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01/06/2007 12:08:00 AM · #26 |
| and if you did away with scores 1-3 then scores 4-7 would be the new low scores and the site would be REALLY screwed up. |
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01/06/2007 12:09:12 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by svt_gEEk:
Well, if you know who voted you so low then you can PM them instead of ranting about some annonymous(sp?) vote. |
Right. So that's the perfect way to get honest feedback.
So again - why not just do away with the 3 and under scores ?
Read up on 'chilling effects' if you aren't sure. |
Well, I thought I made this clear earlier. SOME images actually deserve under a 3. I've seen some pictures entered on this site that looks like they gave their 2 year old their cellphone camera and just let them press buttons and then decided they'd enter one of the random clicks without any editing, lol. |
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01/06/2007 12:09:25 AM · #28 |
Those voter that give a LOT of low votes obviously know more than the rest of us, so make them comment on their votes... if a certain percentage of votes are low pop up a message that says they have to comment on the votes to have their votes counted.
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01/06/2007 12:10:34 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by svt_gEEk:
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by svt_gEEk:
Well, if you know who voted you so low then you can PM them instead of ranting about some annonymous(sp?) vote. |
Right. So that's the perfect way to get honest feedback.
So again - why not just do away with the 3 and under scores ?
Read up on 'chilling effects' if you aren't sure. |
Well, I thought I made this clear earlier. SOME images actually deserve under a 3. I've seen some pictures entered on this site that looks like they gave their 2 year old their cellphone camera and just let them press buttons and then decided they'd enter one of the random clicks without any editing, lol. |
So basically, as long as YOU think they deserve under a 3, it's cool for us to vote that way without commenting? |
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01/06/2007 12:14:31 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by mk:
Originally posted by svt_gEEk:
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by svt_gEEk:
Well, if you know who voted you so low then you can PM them instead of ranting about some annonymous(sp?) vote. |
Right. So that's the perfect way to get honest feedback.
So again - why not just do away with the 3 and under scores ?
Read up on 'chilling effects' if you aren't sure. |
Well, I thought I made this clear earlier. SOME images actually deserve under a 3. I've seen some pictures entered on this site that looks like they gave their 2 year old their cellphone camera and just let them press buttons and then decided they'd enter one of the random clicks without any editing, lol. |
So basically, as long as YOU think they deserve under a 3, it's cool for us to vote that way without commenting? |
I didn't say that. I comment on images I think deserve lower than 3. |
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01/06/2007 12:15:45 AM · #31 |
I didn't realize the 'comment' box on the low voting still came up when you make a comment (since I like to go back and make comments when I can take the extra time)! It would be nice if it only popped up when you didn't and if it worked in a way so that if you really did just forget, you could still make a comment on the photo without having to go back. Maybe have two options like "Oops, I forgot" and "I'll do it later - keep going!" instead of just 'okay'.
- C, ES |
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01/06/2007 12:17:50 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by EducatedSavage:
I didn't realize the 'comment' box on the low voting still came up when you make a comment (since I like to go back and make comments when I can take the extra time)! It would be nice if it only popped up when you didn't and if it worked in a way so that if you really did just forget, you could still make a comment on the photo without having to go back. Maybe have two options like "Oops, I forgot" and "I'll do it later - keep going!" instead of just 'okay'.
- C, ES |
Well, if there was an option that let you keep going then people would just click it and never leave a comment. Maybe have that option and just not count your vote if you don't go back and comment. Maybe have a section of photos you're voting on that are under 3 and have no comments so you'll remember to go back and comment so it would count also. |
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01/06/2007 12:24:21 AM · #33 |
I doubt that pop up is accomplishing anything. If we are going to have a pop up I'd rather see it be a reminder of what the challenge description is that way voters have that fresh in their minds when they start voting. Might even reduce the number of low votes which are usually the result of DNMC.
Message edited by author 2007-01-06 00:24:57. |
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01/06/2007 12:26:50 AM · #34 |
Ooh, I haven't given any low votes out in a long time, I didn't even know about this. Who wants to be my first victim low vote?
Sounds like a good idea, even if it cuts down the number of low votes a little bit, that's better than nothing. Some die hard trolls might still put in a few extra keystrokes to doll out their low votes, but I doubt many will make the etra effort, and if they do give out extremely short comments it could help identify who the trolls are. If somebody does get a single character comment or similar, they could check the commenter's other comments and see if there's a big pattern and report it if necessary. I blabber too much, sorry. |
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01/06/2007 12:36:52 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by svt_gEEk:
Originally posted by mk:
Originally posted by svt_gEEk:
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by svt_gEEk:
Well, if you know who voted you so low then you can PM them instead of ranting about some annonymous(sp?) vote. |
Right. So that's the perfect way to get honest feedback.
So again - why not just do away with the 3 and under scores ?
Read up on 'chilling effects' if you aren't sure. |
Well, I thought I made this clear earlier. SOME images actually deserve under a 3. I've seen some pictures entered on this site that looks like they gave their 2 year old their cellphone camera and just let them press buttons and then decided they'd enter one of the random clicks without any editing, lol. |
So basically, as long as YOU think they deserve under a 3, it's cool for us to vote that way without commenting? |
I didn't say that. I comment on images I think deserve lower than 3. |
If that makes you happy, great!
I don't feel that anyone should be forced to justify their votes on DPC any more that they should be forced to justify any other opinion they might hold.
If comments were mandatory on images that get voted low, there would be;
- a huge increase in one word comments like "awful" or "terrible", which would drive new whiny threads (similar to this one, but probably even whinier).
- an increase in annoying PM's to low voters looking for higher votes or berating the voter for the audacity to vote such incredible work lower than it could possibly ever deserve.
- an increase in voters who leave comments like "Great!" and "Nice Job!" on image they actually voted a one.
The voters don't owe comments to people who they believe take bad pictures, nor should they. A comment is a gift, not something forced under duress.
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01/06/2007 12:37:58 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by svt_gEEk:
Well, if there was an option that let you keep going then people would just click it and never leave a comment. Maybe have that option and just not count your vote if you don't go back and comment. Maybe have a section of photos you're voting on that are under 3 and have no comments so you'll remember to go back and comment so it would count also. |
I make a great fault of believing in the genuine motivations of people. Not worrying about the trolls, only the person who hadn't considered a comment at first or forgot and might really want to leave one... but not hit 'back' or search through them later.
I have no clue what to do about trolls.
- C, ES |
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01/06/2007 12:45:26 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
If comments were mandatory on images that get voted low, there would be;
- a huge increase in one word comments like "awful" or "terrible", which would drive new whiny threads (similar to this one, but probably even whinier).
- an increase in annoying PM's to low voters looking for higher votes or berating the voter for the audacity to vote such incredible work lower than it could possibly ever deserve.
- an increase in voters who leave comments like "Great!" and "Nice Job!" on image they actually voted a one.
The voters don't owe comments to people who they believe take bad pictures, nor should they. A comment is a gift, not something forced under duress. |
That's why I say that not only should the low and high votes be required to have comments, but also must meet length requirements of a comment in order to keep people from leaving one word comments in order to get their vote to count. |
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01/06/2007 01:13:23 AM · #38 |
cut and paste:
"This is one of the worst photos I have ever seen. Perhaps you should take up bowling."
Maybe I could write a Grease Monkey script to do it for me on all the photos I vote low! Beats any length requirement and is just as useless.
Trolls? Really? People are still worried about Trolls?
This site has spent years working on algorithms and methods to weed out and suspend voters who vote in patterns - good or bad. There are no trolls only differences in opinions.
show me a truly undeserved 1. I'll make an argument about any picture on this site as to why it could justifiably receive a 1. Just because a person isn't in line with the majority of the public opinion doesn't make them a troll.
The pop up that asks you to comment on photos you've voted low is there to try and HELP the photographer who's photo your voting on but it doesn't work because as I and many others have experienced MANY photographers don't want your "help" and will try in various ways to punish you for it.
I've learned by fire that true constructive criticism is best left in the forums and not in the challenges.
If you really want to "fix" the comment system then add a check box that says something to the effect of "user is open to constructive criticism" when the user submits their photo and then let the voters see that so they know how to proceed. I would give umpteen more comments if I knew the person actually wanted them. |
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01/06/2007 05:06:36 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by svt_gEEk:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
If comments were mandatory on images that get voted low, there would be;
- a huge increase in one word comments like "awful" or "terrible", which would drive new whiny threads (similar to this one, but probably even whinier).
- an increase in annoying PM's to low voters looking for higher votes or berating the voter for the audacity to vote such incredible work lower than it could possibly ever deserve.
- an increase in voters who leave comments like "Great!" and "Nice Job!" on image they actually voted a one.
The voters don't owe comments to people who they believe take bad pictures, nor should they. A comment is a gift, not something forced under duress. |
That's why I say that not only should the low and high votes be required to have comments, but also must meet length requirements of a comment in order to keep people from leaving one word comments in order to get their vote to count. |
Read the last line of my post again.
Comments are gifts from other members of this community, people who are largely strangers who don't owe you anything. That's right, they are gifts, even the ones that say something mean like, "This is one of the worst photos I have ever seen. Perhaps you should take up bowling." (Thanks for that example  Megatherian)
They are not debts that MUST be paid. No one owes you a comment
Do you demand gifts from your family and friends? I hope not.
Would you go up to a stranger and say "Hey, it's my birthday go to the store and buy me a present and you have to spend at least $10 or something bad will happen to you"? It's not really a gift then is it? It might be considered extortion though.
Message edited by author 2007-01-06 05:07:48.
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01/06/2007 05:35:03 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by Megatherian:
If you really want to "fix" the comment system then add a check box that says something to the effect of "user is open to constructive criticism" when the user submits their photo and then let the voters see that so they know how to proceed. I would give umpteen more comments if I knew the person actually wanted them. |
Yes, I have seen other websites that have this. I like it and would recommend that we use it here. |
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01/06/2007 09:22:57 AM · #41 |
I'm a little bemused by the idea of a 'user is open to constructive criticism' tagline.
Call me crazy, but I was under the impression that the whole point of DPChallenge was to facillitate the provision and receipt of constructive criticism.
Surely, by submitting an image to a challenge one is implicitly accepting that the relevant photo will be subject to the judgment and criticism of others. Indeed, I don't think I'm too far off base when I say that entering a photo in a challenge at dpc really amounts to a request for the judgment and criticism of others.
Yes, there will be times when we won't agree with that criticism, it might frustrate us, irritate us, or make us laugh out loud at its absurdity. But on other occasions it will provide genuine assistance in our (occasionally futile) attempts to become better photographers.
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01/06/2007 09:32:57 AM · #42 |
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01/06/2007 09:49:48 AM · #43 |
Wouldn't it be fun to reveal names along with all the "1" votes at the end of a challenge?
:-D
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01/06/2007 09:59:41 AM · #44 |
Then the low-voters would just vote all two's. What would really be fun is if they (D&L) randomly revealed a percentage of voters. You'd never know if you were going to get exposed. Sort of like random drug-testing. lol
Message edited by author 2007-01-06 10:00:25. |
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01/06/2007 10:04:28 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Wouldn't it be fun to reveal names along with all the "1" votes at the end of a challenge?
:-D |
I sometime vote a 1 and wouldn't mind being exposed at all.
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01/06/2007 10:11:21 AM · #46 |
You know, I haven't been here in while. Partly because I've been busy, partly because the I find these same old complaints annoying. When I started voting on the open challenge things were great! Then I voted a pic low and got a message telling me that I should do my part and
give feed back. To be frank, my low vote is my feed back! I will
justify myself to no one! If I like something then great, I'll vote
to show it, and if I don't like a pic, then I'll vote to show it.
My wife once said to a friend of hers "If your not sure your gonna like
the answer, then don't ask the question."
So, I say to everyone! If your not sure your gonna like the response,
or if you can't handle the response, then you should seriously
consider not posting the pic!
Edit: When I say response, I mean vote not comment. But, I guess you should consider both!
Message edited by author 2007-01-06 10:15:27. |
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01/06/2007 10:53:08 AM · #47 |
| I personally would like for every voter to leave me a comment. How else am I going to get better if I don't know what people like and what they don't like about my entries? That's the whole reason I joined this site anyway, not to compete among all of you, but to learn through displaying my photographs and recieving votes and comments. I can handle all the constructive criticism in the world. I have PM'd one person that left a comment, but it was because he appeared to have judged my photo soley on subject matter alone, not on the technical aspect. The photo was in a "Simple Pleasures" challenge and the commenter basically said my subject was not a simple pleasure at all just because he didn't enjoy the subject I was depicting himself. I do admit that there has to be some subjectivism in the voting but I never vote any lower just because their subject isn't a favorite of mine. |
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01/06/2007 11:15:32 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by svt_gEEk:
That's why I say that not only should the low and high votes be required to have comments, but also must meet length requirements of a comment in order to keep people from leaving one word comments in order to get their vote to count. |
Ludicrous... what if I left a comment that said:
"This sucks big time.......................... not worth the effort"
Then I cut and paste this wonderful comments and add it to all those images I consider as being of poor quality. I am certain I have met your length requirements, but have you as the recipient gained anything from it?
The voting process on this site is still democratic, and it is best that we leave it as such. We have the "Pop up Box" as a gentle reminder, and that is how it should remain. If indeed we "Require" comments for the upper and lower echelon score, failing which the scores would NOT count, then I fear you will see a dramatic reduction in scoring, and a noticeable "Skew" in the scoring.
Just another man's point of view.
Ray |
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01/06/2007 12:01:04 PM · #49 |
Intersting thread...
I'm just starting with digital photography and am hoping to learn and improve as I go along here. Sadly, I'm either getting no comments along with low scores or completely unconstructive comments - what's the point?
I don't comment on every single photo that I vote on, but if I'm giving extreme scores - low or high - I try to let the person know why, what works and doesn't work. Sometimes I am not sure that my comments are constructive because I feel I don't know enough terminology to be technically specific. However, being an artist, I try to give my take on the composition.
Bottom line: cconstructive comments are really appreciated! :o) |
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01/06/2007 12:10:35 PM · #50 |
| I guess the best way to get comments if you want them is to make a thread in the photography discussion area. That's what I did last night after some discussion here. I have recieved some pretty good tips from people who actually want to help. |
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