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03/12/2007 03:24:04 PM · #1 |
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03/12/2007 03:38:57 PM · #2 |
Time honored chiche!; When guns are outlawed, only outlaws (and government agencies) will have guns.
I value my 2nd amendment right to own firearms. Fortunately the liberals in New Mexico seem to value this right as well! We also have a 'concealed carry' permit law that is well used in this state. Thugs beware! |
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03/12/2007 04:10:45 PM · #3 |
1997 statistics:
USA population- 270,000,0000
Deaths by gun violence- 32,436
Japan population- 125,000,000
Deaths by gun violence- 22 |
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03/12/2007 04:11:38 PM · #4 |
Let's here it for all the Washington DC militias who have had their rights stomped by this unfair law!
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03/12/2007 04:32:53 PM · #5 |
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03/12/2007 04:43:14 PM · #6 |
Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
Unintentional------------Homicide ------------- Suicide
USA 4.08 (1999) 6.08 (1999) 0.42 (1999)
Canada 0.54 (1999) 2.65 (1997) 0.15 (1997)
Switzerland 0.50 (1999) 5.78 (1998) -
Scotland 0.12 (1999) 0.27 (1999) -
England/Wales 0.12 (1999/00) 0.22 (1999) 0.01 (1999)
Japan 0.04* (1998) 0.04 (1995) <0.01 (1997)
I believe these countries have pretty tough gun laws. I know the facts are old but they are consistant with time.
There's another fact floating out there somewhere about how many people who try to protect themselves from guns with guns that actually wind up dead as opposed to people that don't carry guns.
That alone I find the most interesting. I'll try and dig it up.
Message edited by author 2007-03-12 17:28:10. |
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03/12/2007 04:51:21 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
There's another fact floating out there |
There are no facts. Only interpretations.
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03/12/2007 04:54:27 PM · #8 |
| I suggest that those who really think they have a right to guns unconditionally should have them. As the statistics show, they (and unfortunately some innocents) will, over time, be flushed from the gene pool. |
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03/12/2007 04:56:05 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by genghis:
1997 statistics:
USA population- 270,000,0000
Deaths by gun violence- 32,436
Japan population- 125,000,000
Deaths by gun violence- 22 |
You're point? ???
Now, let's address the above statistics. Can you also provide the number of deaths in Japan by knifing versus the number of similar deaths in the U.S. (I'll wager that there is a similar ratio.)
Second, map out those areas with the highest gun ownership versus those areas with the lowest gun ownership. I'll wager most of those 32,436 deaths occurred in areas with low to no gun ownership. (ie: most cities have very low gun ownership). Usually the only ones owning guns in such areas are criminals.
As such, please tell me who is supposed to keep me and my family safe besides Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson? The truth of the matter....in the past few years I have discovered that if I am in need of defending I better be able to do it myself as the police are 100% unreliable to do the job.
I made a call to 911 while observing a violent situation at a gas station. The response I received from 911... "It's New Haven...whad'ya want us to do about it."
Of course 15 minutes later when the gas station clerk called the police there arrived three police officers. They couldn't do much more than take a report and the color of the car. Had they responded to my call the situation could have been prevented and the man arrested.
Likewise, 2 yrs ago during Puerto Rican day I made two 911 calls to police. Our neighbors had made two calls regarding one of the situations as well. In which we thought someone could have been seriously hurt. The police never showed.
As for the statistics of those who wind up dead trying to defend themselves. It must be weighed with regards to those who simply wind up dead. And also include those who endeavor defend themselves and dissuade the situation. (ie: exclaiming at the door that "I have a gun!") Many burglers have left the premises from such declarations.
Also, there is something that neither Canada, Switzerland, Scotland, England or Japan have that serious affects crime rates. It's called "Mexico". As much as 90% of the crime of many cities is attributable to illegal aliens.
Also remember that most of the gun murders occur with "illegal" guns. So banning guns is not likely to change those statistics.
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03/12/2007 05:05:08 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by fir3bird:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
There's another fact floating out there |
There are no facts. Only interpretations. |
Even "interpretations" is questionable. "Spin" is probably the most accurate.
Every set of data is manipulated to appear to say what the funding group wants it to say.
The most amusing thing I see about the statistics quoted is that Switzerland, for all its gun laws, has a murder ratio of almost exactly the same as the US, per capita.
There is FAR more to these statistics than pure numbers alone. Comparing gun violence in the US versus that in Japan is pure smoke and mirrors. You're not only comparing the gun ownership, you're comparing the entire societal behavior. Japan is absolutely known for its politeness in all situations. Their entire society and even the language is based on politeness. It's actually _difficult_ to be (what americans would see as) rude in Japanese. In Japan it can be considered rude to not use the appropriately honorific form of "please" when speaking to someone. |
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03/12/2007 05:08:55 PM · #11 |
Anybody want to place bets as to how many pages this goes? :P
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03/12/2007 05:10:38 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Anybody want to place bets as to how many pages this goes? :P |
Hmm.. whose pages, yours or mine? :p |
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03/12/2007 05:13:25 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Also, there is something that neither Canada, Switzerland, Scotland, England or Japan have that serious affects crime rates. It's called "Mexico". As much as 90% of the crime of many cities is attributable to illegal aliens.
Also remember that most of the gun murders occur with "illegal" guns. So banning guns is not likely to change those statistics. |
So where are all the illegal guns coming from ? Are the Mexicans making them ? |
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03/12/2007 05:14:04 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by chimericvisions:
Originally posted by yanko:
Anybody want to place bets as to how many pages this goes? :P |
Hmm.. whose pages, yours or mine? :p |
It's all about how one chooses to interpret the term "pages". |
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03/12/2007 05:14:25 PM · #15 |
I thought Switzerland required it's citizens to own and maintain a gun as part of it's standing militia?
2 pages...then dies... (4 if Matthew posts too)
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03/12/2007 05:15:21 PM · #16 |
@spaz -- it's not interpretation, it is spin. :P
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03/12/2007 05:19:21 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by chimericvisions:
The most amusing thing I see about the statistics quoted is that Switzerland, for all its gun laws, has a murder ratio of almost exactly the same as the US, per capita. |
That's the number of gun related Suicides not murders.
There are three stats Unitentional, Murder and Suicide
Message edited by author 2007-03-12 17:22:45. |
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03/12/2007 05:22:37 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Also, there is something that neither Canada, Switzerland, Scotland, England or Japan have that serious affects crime rates. It's called "Mexico". As much as 90% of the crime of many cities is attributable to illegal aliens.
Also remember that most of the gun murders occur with "illegal" guns. So banning guns is not likely to change those statistics. |
I think that this is a horribly bigoted thing to say, because the statistics of the people being prosecuted for violent crimes simply do not support that statement. The vast majority of people incarcerated in US jails and prisons are Caucasian and African-American. In some places the Spanish prison population is higher, but from what I've read/seen it is no higher than local population demographics would suggest.
"Illegal" guns are quite often made here in the US. They're just stolen. We export death, for the most part, not import it. The numbers of imported weapons are astronomically smaller than those that are manufactured here.
(And yes, I am both a gun owner and licensed for concealed-carry, so I'm definitely not an anti-gun nut.) |
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03/12/2007 05:28:50 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by chimericvisions:
The most amusing thing I see about the statistics quoted is that Switzerland, for all its gun laws, has a murder ratio of almost exactly the same as the US, per capita. |
That's the number of gun related Suicides not murders.
There are three stats Unitentional, Murder and Suicide |
If you say so, but your post disagrees
Unintentional ---- Homicide ---- Suicide
Switzerland 0.50 (1999) 5.78 (1998) -
Unintentional = 0.5
Homicide = 5.78
Suicide = - |
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03/12/2007 05:31:12 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Let's here it for all the Washington DC militias who have had their rights stomped by this unfair law! |
What do militias have to do with this discussion Doc? As far as I know, there are no "citizen" militias operational in DC. For those perpetrating crime in DC, gun laws have never had any real effect. Gun control laws are almost impossible to enforce on the people who commit violent crimes.
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03/12/2007 05:40:57 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
So where are all the illegal guns coming from ? |
They come from manufacturers. So if we do away with gun manufacturers, we do away with guns. Right? Hey! Maybe we could sue them into non-existence.
But, once we eliminate all guns and manufacturers we will still have violent people. Remember that the human mind is the most dangerous weapon on the face of this planet. We have no laws regulating its use. Strange. Because true evil originates in the human mind. Guns are merely inanimate objects.
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03/12/2007 05:51:33 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by chimericvisions:
Originally posted by yanko:
Anybody want to place bets as to how many pages this goes? :P |
Hmm.. whose pages, yours or mine? :p |
It's all about how one chooses to interpret the term "pages". |
Mine dammit! :P
Hint: 25 posts per page.
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03/12/2007 06:00:07 PM · #23 |
The thing with DC is that if you wanted a gun you could just hop the border to Virgina and buy one there then head on back to DC.
And a gun is a tool, blaming a gun for crime is like blaming a car for a drunk driving accident. |
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03/12/2007 06:04:50 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by "fir3bird":
They come from manufacturers. So if we do away with gun manufacturers, we do away with guns. Right? Hey! Maybe we could sue them into non-existence. |
Then gun manufacturers will just move out of the U.S. Many guns are manufactured in Russia, China, and elsewhere. Not much stops them.
There is a lot of question because in a lot of cases the authorities are not allowed to pursue information regarding the legality status of illegal immigrants due to sanctuary laws.
â€Â¢ In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.
â€Â¢ A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater.
â€Â¢ The leadership of the Columbia Lil’ Cycos gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.’s MacArthur Park, was about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former assistant U.S. attorney Luis Li. Francisco Martinez, a Mexican Mafia member and an illegal alien, controlled the gang from prison, while 'serving' time for felonious reentry following deportation.
//www.city-journal.org/html/14_1_the_illegal_alien.html
On any given day, Los Angeles County jails have about 19,500 inmates, including about 4,500 gang members, said Steve Whitmore, a Sheriff's Department spokesman. He said up to 25% of the inmates in the jail are believed to be foreign nationals.
//www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-gangs10mar10,0,7829803.story?coll=la-home-headlines
//www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html
What in part makes it easy for illegals to perpetrate is that they can essentially flee without recourse. If they make it to Mexico they're safe. Then they come back illegally a few years later to a different part of the U.S. Often perpetrating the same crimes over and over again.
That's not to say that most of the crime problem in the U.S. is not simply the U.S. But illegal immigrant murders, rapes and violent crimes is at staggering highs.
Message edited by author 2007-03-12 18:25:03. |
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03/12/2007 06:52:48 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by genghis:
1997 statistics:
USA population- 270,000,0000
Deaths by gun violence- 32,436
Japan population- 125,000,000
Deaths by gun violence- 22 |
You're point? ???
Now, let's address the above statistics. Can you also provide the number of deaths in Japan by knifing versus the number of similar deaths in the U.S. (I'll wager that there is a similar ratio.)
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2006 statistics:
USA population- 300,000,000
total # of murders gun/knife or otherwise: 12,658
Japan population- 127,000,000
total # of murders gun/knife or otherwise: 637 |
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