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 11/20/2003 12:22:06 PM · #1
OK. I've had a business license, I've kept my receipts and I have a steady job with good income and benefits. I enjoy what I do for a living but I want to increase my current income by making my photography profitable. I figure I have about 25-30 years until I retire and I'd like to build up a decent sized studio over the next few years so that I can eventually retire from my career as a programmer into a 2nd career as a photographer. I think I've done a lot of legwork in setting up my accounts and handling the business side of this endeavor. My problem is a more esoteric one. When do I begin requiring money for photos? You can review some of my work here on DPC or check my signature at the end of this post to see other work I've done in portraiture. I'm still not satisfied that I consistently produce enough quality photos to tell someone that they must pay me $50 or $100 to secure a photo session with me. Anyone have a decent principle that helped them to say, "Now. Now I'm satisfied with my work and I deserve to be paid for the quality of work I provide my customers."?

I just went with a co-worker to take photos of his 5 & 6 year old boys and out of about 150 photos (just using the flash unit on the camera) we got 8-10 that he is planning on printing (after retouching them for color, blemishes, etc). Is that a reasonable amount of finished products for 30-45 minutes of work with two young boys? Would a more seasoned, responsible photog have taken less photos in less time and produced as many or more finished quality shots?

Yeah, the server crashed. I just edited my post to include my signature links. Sorry 'bout that.

Thanks for your input,

Kev

Message edited by author 2003-11-20 12:57:55.
 11/20/2003 12:28:54 PM · #2
Your link //www.kevinriggs.com/photography.asp doesn't work, it requires a password.
 11/20/2003 12:31:09 PM · #3
Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing. I can't see any of your stuff.
 11/20/2003 12:32:05 PM · #4
Just checked your images, a little fill flash on the girls would be helpful (just a comment). As far as when to start charging, you can't do this for free forever. Charge now, just let your price reflect your experience. If you're not sure how to start, maybe have them cover your costs (film/processing/time) as a "sitting fee", and then pay for the prints that they order (costX2 or costX3) until you're more comfortable with it. 150 shots for 8-10 images does seem like quite a few, but young boys can be difficult and even the most experienced photographer can shoot more than this. What's important is that you got the 8-10 good ones. Don't worry about the rest just chalk it up to experience.
 11/20/2003 12:38:11 PM · #5
My philosophy.

A person who has never dug a ditch before, is asked by a neighbor to dig a ditch. He has to provide his own shovel and use his own thoughts to engineer the ditch digging process.

One person might consider this an opportunity for "experience" and do it for free. While another person might consider this simply as a purchase of their labor and require payment.

I think that even the 1st person, desiring the experience, is not going to dig too many ditches before they start charging.

Message edited by author 2003-11-20 12:40:06.
 11/20/2003 01:14:55 PM · #6
not a pro - but i dont think that is unresonable time/useable results

one thing i would take into account- is that time in studio is only part of the job
as you mentioned you had to go through them with the customer - and touch them up - then you have to print them.

11/20/2003 01:17:01 PM · #7
my philosophy:

do it for free until you get really good at it. you want people to say 'wow' when they look at your shots.

use those free sessions to practice and hone your skills. carefully listen to and use criticism.

Once you get to the point where people are 'raving' about your work, then you can start to charge.

if you try to charge before that, you might find that you have very few customers...

Message edited by author 2003-11-20 13:18:58.
 11/20/2003 01:20:16 PM · #8
The other part is that once you start charging, it might prove difficult to move to a different price bracket - people expect to pay what the last person paid
 11/20/2003 01:22:22 PM · #9
Originally posted by KevinRiggs:
OK. I've had a business license, I've kept my receipts and I have a steady job with good income and benefits. I enjoy what I do for a living but I want to increase my current income by making my photography profitable. I figure I have about 25-30 years until I retire and I'd like to build up a decent sized studio over the next few years so that I can eventually retire from my career as a programmer into a 2nd career as a photographer. I think I've done a lot of legwork in setting up my accounts and handling the business side of this endeavor. My problem is a more esoteric one. When do I begin requiring money for photos? You can review some of my work here on DPC or check my signature at the end of this post to see other work I've done in portraiture. I'm still not satisfied that I consistently produce enough quality photos to tell someone that they must pay me $50 or $100 to secure a photo session with me. Anyone have a decent principle that helped them to say, "Now. Now I'm satisfied with my work and I deserve to be paid for the quality of work I provide my customers."?

I just went with a co-worker to take photos of his 5 & 6 year old boys and out of about 150 photos (just using the flash unit on the camera) we got 8-10 that he is planning on printing (after retouching them for color, blemishes, etc). Is that a reasonable amount of finished products for 30-45 minutes of work with two young boys? Would a more seasoned, responsible photog have taken less photos in less time and produced as many or more finished quality shots?

Yeah, the server crashed. I just edited my post to include my signature links. Sorry 'bout that.

Thanks for your input,

Kev


When your work is consistently the same or better quality as photographers who do similar work in your market.

A seasoned pro would spend the necessary time and exposures to get enough quality shots to make his client happy. 150 exposures to get 8-10 quality shots is not too bad, but pushing the shutter release is cheap (basically free with digital) compared with either giving the client a substandard product or having to re-shoot to get a good product to them. Typically, a client will not be happy about a reshoot and certainly will not pay again.
 11/20/2003 01:24:11 PM · #10
I would set the price you would like to charge in the future as your base price. Then you can discount that rate (however much you need to) until your comfortable with charging it. That way, they think they are getting a great deal, and are more appreciative of the end product. If you do it for free, they will treat you and your work as if it's not worth anything...
 11/20/2003 01:26:51 PM · #11
Yes and no. 'Time for Prints' is a standard convention in model photography. It gives both parties works for their portfolio and the photographer practice at the work. Good photogs are made not born.

I stand by the advice that once you get a portfolio that makes people WANT to be photo'd by you, that's when you should charge.

Originally posted by MeThoS:
I would set the price you would like to charge in the future as your base price. Then you can discount that rate (however much you need to) until your comfortable with charging it. That way, they think they are getting a great deal, and are more appreciative of the end product. If you do it for free, they will treat you and your work as if it's not worth anything...

 11/20/2003 01:56:58 PM · #12
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
Yes and no. 'Time for Prints' is a standard convention in model photography. It gives both parties works for their portfolio and the photographer practice at the work. Good photogs are made not born.

I stand by the advice that once you get a portfolio that makes people WANT to be photo'd by you, that's when you should charge.

Originally posted by MeThoS:
I would set the price you would like to charge in the future as your base price. Then you can discount that rate (however much you need to) until your comfortable with charging it. That way, they think they are getting a great deal, and are more appreciative of the end product. If you do it for free, they will treat you and your work as if it's not worth anything...


I do that all the time, but that's not what he's talking about. He's talking about portraits. You can get by using models and swapping services because they can help your portfolio out. But (in common portraiture) if you have to take a photo of an ugly person, you can't really throw that in your portfolio. ;D
 11/20/2003 02:19:39 PM · #13
my point was you need a portfolio of good shots to begin with. the best way to do that is work for free at the beginning (and of course, it goes without saying to be selective about who you work with :D )


Originally posted by MeThoS:
But (in common portraiture) if you have to take a photo of an ugly person, you can't really throw that in your portfolio. ;D

 11/20/2003 02:46:06 PM · #14
[Anyone have a decent principle that helped them to say, "Now. Now I'm satisfied with my work and I deserve to be paid for the quality of work I provide my customers."?

Kevin,

I'm not sure "artists" are ever satisfied with their work, however, you are good enough to be paid.
 11/20/2003 03:12:10 PM · #15
Originally posted by Flash:
[Anyone have a decent principle that helped them to say, "Now. Now I'm satisfied with my work and I deserve to be paid for the quality of work I provide my customers."?

Kevin,

I'm not sure "artists" are ever satisfied with their work, however, you are good enough to be paid.


I always made sure I made money even if it was friends or family. If you don't feel comfortable charging for your time, then mark up the prints for your time and handling.
 11/20/2003 03:44:05 PM · #16
Originally posted by Gordon:
The other part is that once you start charging, it might prove difficult to move to a different price bracket - people expect to pay what the last person paid


Gordon makes an excellent point - I've suffered from this in my business and I was told this same thing when I started out low by a friend... I didn't listen and now that my prices are higher, I have to keep giving discounts because most of my customers come from referrals.

11/20/2003 04:14:14 PM · #17
I would agree with Gordon and tfaust. Once you start charging, set your price at the end level. It's always much easier to lower prices than to raise them in any business.

Also, I would echo the thought of not charging while you are building a portfolio. Once you can show some "wow" shots, then charge.
 11/20/2003 04:41:10 PM · #18
Originally posted by Kneeforu:
Also, I would echo the thought of not charging while you are building a portfolio. Once you can show some "wow" shots, then charge.


Yep, I second that! I did at least do this and it helped a lot. Although my business is not photography (yet), I still offer creative services, so it's much the same.

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