay in cash or whatever so he won't have to report it on his taxes.
Who actually pays someone before they do their work? If they're happy with it after, they pay him, if not, they either rip him off or come to some kind of compromise. They're not going to pay him before he does the work, and then come sue his parents or something if they're not happy with it...
No one would hire a photographer for a big contract job without meeting them in person and discussing it, and if his age and lack of experience lead the clients elsewhere, then that's that. If it's for some portraits to hang on the wall and send to their friends, or a low-key wedding, or someone's birthday party, they'll pay him after the fact if they're happy.
And levyj - no, I did not use 'words like retarded' to describe someone who 'might have concerns'... I used the word to describe someone who would dismiss a photographer based on age for work on this scale. I do stand by that description, by the way, but don't take that to mean I'm saying they're not entitled to choose who they hire however they please. They're just as free to do that as I am to call them retarded. |
|
|
|
03/25/2007 03:11:41 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by L2:
Originally posted by noisemaker:
...
and i really can't stand how whenever i make a thread it almost always turns intoa dispute how im underrage and that i can get into legal stuff and i shouldnt do this and should do that. When most of hte time i never even ask. |
Good point. I looked at your original post - your business card looks fine. I use GoDaddy as a domain name provider, and also for my hosting. I pay a little extra, so there are no ads on the hosting. I think you can probably get out of this for a domain name fee only and have the domain point to //noisemaker.dpchallenge.com until you figure the rest of it out. :) |
well thank you :) i bought steinbachphoto.ca from netfirms. im going to set it up when im not so lazy |
|
|
|
03/25/2007 03:19:49 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
Originally posted by noisemaker:
and i really can't stand how whenever i make a thread it almost always turns intoa dispute how im underrage and that i can get into legal stuff and i shouldnt do this and should do that. When most of hte time i never even ask. |
Fair enough. I won't do that in the future unless you ask. |
and thank you as well for that,i do understand where you are coming from, but this is a passion, a love of mine right now, and now i just want to start getting some local exposure and hte odd small gig here and there. It's hard enough when my time table is too big for my age. i wake up at 6 every day go to school then right after school i work until 9 or 10 adn thats almost everyday of the week, and i work weekeneds too, in that i need to include family time, time with ym girlfriend, time to take photos for this overly addicting site, and time for myself(wehter it be watching tv or hiking up my mountain and watching sunset and taking photos), then adding legal this and legal that right now would tip me over the edge. Still occasionaly i break down because i cant handle all this pressure. i have teachers wanted me to design this and that for them. want photos done for some class they teach. i lead a jam packed life.
and sorry for that, i should have posted this in the rant forum.
my blood sugar has been all over the place today explaining my moods |
|
|
|
03/25/2007 10:08:23 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by noisemaker:
exuse me? my writing skills are horrid? you don't know my writing skills, you haven't seen me write anywhere but in a forum! ive written letters to cbc publishers about a movie and that has to be very professional, and guess what i did it and got a reply. don't critise my writing please when you have only seen it in forums. |
If you write well, you should write well all of the time and Not just when it suits you.
Originally posted by MadMan2k:
Who says he has to sign a contract? The kind of photography he seems to be planning to do isn't some kind of highly lucrative work with millions of dollars being passed around, or probably involving any businesses at all... |
Any transaction made is a contract. Goods or Services rendered for payment, is a contract. A Contract is not only a written document, but is also verbal agreements as well as sales invoices. The agreement made does not have to be for 'millions of dollars' it can be for a hay-penny. It is still a promise to preform a task for payment.
Endedly, as it always is.. do what you will.
|
|
|
|
03/25/2007 10:16:35 AM · #38 |
Let's help Noisemaker with comments about his business card, and let the legality of his photography career and writing skills drop, OK?
|
|
|
|
03/25/2007 10:44:38 AM · #39 |
| The card looks good to me, mate. As for the skeptics, if you don't try this you'll never find out. Go for it. Throw your heart and soul in and see how it goes. Best of luck. |
|
|
|
03/25/2007 11:05:55 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by L2:
Let's help Noisemaker with comments about his business card, and let the legality of his photography career and writing skills drop, OK? |
Yup yup. :)
I wouldn't bother with using a word for some of the digits of your phone number. I can never remember those things, and I find it annoying when I have to figure it out as I dial. That is, when I dial numbers, I barely have to think about where my fingers go; it's just a known pattern. The only word I remember is my bank's, because it's their name: 800-suntrust (yes, it's 8 letters; I only dial the first 7).
Or, at minimum, include the numbers too, like 250-893-PHOTO (XXXX) or put the numbers in smaller font just under the letters.
Message edited by author 2007-03-25 11:45:12.
|
|
|
|
03/25/2007 11:16:08 AM · #41 |
| The card look good to me. Nice choice of colours and a simple layout. |
|
|
|
03/25/2007 11:41:30 AM · #42 |
Dustin,
I've been watching this post quietly but feel compelled to throw my opinion in finally.
I fit firmly in to the adult group of this discussion but I encourage you to follow your passion. I think we older and wiser folks sometimes spend too much time building road blocks then we do building bridges to success.
I hope those that have been offering their opinions are truly doing it in the spirit of encouragement but I have to admit they don't read that way to me. Most of them read as reasons why you shouldn’t expect to succeed.
Here's are some reasons that I think you will. You seem responsible with your description of long hours of school and work. You have a desire to learn as can be seen by your participation here and you have a passion which is something far too few people young or old lack.
So for you my advice is to be responsible in your dealings but go for it! Explore the possibilities and develop your skills.
To some of the others on this post my advice is to help Dustin see the glass is half full not half empty. The points you offered are valid important to know but don’t you have some encouraging advice to help him. Offer alternatives not just roadblocks.
Message edited by author 2007-03-26 12:28:33. |
|
|
|
03/25/2007 11:50:55 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by DJWoodward:
I hope those that have been offering their opinions are truly doing it in the spirit of encouragement ... |
That's certainly where I'm coming from. I thought I said as much a few times. To me, identifying possible issues and suggesting solutions (for example, suggesting he talk to parents) *is* meant to help because it lets you take care of things before they become a problem.
But if I wasn't clear enough, Dustin, it's obvious you have the maturity and drive to go for it. I look forward to your telling us of your successes. :)
|
|
|
|
03/25/2007 12:36:05 PM · #44 |
I'm glad to hear that levyj413 and I'm sorry if I misinterpreted. I saw your first response as less than encouraging and it seemed to set the tone for the rest of the thread...
Originally posted by levyj413:
But really, my question is: do you think people are going to hire you? I just wouldn't hire a 16-year-old. Legal liabilities, lack of experience, and general presentation would be strong obstacles for me.
That is, go for it and good luck! I truly wish you success. But don't be too disappointed if you get that reaction. |
|
|
|
|
03/25/2007 12:38:49 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by littlegett:
Originally posted by noisemaker:
exuse me? my writing skills are horrid? you don't know my writing skills, you haven't seen me write anywhere but in a forum! ive written letters to cbc publishers about a movie and that has to be very professional, and guess what i did it and got a reply. don't critise my writing please when you have only seen it in forums. |
If you write well, you should write well all of the time and Not just when it suits you.
Originally posted by MadMan2k:
Who says he has to sign a contract? The kind of photography he seems to be planning to do isn't some kind of highly lucrative work with millions of dollars being passed around, or probably involving any businesses at all... |
Any transaction made is a contract. Goods or Services rendered for payment, is a contract. A Contract is not only a written document, but is also verbal agreements as well as sales invoices. The agreement made does not have to be for 'millions of dollars' it can be for a hay-penny. It is still a promise to preform a task for payment.
Endedly, as it always is.. do what you will. |
okay this is my last post about this legal stuff then im done. i work at a camera store, i write like 20 invoices a day, so your saying what im doing is illegal? i dont think so
and for everyone else i do thank you for the encouragement and i know you guys are all just trying to help me and i really respect that! |
|
|
|
03/25/2007 12:39:01 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by L2:
Let's help Noisemaker with comments about his business card, and let the legality of his photography career and writing skills drop, OK? |
Personal opinion about the card, I have seen similar type cards for Graphic Designers. To me it does not say Photographer at glance.
|
|
|
|
03/25/2007 05:10:45 PM · #47 |
Why was my last post deleted????
|
|
|
|
03/26/2007 01:53:06 AM · #48 |
| okay for when you go to steinbachphoto.ca wouldyou rather be directed to my profile on dpc or straight to my portfolio on dpc? |
|
|
|
03/26/2007 12:22:28 PM · #49 |
Wow, from reading these posts, you are definately not mature enough to pursue this. I understand people are telling you things that you don't want to hear but they are truth.
If anyone says you don't need to sign a contract to do work they are crazy. Anything outside from helping a buddy w/ some shots should require a contract. It provides a guideline for what services are being rendered for what price. You can't legally sign so your contract is null an void. If your parents agree to the terms than THEY are responsible for your end of the contract not you. What does this mean? Lets say you do a gig and they don't like the results, people are fickle and it happens. They take you to court and they will win. Your contract means nothing and you give back all money you earned to them and you get bad PR.
You cannot shoot nudes, you cannot shoot in bars, clubs etc...
YOu cannont purchase an LLC or any other business entity. Do you own a car?
People will have a problem when they hire a professional and a sophmore in high school shows up. Its not a bash on you, everyone was young. Im 25 and people still raise an eyebrow when I show up to shoot their wedding.
You should find an internship or work with an older photog as their assistant. Good luck. |
|
|
|
03/26/2007 01:30:44 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by noisemaker:
okay for when you go to steinbachphoto.ca wouldyou rather be directed to my profile on dpc or straight to my portfolio on dpc? |
Think about your target audience and link to the most appropriate collection. For example, if your target audience includes bands, link to your band collection:
"//www.dpchallenge.com/portfolio.php?USER_ID=62925&collection_id=19024"
I would limit the of photographs in the collection to your "best" as if you were presenting a printed portfolio. |
|
