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02/19/2007 06:07:17 PM · #1 |
Would i be able to get good results if i set up a mini studio with strobes?
I saw a smith victor light kit kit on amazon, is that a good cont. light system for a starter kit?
And how about this, I have two 1000 watt stanley outdoor halogen worklight kits. Wonder if i could strap 2 reflector umbrella's to them. But those rigs give off so much heat, i may end up burning my house down lol.
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02/19/2007 06:29:39 PM · #2 |
The problem with continuous lighting is they all give off heat, strobes are really a better choice for studio-type work. have you considered buying a couple of flash units and using them as slaves?
Have a look here The Strobist
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02/19/2007 06:30:42 PM · #3 |
I tried the halogen trick, not to bad but the heat was a bit much. I have just got a couple of 300W strobes, there is no way I would go back to continuous lighting.
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02/19/2007 06:32:32 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by idnic:
The problem with continuous lighting is they all give off heat, strobes are really a better choice for studio-type work. have you considered buying a couple of flash units and using them as slaves?
Have a look here The Strobist |
The newer fluorescent lights don't give of so much heat, but they do suck all the money out of your bank account.
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02/19/2007 06:40:07 PM · #5 |
We all think those halogen work lights are really, really bright. We are all wrong. A strobe is probably somewhere between ten and a hundred times as bright as those work lights. I'm just guessing here, but I could even be low.
The halogens also put off a wicked yellow light that can mess with your final result even if you do WB compensation. Don't even think about using the work lights AND a flash because they WB nightmares from such a shot are just too much to bear.
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02/19/2007 06:48:38 PM · #6 |
Not to mention ... if you are shooting people they will have plenty of sweat and no pupils ... LOL
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02/19/2007 07:46:04 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by idnic:
The problem with continuous lighting is they all give off heat, strobes are really a better choice for studio-type work. have you considered buying a couple of flash units and using them as slaves?
Have a look here The Strobist |
thanks a lot cindi!
At first glance, some very useful info on that link. Going to take some time to go through it.
Think I'm going to start the studio thing with strobes.
As for that halogen thing, I tried some shots with a banana. Long story short, the banana's almost brown.
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02/19/2007 08:01:36 PM · #8 |
I am in the other camp.
Mainly because I don't own any strobes. Mainly because I have access to standard studio lighting.
None of my work is with a strobe. I either use natural lighting, or standard lighting.
The thing about the heat is simple to fix. I call it the 'on/off' switch. I set my lights up, I tweak when need to, I turn on when shooting, I turn off when not shooting.
And, as usual, my signature remark to people looking for a cheap way to light is this..."Home Depot is the poor mans lighting source."
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02/20/2007 02:08:18 AM · #9 |
The main problem with continuous light is how little light it gives when compared to strobes. There are other problems of course, things like heat, flicker and inconsistent white-balance, but the low light makes them very expensive if you want to work at decent light levels.
Here is a great article, "Why use strobes? Aren't incandescent lights cheaper and easier?", that discusses the power difference between the two options in great detail.
David
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02/20/2007 07:53:37 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by David.C:
The main problem with continuous light is how little light it gives when compared to strobes. There are other problems of course, things like heat, flicker and inconsistent white-balance, but the low light makes them very expensive if you want to work at decent light levels.
Here is a great article, "Why use strobes? Aren't incandescent lights cheaper and easier?", that discusses the power difference between the two options in great detail.
David |
I am sorry, but I really have to interject.
The article is humorous.
Yes, alot of your lower to high end strobes can create a brillient flash. Mainly because they have gas filled globes. Opposed to tungsten, or quartz.
Your lower end strobes have the tungsten and quartz equals, and do a good job for what they are built for.
First of all, a tungsten lamp compared to a strobe...no comparison.
The heat issue. We have heat issues at work too. We simply turn off the lights when the crew, or the light itself are not working.
Dimmer than a strobe? Well, yeah. A strobe is designed to give a burst of light. However, I can equal that burst with a tungsten light. It's about Wattage, not Voltage. The globes in tungsten and in strobes DO NOT have a finite life span. Dimming from an OLD globe is possible, but also you will see a color differance in the globe itself when turned on.
Flicker? Well a couple thoughts here. First of all, if you are using city power, and there is a flicker problem with tungsten lamps, You best get the candles out because the whole area around your neighborhood is flickering.
Secondly, if you are on a generator and you have a flicker problem with your tungsten lamps, get some gasoline, or diesel.
Thirdly, if you are using HMI's and you have a flicker problem, then something in the HMI system is about to fail, or there is not enough voltage comming from that generator.
Inconsistant white balance comes from any source. Again, globes do not have a finite life span. The more you use your light, weather it is a strobe, or a standard studio light, or a light from Home Depot. Eventually, that globe will begin to age, and the KELVIN will shift on that globe.
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02/20/2007 11:16:06 AM · #11 |
Also another problem i'll need to overcome is WB. How do u use those Grey Cards? Do u just manually set WB on the camera and point at the card?
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02/20/2007 02:50:32 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by American_Horse:
... The heat issue. We have heat issues at work too. We simply turn off the lights when the crew, or the light itself are not working. ... |
Doesn't help when they are in use. It doesn't keep the model from sweating or squinting.
Originally posted by American_Horse:
... Dimmer than a strobe? Well, yeah. A strobe is designed to give a burst of light. However, I can equal that burst with a tungsten light. It's about Wattage, not Voltage. The globes in tungsten and in strobes DO NOT have a finite life span. Dimming from an OLD globe is possible, but also you will see a color differance in the globe itself when turned on. ... |
The article is discussing Wattage, not Voltage; specifically, the conversion from Wattage to Watt-Seconds.
If they DO NOT have a finite life span, is their life span infinate?
Having to wait for the globe to warm up somewhat negates the heat saving value of turning them off, doesn't it?
Originally posted by American_Horse:
... Flicker? Well a couple thoughts here. First of all, if you are using city power, and there is a flicker problem with tungsten lamps, You best get the candles out because the whole area around your neighborhood is flickering.
Secondly, if you are on a generator and you have a flicker problem with your tungsten lamps, get some gasoline, or diesel.
Thirdly, if you are using HMI's and you have a flicker problem, then something in the HMI system is about to fail, or there is not enough voltage comming from that generator. ... |
With regards to flicker. That comment was made with reference to the use of fluorescent bulbs due to their reduced heat and power usage. I should have made that more clear.
Originally posted by American_Horse:
... Inconsistant white balance comes from any source. Again, globes do not have a finite life span. The more you use your light, weather it is a strobe, or a standard studio light, or a light from Home Depot. Eventually, that globe will begin to age, and the KELVIN will shift on that globe. |
Yes the WB of both strobes and constant lighting change as the bulb ages, but that is the point. With constant lighting, more bulbs are needed to get the same output. Unless each bulb is the same age (and they don't all age the same), the use of constant lighting makes the problem of keeping all the light sources the same WB much worse. Yes, two different strobes are likely to have different WBs, but there are far fewer cause the problem.
David
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02/20/2007 03:35:51 PM · #13 |
I think the WB issue with halogens is not that they change as they age, but they change over minutes to hours as they warm up. Now I don't think it's a huge change and most WB correct can handle this, but the WB temperature will be different in the first minute compared to say 30 minutes with them on.
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02/20/2007 03:59:36 PM · #14 |
I seem to be falling more and more into the 'available light' camp.
I was shooting with two triple headed tungsten Target floor lamps last night, beautiful light. Week before, I was using monolights. Other times window light, or small strobes.
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02/20/2007 05:23:59 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by dmadden:
Also another problem i'll need to overcome is WB. How do u use those Grey Cards? Do u just manually set WB on the camera and point at the card? |
Bumping!
Ok! I hijacked my own thread, but still my thread it is :)
I await my answer
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02/20/2007 05:25:58 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by dmadden:
Originally posted by dmadden:
Also another problem i'll need to overcome is WB. How do u use those Grey Cards? Do u just manually set WB on the camera and point at the card? |
Bumping!
Ok! I hijacked my own thread, but still my thread it is :)
I await my answer |
With strobes you put your cameras WB to flash. With continuous you set the WB with a grey card or with something solid white. Custom WB.
ETA: The how to set the custom WB should be in your manual.
Message edited by author 2007-02-20 17:29:22. |
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02/20/2007 07:23:13 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by David.C:
Originally posted by American_Horse:
... The heat issue. We have heat issues at work too. We simply turn off the lights when the crew, or the light itself are not working. ... |
Doesn't help when they are in use. It doesn't keep the model from sweating or squinting.
Especially in a small, cramped room, wiathout windows, or any fans, or air.
Originally posted by American_Horse:
... Dimmer than a strobe? Well, yeah. A strobe is designed to give a burst of light. However, I can equal that burst with a tungsten light. It's about Wattage, not Voltage. The globes in tungsten and in strobes DO NOT have a finite life span. Dimming from an OLD globe is possible, but also you will see a color differance in the globe itself when turned on. ... |
The article is discussing Wattage, not Voltage; specifically, the conversion from Wattage to Watt-Seconds.
If they DO NOT have a finite life span, is their life span infinate?
What???
Having to wait for the globe to warm up somewhat negates the heat saving value of turning them off, doesn't it?
Ahhhhh....warming up a globe? or flourecent? HMI's systems yes, that is correct. But, electricity is instantanious. Unless they are on a dimmer system, the tungsten, quartz, or gas in the globe will pretty much get warm immeadiatly. Flourecents will also get warm after a while.
If you don't believe me, turn on one of your household globes from one of your lamps in your living room. As soon as you turn it on, ask yourself if it is hot or cold.
Originally posted by American_Horse:
... Flicker? Well a couple thoughts here. First of all, if you are using city power, and there is a flicker problem with tungsten lamps, You best get the candles out because the whole area around your neighborhood is flickering.
Secondly, if you are on a generator and you have a flicker problem with your tungsten lamps, get some gasoline, or diesel.
Thirdly, if you are using HMI's and you have a flicker problem, then something in the HMI system is about to fail, or there is not enough voltage comming from that generator. ... |
With regards to flicker. That comment was made with reference to the use of fluorescent bulbs due to their reduced heat and power usage. I should have made that more clear.
Don't kid yourself. Flo's get warm after a while. Not like tungsten, or quartz, or gas globes, but they do get warm. And, if they flicker, it is usually becasue the ballast is going bad.
The blackended ends of a Flo tube is a dead giveaway that a ballast is dying.
Tubes go bad as well, but they don't flicker. They just have a hard time igniting.
Originally posted by American_Horse:
... Inconsistant white balance comes from any source. Again, globes do not have a finite life span. The more you use your light, weather it is a strobe, or a standard studio light, or a light from Home Depot. Eventually, that globe will begin to age, and the KELVIN will shift on that globe. |
Yes the WB of both strobes and constant lighting change as the bulb ages, but that is the point. With constant lighting, more bulbs are needed to get the same output. Unless each bulb is the same age (and they don't all age the same), the use of constant lighting makes the problem of keeping all the light sources the same WB much worse. Yes, two different strobes are likely to have different WBs, but there are far fewer cause the problem.
A 1200w strobe and a 1200w HMI have the same throw of light. The differance is that the stobes mechanics is set up for constant re-ignition, where as the HMI needs to warm up, and does not like being shut off and on constantly.
A 2k strobe has the same throw as a 2k tungsten lamp. Again, the strobes mechanics are set up differantly than a tungsten lamp. Tungsten does not need to warm up however. The only tungsten lamps that need to warm up are the 20kw and the 24kw lamps. But, I seriously doubt anyone in this forum would be able to afford such lamps.
I don't work with strobes much, but, the wear and tear of all globes is significant. Especially gas filled ones. It all has to do with friction, and the flow of electrons. Globes weather they are strobes or tungsten, or quartz, or flo's, or HMI, or Zenon, or sodium vapor, or whatever have to deal with the fact that electricity creates heat, and heat is what drives the globe to eventually die off.
David |
Message edited by author 2007-02-20 19:24:56.
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02/20/2007 07:48:30 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
With strobes you put your cameras WB to flash. |
Actually for most studio strobes daylight balance works better than flash.
Originally posted by dmadden:
Also another problem i'll need to overcome is WB. How do u use those Grey Cards? Do u just manually set WB on the camera and point at the card? |
That particular set has white, black and grey in it. For a portriat session, the best way to use those is to have the model hold it for one shot. Ofcourse you'll want to use a flash meter to get proper exposure, first, if you are using strobes.
Now with this greycard in the first shot, you PP the shot setting levels or curves to each of the highlights, midtone, and shadows (white, gray, black respectively). You then save that curve (or levels) and then apply it to the rest of the images in the series. You'll get a very consistent look this way and near perfect WB every time.
If you are doing still-lifes, you can just place it in the frame for the first shot.
A quick way to PP the rest of the images in the series is to keep the "calibration" shot open and just drag the curves or levels adjustment layer onto the next photo you are working on.
Message edited by author 2007-02-20 20:03:25.
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02/20/2007 07:53:42 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
With strobes you put your cameras WB to flash. |
Actually for most studio strobes daylight balance works better than flash.
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Makes sense it's only 500 degrees kelvin difference. Daylight is 5000K and most flashes are around 5500K. So I will give it a try! :-D |
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