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10/30/2003 07:48:21 PM · #1 |
what is helpful anyway? are we obligated to check that box to satisfy people? what if i disagree with what they may consider helpful? if i receive a comment that has in some way made me think that yes, i could have done that to improve the quality of my shot then i will tick the helpful box. thanks but no thanks, I'LL be the one to decide if the comment was helpful to ME.
it is my opinion that some people check that box too much. if i say "nice colours", or "great border" - i don't expect that someone tick the o-so glorious "helpful" box for me, i was just acknowledging the fact that their photo contains some nice colours. thats it. |
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10/30/2003 08:42:54 PM · #2 |
I saw the comment that probably prompted you to start this thread. I had another one from someone yesterday who was upset cause I checked off a comment someone made that he didn't think I should have. I ended up emailing him to tell him she has emailed me personally about the photo and it is my right to decide who should and shouldn't have there comments checked off.
My thing is if you agree or can see some help with the comment the person made shouldn't it be your right to decide if it should be checked off or not. I am not going to check a comment of someone's if the comment is one I don't agree with or I feel they missed my whole idea with the comment they left.
I used to think that check box was important but after the comment I got this week I am having trouble checking the box in the current challenges. |
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10/30/2003 08:58:02 PM · #3 |
To me:
If someone says "Nice" then it's not helpful
If someone says "Nice Colours" then it is helpful, because it tells me what about my photo appeals to them, so I can take that and try to use it in my other entries too.
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10/30/2003 09:59:39 PM · #4 |
I think that if a commenter puts time and effort into critiquing your image (and is typed with tact), then it should be marked as helpful. Really, checking a comment as helpful is the only way to say "hey, thanks for taking the time to tell me what you thought about my image". Even if you don't agree with what they say, at least they put some effort into looking at your picture.
If you want meaningful comments, it's the least you can do (imho).
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10/30/2003 10:29:24 PM · #5 |
| Until I can find a better way, I mark *all* comments as being helpful. Not that I find them so, only by doing that, I can keep a record of which comments are new or that I haven't overlooked. |
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10/30/2003 10:45:33 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by Koriyama:
Until I can find a better way, I mark *all* comments as being helpful. Not that I find them so, only by doing that, I can keep a record of which comments are new or that I haven't overlooked. |
i believe that defeats the purpose entirely. are you getting so many comments that you cannot keep track of them? i would hope that people do not do that for me. |
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10/30/2003 10:55:02 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by jackditch:
Originally posted by Koriyama:
Until I can find a better way, I mark *all* comments as being helpful. Not that I find them so, only by doing that, I can keep a record of which comments are new or that I haven't overlooked. |
i believe that defeats the purpose entirely. i would hope that people do not do that for me. |
I agree with you. I'd like to see a system where I can keep track of comments and separately mark them as being helpful.
Your point about the purpose of checking appears valid. However, checking or not is so subjective that I'd challenge you to find a genuine, single 'purpose' anyway.
I tick the box because I read the comment and ticking is "helpful" for me for my records. Now, you can't complain about that, can you?
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10/30/2003 10:55:25 PM · #8 |
I usually mark comments as helpful if I think it helps me understand what aspects of my photograph the commenter likes or dislikes. Really, the only ones that are not "helpful" are ones that are totally vague. Like: "This sucks" or "Crap!!!" or "Nice" those types of comments do not get marked by me as "helpful".
Message edited by author 2003-10-30 22:55:59.
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10/31/2003 06:24:21 AM · #9 |
Oho, I hadn't realised that this thread was in motion as a result of one of my comments.
It drives me crazy when I give a long, diplomatic and considered comment for someone to single it out as not helpful (where many of the other comments are marked as helpful).
I totally agree that short comments such as 'very nice' are not really that helpful. In the picture that this thread is about, I noticed that there were some longish comments full of suggestions.
Seeing as this issue is now in a public forum, I'll get specific.
What is wrong with dr rick's comment for example? It seems to me discourteous to be quite that harsh in withholding thanks for the time and thought that goes into leaving comments.
I'm sure we're all agreed here that receiving many comments is a good thing, and seeing as we're a community here I think that good manners should be encouraged.
I see adding photos to my favourites as a way of spreading good feelings around this community. As I've said, it's a shame you can only have 200, as I had to clear out my list recently. If you're going to be really stingy about showing your appreciation of a comment, then I have to consider whether I can spare one of my few 'favourites' slots for you. |
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10/31/2003 06:54:58 AM · #10 |
| I find it helpful to see what people think about my picture Even if I dont agree with them, its good too see many opinions How else would you learn to improve, Its just one perosns opinion and that person took a time to write it down and I appriciate that |
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10/31/2003 06:59:25 AM · #11 |
Whether or not you agree with what a commenter has to say about your photo, he or she is stating a point of view that you otherwise might not have seen. Your art to you may be different from what other people are seeing, and receiving their comments SHOULD prompt you to expand your perception of what you have produced. Even if you have no intention of "fixing" whatever is suggested, at least you have been offered a something to think about and, in my opinion, that is always helpful.
As I writer, I have a group of proofreaders who regularly offer to me suggestions of things to change that, in their opinion, will enhance the work. Sometimes, I take their suggestions realizing that yes, this works much better if I tweak this or delete that. Sometimes I don't take their suggestions because I like it better my way. As the artist, I do have final say. But even when I don't agree, I always, ALWAYS appreciate the suggestions so that I can be sure that my choice of words is really the BEST choice of words to convey my art.
Even comments like "crap" or "nice" are helpful if you think about it. Sure, it would be better if they expanded upon those ideas (and geez, used a little tact!), but if someone says your photo is "crap," don't you have a tendency of going back and looking at it again to see why someone would say such a thing? If you see even one little detail that you now think to yourself, "It's not crap but maybe I could have done this or that to make it a little better," then you have already improved. It's not easy taking criticism, but it's what makes us better in our craft.
In my most humble little non-photographer opinion, if you want people to continue to critique your work, let them know you appreciate the time they are taking to do so (even when you don't agree). I know I'm more apt to want to comment on photos that I am rating when I see that those from the previous challenge have been marked helpful. And it's doubly delightful when I get a PM thanking me for my effort (Thanks, Bobster!)
Pidd |
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10/31/2003 07:58:49 AM · #12 |
i wasn't aware that anywhere in my thread i had singled you out Bobster?
dr rick are you upset? will you make it through your day today knowing that you havent received the glorious tick?
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10/31/2003 08:38:25 AM · #13 |
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10/31/2003 09:22:39 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by Pidd:
in my opinion, that is always helpful.
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But that's the key isn't it - in your opinion. The 'helpful?' box is a question to the photographer, not anyone else. Did you find this comment helpful ? Someone could give the most technical comment in the world and if it doesn't make sense or confuses the photographer - it isn't helpful. They could make long, insightful suggestions about alternative locations, but if the photographer cared about using the location shown and wanted feedback on it - then that wouldn't be helpful either.
Helpful is an opinion. Just like voting.
These threads are always amusing. |
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10/31/2003 09:40:58 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Someone could give the most technical comment in the world and if it doesn't make sense or confuses the photographer - it isn't helpful. They could make long, insightful suggestions about alternative locations, but if the photographer cared about using the location shown and wanted feedback on it - then that wouldn't be helpful either. |
But from what I've read in most of these threads (and I agree, they do tend to be amusing), it seems not that people are complaining about not understanding or being confused by comments, they are complaining about not agreeing with them. I've had some PMs from people chewing me out for my opinion, but then I say to them, perhaps you didn't do your job very well if I (and others) aren't seeing what they THINK we should see. Instead of bashing our comments, try reflecting upon them.
I've read a lot of comments left by people on various photos and I don't see very many that are so technically involved as to confound or confuse the reader. Even I can understand most of them. I don't always agree with them, but I understand them.
I do concur, finding a comment helpful (like the comment itself) is a matter of opinion, but if you want people to continue to leave their remarks, then don't go out of your way to make them feel stupid and unappreciated.
Maybe in addition to the "helpful" checkbox, they could add one for "appreciated"...and maybe even one for "go to hell"? Just so there's no confusion on intent... LOL!
Pidd |
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10/31/2003 09:42:38 AM · #16 |
I actually don't find the helpful option that helpful because not everyone uses it the same way. When I look over my comments to see what was helpful I really have no way of knowing whether it was checked because the photographer checks them all, it was not checked because the photographer never checks any of them, or if it was read, considered, and checked because it was helpful. The only way to understand that is to read all his/her comments and try to interpret the photographer's criteria for helpful.
That being said, it would serve its purpose better if the check was for "not helpful". That way, there is no doubt that the photographer did not need your comment. But we all know the problems that can lead to. ;) |
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10/31/2003 09:46:13 AM · #17 |
By the way, the Grace challenge has inspired me to leave more comments than any other challenge to date. There are many inspired shots here. For those of you to whom I have left negative or suggestive comments, no insult is ever intended. I KNOW from experience just how hard it is to put yourself out there like you do. To be an artist is to often be putting your heart on the line. I admire your courage and your willingness and desire to learn and grow.
Pidd |
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10/31/2003 11:08:53 AM · #18 |
I think comments would be a lot more interesting if there was a 'reply' option with them - rather than having them dissappear into private messages. Having them threaded wouldn't go amiss either.
The critiques would be sometimes more interesting as a dialog... |
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10/31/2003 12:21:59 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
I think comments would be a lot more interesting if there was a 'reply' option with them - rather than having them dissappear into private messages. Having them threaded wouldn't go amiss either.
The critiques would be sometimes more interesting as a dialog... |
I have also wished for this at times. I think it would be a great way to have a discussion on a photograph, and on a photographer as a whole. |
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