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03/27/2007 11:58:08 PM · #176 |
Originally posted by Matthew:
Here is an amusing image illustrating the difference. |
Ah, thanks for sharing - quite a summary! :p |
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03/28/2007 12:20:48 AM · #177 |
Originally posted by RonB:
... And NOBODY understands why others can't understand or don't agree with THEIR position - because the evidence supporting THEIR position is so OBVIOUS. |
...sadly, "evidence" is woefully lacking in most of the comments made.
Ray
Message edited by author 2007-03-28 01:03:32. |
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03/28/2007 01:15:37 AM · #178 |
The truth is it WILL happen and I believe this all the way to the core of my being!
He does exist! (Yet he is not Jesus.) He will rule the entire world with an iron fist! (Yet, IMHO he is not Jesus.) He will not be locked up (for a very long time!) He will use technological trickery & more.
Rarely do I read fiction. Fact is much more mysterious & fascinating!
Try reading Revelation! in the New Living Translation! It will make a John Grisham novel read like a preschooler's board book...IMHO! :)
Message edited by author 2007-03-30 12:04:23.
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04/17/2007 11:54:15 PM · #179 |
Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Since Christianity began, how many NEW religions have there been, that are widely accepted by a large following? I wouldn't count the Mormons in this, because they are an offshoot of Christianity. I can only think of a couple offhand, and they go WAY back also. There's definitely been a dearth of "new" religions that catch on. Why is that?
R. |
lol! I have an answer for that but.. I can't, cause the pre-requiste would be to believe in something I know nobody here does.. there is no reason for me explain anything that no one believes in the first case..
I really have stopped making any sense.. |
No, explain it, I would be very intereseted (sp?) in knowing what you were thinking...By the way I am not of the Christian faith....Just for the sake of knowing ....
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04/20/2007 09:20:54 PM · #180 |
Originally posted by 777STAN:
The truth is it WILL happen and I believe this all the way to the core of my being!
...
Try reading Revelation! in the New Living Translation! It will make a John Grisham novel read like a preschooler's board book...IMHO! :) |
I have been thinking about the subject of this thread quite a bit recently.
My point of irritation is that if you are a strong believer in most religions, you believe that this life is all in preparation for a life of eternal bliss (or damnation - not that many people seem to believe that is where they are headed, even if they believe that is where most other people are headed). The contrasting POV is that this is the life one has, and one should make the most of it.
A true believer should presumably be looking forward with great anticipation to their death and the start of their eternal and blissful afterlife. But bizarrely they do not believe not enough to try and kick it off early. Why is that? Why does any believer lead a healthy lifestyle and prolong this life unnecessarily. Taking it further, why not support suicide and murder (why not? If you are Christian, belief in Jesus will automatically save you??)? On this reasoning, the acts of suicide bombers should be recognised as the great triumphs of belief over reason that they represent.
The alternative is that this is our one life and we need to make the most of it. It is not unlimited and quite precious - perhaps too precious to spend our time praying and going to places of worship etc and persecuting certain other groups of people because our particular god (or his human interpreters) "told" us to do so.
I think that deep down many people do not *really* believe in god. They may want to believe and be comforted by it, but if they were to *really* believe they would act differently - starting with celebrating and embracing death as the start of their eternal life. Rather, they take the reverse of Pascal's wager by risking that there is no god - and living this life to a reasonably full degree.
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04/21/2007 03:01:22 PM · #181 |
Originally posted by Matthew:
I have been thinking about the subject of this thread quite a bit recently.
My point of irritation is that if you are a strong believer in most religions, you believe that this life is all in preparation for a life of eternal bliss (or damnation - not that many people seem to believe that is where they are headed, even if they believe that is where most other people are headed). The contrasting POV is that this is the life one has, and one should make the most of it.
A true believer should presumably be looking forward with great anticipation to their death and the start of their eternal and blissful afterlife. But bizarrely they do not believe not enough to try and kick it off early. Why is that? Why does any believer lead a healthy lifestyle and prolong this life unnecessarily. Taking it further, why not support suicide and murder (why not? If you are Christian, belief in Jesus will automatically save you??)? On this reasoning, the acts of suicide bombers should be recognised as the great triumphs of belief over reason that they represent.
The alternative is that this is our one life and we need to make the most of it. It is not unlimited and quite precious - perhaps too precious to spend our time praying and going to places of worship etc and persecuting certain other groups of people because our particular god (or his human interpreters) "told" us to do so.
I think that deep down many people do not *really* believe in god. They may want to believe and be comforted by it, but if they were to *really* believe they would act differently - starting with celebrating and embracing death as the start of their eternal life. Rather, they take the reverse of Pascal's wager by risking that there is no god - and living this life to a reasonably full degree. |
Matthew, the questions you raise are not new - and especially not new to true Christians ( those who are "born again" ). In fact, the Apostle Paul spoke of his own conflict with just such a question in the book of Philipians. In Chapter 1, verses 21-26 he writes:
"For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith, so that through my being with you again your joy in Christ Jesus will overflow on account of me."
The reason to NOT take his own life, even if it would hasten his being with Christ in Heaven was because he knew that the greater good required that he remain to serve others, even if doing so came at great personal expense. Paul teaches that each believer has work to accomplish in his/her earthly life, and that this work is important. Ephesians 2 verse 10 says:
"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
If we were to take our own lives, we would NOT be doing the good works that God has ordained for us to do.
Second Timothy Chapter 6, verses 16-17 says:
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."
What would be the purpose of being thoroughly equipped, if no good works were to result due to the believer taking his/her own life?
Not to mention the fact that remaining, and doing good works, has eternal consequence for the believer, as explained in 1 Corinthians chapter 3, verses 11-15:
"For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames."
If, as Scripture indicates, Heavenly rewards are apportioned in accordance with the quality of one's work on earth, then obviously taking one's own life reduces his/her ability to contribute to their Heavenly account ( not that that ought to be the goal, because if it is, that motive would automatically negate its benefit ).
For what it's worth, one of our young friends, a believer, did, indeed, take his own life a few years ago, at just 18 years of age. He left behind a note saying that he could no longer bear to be apart from his Lord. So, it does happen.
Message edited by author 2007-04-21 15:07:43. |
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