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10/18/2003 04:48:21 PM · #26
I shoot in colour, to get the full tonal range, rather than the flat B&Ws you get from the camera.

I use the channel mixer to convert, so that I can vary the tonal relationships and effectively use colour filters for my B&Ws to bring out certain areas that I want to strengthen.

Then I typically use duotones to tint for the final print.
10/18/2003 05:38:58 PM · #27
Originally posted by Gordon:

shoot in colour, to get the full tonal range, rather than the flat B&Ws you get from the camera.

I use the channel mixer to convert, so that I can vary the tonal relationships and effectively use colour filters for my B&Ws to bring out certain areas that I want to strengthen.


is that better than my method?
i seem to have alright luck with it.

never done it the way gordon has described it.


soup
10/18/2003 05:42:43 PM · #28
I don't think the B&W images I get out of the camera are terribly flat. They are easy enough to tweak in PS.


10/18/2003 09:41:07 PM · #29
Anyway, here are a couple of shots I took this afternoon with my camera in B&W mode. The camera does not save them as grayscale, so it is quite easy to tone them sepia, brown, blue, purple, green or whatever color in PS.





Message edited by author 2003-10-18 21:43:45.
10/18/2003 10:00:51 PM · #30
Spazmo99 Very nice shots. Hereis another one of Rita.


10/19/2003 01:40:45 AM · #31
Originally posted by Gordon:

I shoot in colour, to get the full tonal range, rather than the flat B&Ws you get from the camera.

I use the channel mixer to convert, so that I can vary the tonal relationships and effectively use colour filters for my B&Ws to bring out certain areas that I want to strengthen.

Then I typically use duotones to tint for the final print.


I did some tests . All of the methods described here produced results with some differences. Each has it's merrits. These open up a whole new world to me, as to how to convert the image to BW.

Thanks to all for the input.


Message edited by author 2003-10-19 01:57:03.
10/19/2003 02:29:50 AM · #32
LIke many folks here, I always shoot in color, then convert to B&W in the Channel Mixer (Photoshop). The settings in the channel mixer constantly change, depending on what I'm photographing. Caucasian human skin, for instance, needs a lower red channel setting and a higher green one. Yet a green leaf may need much more red and less green for a darker tone.

The general rule is: if your object is red, the higher the red setting in the channel mixer, the lighter it will be. The same goes with the other channels. The opposite of red is green, so if you push the green channel on a red object, it leaves the red object alone (kind of), but lightens up anything green. To get a nice dark sky, leave the blue channel near or below zero and bring up the others. Once you figure out that you're affecting colors, even in B&W, it's a fun tool to use.

However, I almost always know if I will change something into B&W when I take the shot. I generally don't experiment to see if a B&W version would be better. It's usually a planned thing.

Message edited by author 2003-10-19 02:35:33.
10/19/2003 06:12:25 AM · #33
I have always used the B&W mode directly on the camera. There is no logic to it at all, I know. I know that I can always convert to B&W, but somehow, I have never been happy viewing a color photo, and then converting it. When I view a subject, I tend to think of it in B&W and so I want to see how it appears that way.

I have compared a B&W out of my little cam to one converted on P/shop. I cant pick out any differences in the range of greys or any finer detail.

I try to shoot in colour because it makes more sense, but sometimes I just can't resist using the B&W directly
10/19/2003 06:22:42 AM · #34
Originally posted by dsidwell:

However, I almost always know if I will change something into B&W when I take the shot. I generally don't experiment to see if a B&W version would be better. It's usually a planned thing.


I do this most of the time too. However, if I find that when I have the photo on my computer, and the colours are bad or distracting, I will sometimes make it B&W to try and save what could otherwise be a nice photo. This has happened to me on a few occasions when I've accidently used the wrong white balance :P
10/19/2003 08:39:01 PM · #35
this thread should be bumped up

oh, now it is

Message edited by author 2003-10-19 20:39:31.
10/19/2003 09:15:21 PM · #36
I guess that is one thing that would be handy to have as a feature on a camera - to be able to take a color photograph yet have it previewed as B&W. This way you can see if the tonal range is what you're after in B&W and yet you still have it in color to go back to if you want.
10/19/2003 09:18:43 PM · #37
I would think that the cameras with the built-in histograms would be able to produce some great b&w pictures. If any of them will produce in camera b&w's.
10/19/2003 09:53:12 PM · #38
indeed this is a good thread

Originally posted by mariomel:

These open up a whole new world to me, as to how to convert the image to BW.


soup
10/19/2003 11:24:25 PM · #39
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

I don't have the channel mixer capability with Photoshop Elements 2.0. I play around with the Gradient map sometimes. There is no fixed way that I convert. It all depends on the particular image. In most cases, I just desaturate the color and then make any appropriate level/contrast adjustments.


There is a trick you can use in Elements to get similar control. First create a Hue/Saturation adjustment layer and set the Saturation control all the way to the left (-100) to remove the color. Then select the Background again (or the layer just below the Hue/Saturation layer) and create a Levels layer. Choose the Red, Green, and Blue channels in turn and adjust the sliders to get the effect you want. I usually group the layers so I can turn visibility of the two layers on with one click.
10/19/2003 11:38:37 PM · #40
Originally posted by hortopth:



I have compared a B&W out of my little cam to one converted on P/shop. I cant pick out any differences in the range of greys or any finer detail.


But how did you convert ? There is a huge variety of tonal differences that can be made using the channel mixer that significantly alter the final B&W print - by mixing varying amounts of different colour channels you can make dramatic changes in how the tones are rendered - much in the same way that using a colour filter on the lens is used for traditional film B&W work.
10/19/2003 11:40:14 PM · #41
I meandered down the path of doing custom duotones this evening - there is an amazing amount of flexibilty within the scope of toning a B&W image.
10/21/2003 01:42:12 AM · #42
Originally posted by Gordon:


But how did you convert ? There is a huge variety of tonal differences that can be made using the channel mixer that significantly alter the final B&W print - by mixing varying amounts of different colour channels you can make dramatic changes in how the tones are rendered - much in the same way that using a colour filter on the lens is used for traditional film B&W work.


I will have to play around later. Honestly, I have only been turning them into monochrome by clicking that little box. I think photoshop is hiding more than I have bothered to learn thus far.
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