| Author | Thread |
|
|
10/30/2003 04:16:01 PM · #1 |
I think it's time to progress upwards from my trusty Pentax Optio S.
When I was younger, I used to get very frustrated by my 50mm lens on my SLR, so I now have a hunger for LOTS of zoom!
I've been looking forward to the Panasonic FZ10 which comes out in a few months, as it has 12* zoom, image stabilisation, F2.8 throughout the zoom range, and full manual controls. However, I want my new camera to be very flexible, and I hear from the forums that there may be problems in low light, especially where the viewfinder is concerned.
I really have my heart set on having image stabilising, as I want to take lots of handheld shots in dark conditions such as gigs, as well as taking animal telephoto shots. I don't have the money for a Rebel and IS lens, so this leaves the Minolta A1 which by all accounts is an amazing bit of kit. But it only has a 7* zoom. On the other hand, it is 5 megapixels, so I'm sure I can do a bit of cropping. The price in the UK can be as low as £620, which doesn't seem to be too bad bearing in mind it's capabilities.
So... does anybody have any experience with the Minolta A1? Do you think the FZ10 will have a good enough quality to stand up as an all purpose camera? Does anybody have experience with adding a teleconverter lens to this Minolta 7*zoom lens? Should I try to be patient (really hard!) and wait until March/April for the FZ10 to come out, or buy an A1 now? |
|
|
|
10/30/2003 04:19:46 PM · #2 |
| I'll swap you a Canon G2 for the Optio S ? I'm wanting to sell it to buy one of them anyway :) |
|
|
|
10/30/2003 04:33:45 PM · #3 |
Isn't the Canon a much better camera than the Optio? Anyway, I'll be hanging on very tightly to my Optio, as I don't think I'm going to always have the A1/FZ10 hanging round my neck. The only thing I would swap my Optio for would be the new 4 Megapixel Optio S!
Message edited by author 2003-10-30 16:34:07. |
|
|
|
10/30/2003 06:00:32 PM · #4 |
| Bump... someone must have an opinion on the Minolta A1? |
|
|
|
10/30/2003 06:23:17 PM · #5 |
What is that old saying about great minds think alike?
I was reading up on the A1 last night but it hasn't been out to long and I couldn't find any comprensive reviews, only previews. But it is interesting. |
|
|
|
10/30/2003 06:34:42 PM · #6 |
| I could have written this post as well.. Currently I am in the exact same position trying to decide what to go with.. I would be interested for further insights from anyone regarding these two cameras. |
|
|
|
10/31/2003 06:30:03 AM · #7 |
Bump again... is there anyone out there who has any opinions or advice who can help us out here?
Perhaps current owners of the Minolta 7 series cameras can offer some insights. If you own a Minolta 7 series, are you thinking of upgrading to the A1? Is anyone about to buy an A1? Are people going to wait for the FZ10? Or is everyone buying a Rebel instead of the A1?
Cheers,
Bob |
|
|
|
11/01/2003 04:24:33 PM · #8 |
Oh man, I went into a photography shop today and tried out the Minolta A1. Then I tried a Canon 300D. *Sigh*. Then I looked into the lenses that are available for the Canon. *Sigh*. Now I want a Canon.
The Minolta feels like a cheap toy next to that thing, and the Rebel probably feels like a cheap toy next to the 10D.
I looked at the reviews, and the noise levels in the Canon at high ISOs are remarkable. But once you have the Canon and a couple of image stablised lenses such as the 28-135 and the 75-300... and a macro lens, you are talking a serious amount of money. Do I really want to carry around all those lenses?
Then it hit me...
buy a 35mm Canon film camera with the lenses I want, and save up for the digital body at a point when one with the specifications of the 10D will be affordable.
Of course, I won't be able to take part in the challenges here anymore.
Any thoughts anyone? |
|
|
|
11/01/2003 04:39:37 PM · #9 |
You could still enter with your Pentax :)
|
|
|
|
11/01/2003 04:44:53 PM · #10 |
You've gotta ask yourself how much you're really going to save by buying a film body over a digital one. Consider that film and developing costs are going to add up pretty fast. 30-40 rolls of film burned and I guarantee you that you'll wish you'd bought a 300D or a 10D. The savings will be there out the gate but you'll spend as much or more in the long run on film and you'll always wish you had gone digital. If you're going to be spending thousands on a system (and you most definitely will) then get what you want.
I've spent way more on lenses and accessories (battery grip, 420EX flash, 28mm F2.8, 50mm F1.4, 70-200mm F4L, 2 LowePro cases, extra battery, 2 512mb CF cards, filters, cleaning stuff) than on the 10D body, and I'm still not finished...currently looking at a tripod, monopod, Elan 7 body for film shooting, 17-40 F4L and 300 F4L as additions in the next year. I am making a bit of money doing it, though, so your mileage may vary. Certainly you could get by with lesser lenses but I feel that if I buy crap lenses I'll always regret it and most likely end up buying good ones later on anyways. You'll have the lenses for life if you look after them . Bodies will come and go.
If you want a DSLR system, prepare to spend a lot of money. The 300D is a great start and the eventual upgrade to a better body in some years' time will be less painful as you'll already have an EOS system built around it. |
|
|
|
11/01/2003 04:58:16 PM · #11 |
| OK heres my input, I bought an minolta last night at 4pm after I (embarrassed to say) dropped my minolta7i on the ground and broke something, besperate to take pic on halloween I bought the A1 figuring not much to learn from the 7i, it has one feature I can already say is AWESOME a no shake feature, so without a tripod you can hand hold a lot more shots, it has tons of features, luckily most i am familiar with from 7i (the reviews count this as a downfall claiming hard to learn, personally I did not find it too hard). The automatic mode works really well to start you off as you learn the added features and some REally easy to learn features make initial shots not too hard. It has one of the fastest shutter speeds out there. I really liked the shots I could take with my 7i and was glad when the store I went to had this one (just in). I only took a shot or two in living room so far in really bad lighting, yet they came out so much sharper due to the shake feature. Downside from review is that it is suppose to be slower to focus on moving objects and need to pan with it. The new battery system in the A1 is a lithium but after a few hours with it on (claims 350 shots with one battery) I am very pleased not to have to carry 5 sets of 4AA's and the san disks are way cheaper than the sony products. |
|
|
|
11/01/2003 04:59:32 PM · #12 |
Wow... I guess at the end of the day I have to work out where photography comes in my list of priorities. Especially as I always want better musical instruments as well. You can never have too many guitars. I'm also shopping for a top-end keyboard at the moment as well.
I have really been bitten by the photography bug though.
How much better is a Rebel than a top-end prosumer such as the Minolta A1?
What I want primarily in a camera is the ability to take effective low-light shots without a tripod (to capture gigs), and a good zoom for wildlife and candid shots. Will the Rebel really outshine the A1 in all these conditions? Of course it will be better... but how much better? Has anybody here progressed upwards from a top-end prosumer to a Rebel, and how have you found it?
Cheers,
Bob |
|
|
|
11/01/2003 05:03:29 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by ellamay:
OK heres my input, I bought an minolta last night at 4pm after I (embarrassed to say) dropped my minolta7i on the ground and broke something, besperate to take pic on halloween I bought the A1 figuring not much to learn from the 7i, it has one feature I can already say is AWESOME a no shake feature, so without a tripod you can hand hold a lot more shots, it has tons of features, luckily most i am familiar with from 7i (the reviews count this as a downfall claiming hard to learn, personally I did not find it too hard). The automatic mode works really well to start you off as you learn the added features and some REally easy to learn features make initial shots not too hard. It has one of the fastest shutter speeds out there. I really liked the shots I could take with my 7i and was glad when the store I went to had this one (just in). I only took a shot or two in living room so far in really bad lighting, yet they came out so much sharper due to the shake feature. Downside from review is that it is suppose to be slower to focus on moving objects and need to pan with it. The new battery system in the A1 is a lithium but after a few hours with it on (claims 350 shots with one battery) I am very pleased not to have to carry 5 sets of 4AA's and the san disks are way cheaper than the sony products. |
Great, I look forward to seeing loads of your shots here.
I've heard that noise is a problem on the A1... how are you finding it? Do you find anything above 100 ISO to be usable?
Are you considering filters or add-on lenses?
Can you be specific about what the IS system allows you to get away with that you wouldn't have been able to do without it?
Sorry to hear about your 7i, I hope it was insured!
Any reason why you went for the A1 and didn't upgrade to a Rebel?
Thanks!
Edit: Thanks for the email, as you can see I saw your post!
Message edited by author 2003-11-01 17:04:40. |
|
|
|
11/01/2003 05:07:44 PM · #14 |
I went from an F717 to the 10D and for low light there's no comparison. It's one of the most dramatic differences, being able to shoot at f/1.4 and ISO 1600 or 3200 (3200 on 10D only) and still get usable pictures. You can shoot in very bad light. Furthermore, the E-TTL flash on the DLSR is much better than the system on most prosumer models. At ISO 800 the noise is similar to the F717 at 100.
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
Wow... I guess at the end of the day I have to work out where photography comes in my list of priorities. Especially as I always want better musical instruments as well. You can never have too many guitars. I'm also shopping for a top-end keyboard at the moment as well.
I have really been bitten by the photography bug though.
How much better is a Rebel than a top-end prosumer such as the Minolta A1?
What I want primarily in a camera is the ability to take effective low-light shots without a tripod (to capture gigs), and a good zoom for wildlife and candid shots. Will the Rebel really outshine the A1 in all these conditions? Of course it will be better... but how much better? Has anybody here progressed upwards from a top-end prosumer to a Rebel, and how have you found it?
Cheers,
Bob |
|
|
|
|
11/01/2003 05:11:50 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by jimmythefish:
I went from an F717 to the 10D and for low light there's no comparison. It's one of the most dramatic differences, being able to shoot at f/1.4 and ISO 1600 or 3200 (3200 on 10D only) and still get usable pictures. You can shoot in very bad light. Furthermore, the E-TTL flash on the DLSR is much better than the system on most prosumer models. At ISO 800 the noise is similar to the F717 at 100. |
That's what I was afraid of hearing!
Thanks for the input... |
|
|
|
11/01/2003 05:20:27 PM · #16 |
I was told the rebel is an amateur cam and the A1 is a prosumer, the guy at the store showed me about 6 cameras (including A1 ) that he thought were MUCH better than the rebel. He said if you go with the canon go 10D. I have always shot with 100iso, and I have not taken enough shots yet to notice. I do have a telephoto lense (1.85 also fairly new) that on the 7i and it does seem to fit on the A1 have not actually done shots yet tho with it, I will hopefully go out today or tommorrow and take a couple hundred shots, and then I can give you a much more detailed opinion. It is my suspicion that with the no shake option I may not need a tripod so much with this one vs. the 7i.
(the 7i is still under warranty so hopefully they won't notice my having dropped it : ( )
ok I will go out for a little bit now and report back in an hour or so : ), now ya got me curious, also I am really up front with salesman that if I dont like it i will be back to return, I would say buy one and try and exchange it if you are not happy, or buy both and return one like less. I also really like the shape and feel of the a1.
Message edited by author 2003-11-01 17:22:58. |
|
|
|
11/01/2003 06:05:58 PM · #17 |
| Well, I am importing my test shots, I took them in varying iso's and few macro's and of some moving objects, so far I cam tell you the camera is very quiet and smooth as it operates. I also took a few with telephoto, and while I think there is slight vinetting in the corner edges they seem to be fairly sharp thru lcd... as soon as I get them all up I will try to post a few. |
|
|
|
11/01/2003 06:31:17 PM · #18 |
Just a few superficial impressions I've gathered:
Given the A1, the 10 D, the Rebel and the Sony F 828::
A1 > the "Dandy" of the four, feature-rich, complex sequencing of controls, light-weight metal body (not the sturdiest - I watched ellamay drop it!). The image stabilizer would be the one feature, I'd appreciate.
10 D > A serious tool (as opposed to 'toy'), also feature-rich, but with a utility approach to controls and coordination of them, much sturdier to hold and handle. I also like the silky feel of images that I've seen come out of this camera. Capable of a very narrow depth of field (to the best of my knowledge). Cons? the higher price.
Rebel > a usable stripped-down version of the 10 D, albeit with a plastic body, which 'feels' sturdy.
F 828 > Completely new colour scheme (added emerald), excellent lens, heavy-gauge metal body. When comparing the specs to any of the above and via my (added) experience with the F717, this camera remains the most serious contender to the 10 D. (Available mid-November). The built-in charger, also, appeals to those of us who want it both, fast and now. :-)
As you can see, the way a camera 'feels' in the hand is important to me. There are times, when I welcome an almost instinctive use over a more artificial and premeditated one.
|
|
|
|
11/01/2003 07:19:45 PM · #19 |
ok, i am putting a bunch of shots on my homepage, (much faster than uploading them seperately here) I have two pages, if you want the exif data for a specific shot just let me know. I took hundred shots in about 30 minutes within one block, I must say I am pretty happy with the results, the 800 iso is grainy. Have a look let me know what you think.
//homepage.mac.com/bucka.rooproductions/PhotoAlbum43.html
//homepage.mac.com/bucka.rooproductions/PhotoAlbum44.html |
|
|
|
11/01/2003 07:35:13 PM · #20 |
I would have to say that the pros and cons of each should be weighed by the needs of the photographer and not the inherent capabilities of the camera. My F717 (which I still have and use) is much more flexible and portable a tool than my current 10D setup, which is constrained by prime and large zoom lenses. This was a conscious decision to leave out a midrange zoom until I made up my mind further, as I knew full well that my F717 would fit the general purpose zoom requirements and would be used as such when compromise was called for.
So far this has worked quite well. If you're into getting a camera for general purpose use, and shallow depth of focus, high ISO performance and a very wide range of lenses is not high on your list of priorities, I'd say that a prosumer like the F717 or the 828, or the A1 would be a better choice. The 300D is a very similar camera to the 10D, and other than some firmware differences, performs identically as far as lens choice, ISO noise and depth of focus issues are concerned, which are the main reasons most people upgrade to a DSLR. My F717 goes with me when I don't want to carry a large camera or something very expensive (all relative here) and still want to take top-quality photographs. A DSLR system can prove to be expensive and none too carefree.
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Just a few superficial impressions I've gathered:
Given the A1, the 10 D, the Rebel and the Sony F 828::
A1 > the "Dandy" of the four, feature-rich, complex sequencing of controls, light-weight metal body (not the sturdiest - I watched ellamay drop it!). The image stabilizer would be the one feature, I'd appreciate.
10 D > A serious tool (as opposed to 'toy'), also feature-rich, but with a utility approach to controls and coordination of them, much sturdier to hold and handle. I also like the silky feel of images that I've seen come out of this camera. Capable of a very narrow depth of field (to the best of my knowledge). Cons? the higher price.
Rebel > a usable stripped-down version of the 10 D, albeit with a plastic body, which 'feels' sturdy.
F 828 > Completely new colour scheme (added emerald), excellent lens, heavy-gauge metal body. When comparing the specs to any of the above and via my (added) experience with the F717, this camera remains the most serious contender to the 10 D. (Available mid-November). The built-in charger, also, appeals to those of us who want it both, fast and now. :-)
As you can see, the way a camera 'feels' in the hand is important to me. There are times, when I welcome an almost instinctive use over a more artificial and premeditated one. |
|
|
|
|
11/01/2003 07:54:30 PM · #21 |
| I actually dropped the 7i, hence bought the A1 (hits her head against wall repeatedly over the 7i, hears zeuszen saying 'i told you so') |
|
|
|
11/01/2003 08:36:43 PM · #22 |
if i were you, and you were seriously going to stick with photography as a hobby, i would skip the "pro-sumer" cameras. at a minimum, go with the rebel and start building a nice lens library. you will have a greater initial investment, but chances are that you'll be able to use those lenses in the future with your other cameras.
i have been VERY happy with my dimage 7i and don't regret buying it for a second. however, i bought it over a year and a half ago when there were really no digiSLR options. at the time, it was a great choice. now i'm just dying to get my hands on an SLR.
there are two big complaints about the minolta, and both I agree with strongly. 1) noise -- above 200 ISO, it's super-noisy. you can totally see it. 2) lack of add-on components. there's a website somewhere (can't remember the link) that has a gigantic list of teleconverters and each and every one has a post by someone who owns it who says "nope...won't work." I don't know if that is true with the A1 or Z1 or not, but it's a huge limitation. the 7i has a 7x optical zoom (equivalent to 200mm in 35mm format) which is gigantic, but it's still a fixed lens and, therefore, a limitation.
with all of the advances in digiSLR, I'd definitely sink some money that way rather than get something that's still somewhat expensive that you'll be frustrated with after a while. |
|
|
|
11/01/2003 08:38:22 PM · #23 |
sorry about your 7i, ellamay! *plays taps*
best of luck with your A1. i enjoyed your test shots. :) |
|
|
|
11/01/2003 08:42:32 PM · #24 |
i found the link to the 7i add-on equipment list. here it is.
like i said, i don't know if the A1 will be different, but Minolta was REALLY lackin' with the 7i equipment and between the 5, 7, and 7i they've had almost 3 years to come up with SOMETHING. *shrug* just MHO.
good luck! |
|
|
|
11/01/2003 08:50:47 PM · #25 |
| ellamay, when you get used to your new A1 a bit more I'd like to hear your thoughts on it's noise reduction mode. |
|
