New glass or light? - DPChallenge Forums

02/14/2007 03:46:33 PM · #1

I'm debating whether or not to get a 28mm 1.8 (or 30 1.4) lens or AlienBees "Digi Bee" light kit.

I have 2 available light lenses (50 1.8 and 85 1.8) but both are too long for indoors. The kit lens 18-55mm 3.5-5.6 is fine with plenty of light, but really needs to be stopped down to f8.

I would love to have the 28,50,85 in my bag, but I could really have some fun with some studio lighting. Right now I'm using a halogen workshop lamp and a couple of old clamp type lamps with regular light bulbs. These two photos were taken with that combination:

I have a 580EX Speedlite which I'm assuming could fire the bees? I also have a Manfrotto 3001BN/3030 tripod/head.

Any advice? What would you do? This is all for a hobby.

pamelasue

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

02/14/2007 03:59:17 PM · #2

that's a tough choice ... personally, I'd go with the lights ... I've wanted the Digi Bee kit for a while now ...

pineapple

Canon EOS-5D

02/14/2007 04:13:04 PM · #3

Perhaps buy a Canon Speedlight 580EX or 480.... Much more flexible for any type of activity. Get a Cannon trigger if you have the money.

fotomann_forever

02/14/2007 04:42:30 PM · #4

Personally I think you'd have more fun playing with the studio lights (Digibees). Learning creative lighting is FUN. :-)

Anyway, you said you thought you'd fire the Bees with the 580EX. No, you'd want to either directly connect one Bee to the camera (via a Hotshoe to PC adapter) or use a radio trigger. The reasons are: 1) preflash will trigger the slaves 2) Even without preflash, you want control of the light, not extraneous light spilling from the flash.

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

02/14/2007 05:16:37 PM · #5

To go all 850's I would need the st-e2 and another 580 for a 2 light setup ($550.00) and a couple of light stands. Also, since I'm learning I need modeling lights so I can see what is happening. I know you can model with the 580s but it uses so much power and I can't "see" that quickly with the flickering 580 modeling light. What I need to be able to do is have a patient model in the middle of the floor and move lights around everywhere. I'm assuming the bees have built in continuous lights?

fotomann_forever, I forgot about the preflash and your right even if I turned it off I wouldn't want spillage while I'm trying to learn. I'll go price some adapters and radio trigers.

I wouldn't mind having this either:
SP-Systems Excalibur Pro 1632 3 Light Kit - Includes: 1 SP3200 320 W/S, 1 SP1600 160 W/S Monolight, 1 SP920 100 W/S Slave Flash, Umbrellas, Sync Cord, Light Stands, 2 Cases - 580 Watt/Seconds Total

fotomann_forever

02/14/2007 05:24:13 PM · #6

Originally posted by jasonlprice:

I'll go price some adapters and radio trigers.

The adapters start at about $5-7 and radio trigger systems at about $85.

eschelar

Canon EOS-7D

02/15/2007 02:02:12 AM · #7

Just a note to add a rather pointless reminder that if you go radio, remember that Canon uses IR, not radio.

Also, you may find that a light meter might be a useful addition to that package. Don't know of a good cheap one right now...

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

02/15/2007 10:54:06 AM · #8

Thank you all for your comments...I'm still undecided but this morning I woke up leaning towards the glass. I think my decision is being influenced by a quest to do better in challenges (and thus get lights). It seems to me (and I'm new here and could be totally wrong) that most winning photos here are low ISO, stopped down, high shutter speed, studio light type shots. Meanwhile photos like the one below by Ed Clarke don't do as well (a great photo imo).

See thread (//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=542228)

I don't want that to influence my decision and I really think it would be great fun to play with lights like fotomann_forever says.

I wished I could get both but just don't have the funds.....

aKiwi

Canon EOS-7D

02/15/2007 11:30:48 AM · #9

I got the lights. I lovem.
You can use a 580 to trigger your studio lights. there are 2 methods.
1 set your 580 to Manual mode & if you don't want it to be part of the lighting setup dial it down to 1/125 th power.
OR, Press the * button (On Canon = read exposure) wait till your studio lights re charge, and then press the shutter.
I don't think that glass will be so usefull as you already have that range on your kit lens. With your new lights you can easily use it at F8

Fisher Price Kid-Tough Digital

02/15/2007 11:35:42 AM · #10

Thanks aKiwi, good advice and I love your paper picture by the way.

LalliSig

02/16/2007 04:56:37 PM · #11

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

I actually use the 580ex to light my flash in studio, use a radio trigger outdoors as the lights donÂ´t "notice" the flash.

I get around both issue 1) and 2) by setting it to manual and the power to 1/128 wich eliminates the preflash, has so low power it doesnÂ´t register (especially since I bounce it backwards).

I do use Bowens though and have no experience with Alienbees so they might work otherwise.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

02/16/2007 05:01:34 PM · #12

I've done the same thing to trigger a peanut slave connected to the studio strobes. The 580 has to be in manual mode and the 'off/master/slave' switch has to be in the 'off' mode.

Just set the power to 1/128th and you'll never see the flash, assuming reasonable strobe power.

LalliSig

Fisher Price Kid-Tough Digital

02/16/2007 05:07:54 PM · #13

Hi Jason, you wanted my advice so here goes. First off, keep in mind that I have NO experience with these Alien Bees lights but I have heard resonably good things.

For me personally IÂ´d say get both but start off with the lighting and get the lens later. The reason is that the lights will just do so much more for your photography, that is if you have a facility to use them (a studio or something like that) or want to bother carrying them around all the time. The ability to manually set up lighting will just do heaps more for you than an automated TTL system, like a couple of EX flashes and a transmitter.

The 28mm lens is great though, much better than people give it credit for and very useable at max aperture. Handles flare in the corners pretty poorly though and performs similarly to the 24-70 when those lenses have similar aperture so I mostly just used it when I needed a bigger aperture or wanted a smaller, ligther lens for some reason.

In short, lights now, lens later and give them time, although using manual lights like that is much easier than people usually think, at least for the basic stuff.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

02/16/2007 05:26:41 PM · #14

Get the lights. AlienBees will make your kit lens usable and improve the results you can get with your other lenses. A 28mm lens won't. An AlienBees Radio Flash remote and trigger (one of each) is $80, and they work great. That said, most of the time you don't need them (particularly indoors).

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

02/16/2007 06:45:19 PM · #15

For all the reasons others have offered, I say get the lights.

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

02/19/2007 12:18:52 PM · #16

Thanks all for your suggestions. I don't have a studio, I'll just be using available space in the house. The biggest area I have (and where I shoot most now) is about 10' x 12'. I don't have a permanent spot to leave lights set up so I need something that is quick to set up.

With all your suggestions I'm definitely leaning towards light. I just keep thinking that for the cost of the Alienbees or Excaliburs I could get cheap tungsten lights (Impact 3 light kit from BH) $ 209.95 and a Sigma 28 1.8 $269.00 (or canon 35 2.0) for about the same $.

That little voice in my head keeps saying "you get what you pay for"..

FireBird

02/19/2007 12:53:54 PM · #17

Originally posted by jasonlprice:

I have a 580EX Speedlite which I'm assuming could fire the bees? I also have a Manfrotto 3001BN/3030 tripod/head.

Why not just get a lightstand and reversible umbrella that'll fit the 580.
That and a gold and silver reflector. Then get the 28. Best of both worlds and you can save to get the Bees later.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

02/19/2007 01:09:58 PM · #18

Originally posted by jasonlprice:

The tungsten lights are (IMO) all but useless for portraits. If you get AB's (or another strobe system) should you want to use tungsten lighting, nothing is stopping you from using the modeling lights for just that.

If you want lightweight/portable, you should look into Vivitar 285's with slaves and stands.

02/19/2007 01:31:45 PM · #19

Originally posted by fir3bird:

Originally posted by jasonlprice:

I have a 580EX Speedlite which I'm assuming could fire the bees? I also have a Manfrotto 3001BN/3030 tripod/head.

Why not just get a lightstand and reversible umbrella that'll fit the 580.
That and a gold and silver reflector. Then get the 28. Best of both worlds and you can save to get the Bees later.

I guess the reason I hadn't considered it is because I feel like I need a continous light for modeling because this will be my first studio lighting. I really have trouble seeing the modeling light of the 580 (not to mention battery drain), and I'd like to be able to study the light.

Maybe I could use a regular lamp clamped to a light stand for a modeling light (that is what you do with the bees anyway right?).

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

02/19/2007 01:34:51 PM · #20

Originally posted by jasonlprice:

and I'd like to be able to study the light.

Do you have a laptop ? Can you shoot tethered? That way you can study the light all you like, slightly after the fact. Not ideal, but an option. If you care about the light direction, rather than power, you can do a couple of things - look from the perspective of the light - things you see will be lit, things you can't see will be in shadow. Or mount another light source at the same point.

Modeling lights on a strobe are better as they are usually directly inside the flash tube and also vary in power to show the relative ratios between different lights, but you can get by without them.

Message edited by author 2007-02-19 13:36:08.