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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> why cant everyone quit being such wankers??
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Showing posts 26 - 50 of 123, (reverse)
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 10/16/2003 10:41:32 AM · #26
what a waste of time this has been! :)
 10/16/2003 10:53:32 AM · #27
If it was it a beautiful photo of a sailboat on the middle of the ocean I woul'd give it 10 doesn't matter if is not meeting the challenge ,but the one you are talking about I didn't even see what is all about ,it is totally unclear dark blur of a dog!I rated it 2 for the effort!
IF you would give it a 10 and it didn't meet the challenge why are we all knocking ourselves out trying to take photos that do meet the challenge. Why don't we just all put our favorite picture of the week on and go from there.
 10/16/2003 11:18:10 AM · #28
IF you would give it a 10 and it didn't meet the challenge why are we all knocking ourselves out trying to take photos that do meet the challenge. Why don't we just all put our favorite picture of the week on and go from there.

Errrrr, becasue it would come last, I think that's what the whole discussion is about....
 10/16/2003 11:19:37 AM · #29
Originally posted by DavidLevin:


anyways, as i looked at last place of this challenge, i noticed that in my opinion, it wasnt too bad of a photo and i actually woulde rated it highly.


My opinion was that it was not very good at all, I guess more people would agree with me on that than with you.

To resort to name calling when others disagree with you only draws attention to your lack of maturity.
10/16/2003 11:25:59 AM · #30
Originally posted by sonnyh:
If it was it a beautiful photo of a sailboat on the middle of the ocean I woul'd give it 10 doesn't matter if is not meeting the challenge ,but the one you are talking about I didn't even see what is all about ,it is totally unclear dark blur of a dog!I rated it 2 for the effort!
IF you would give it a 10 and it didn't meet the challenge why are we all knocking ourselves out trying to take photos that do meet the challenge. Why don't we just all put our favorite picture of the week on and go from there.

Because some of us care more about quality of the photo and creativity,meeting the challenge is very subjective and stop knocking yourself this is place where everybody is having fun! :-)
 10/16/2003 11:26:23 AM · #31
I'm totally with sonnyh on this last comment.

Portfolios are for beautiful photo's of sailboats, but I'd guess most of us are here because it's more educational to have to meet an external challenge than to only ever shoot what you want.

David has not jumped in to defend his language (and really folks, only his choice of words has been offensive).

David, if you read this, many of us are fans of your talent. It must sting a bit that the same people who were overly judgemental of the photo you appreaciated were also quick to jump down your throat over the use of words that are likely casually used among your mates and yourself. It would be gracious at this point to apologize for offending the more tender sensibilities on the site.

I would also like to point out that however offensive the words may have been to some, (I might be offended too if I knew what they meant, but please, don't enlighten me) they were not directed at specific individual and I really doubt that those words were meant to be so upsetting.

I'd call it an error in judgement, and going through the posts I can see tha many of us have been guilty of that at one time or other.
 10/16/2003 12:06:48 PM · #32


Message edited by author 2015-12-27 14:58:07.
 10/16/2003 12:18:33 PM · #33
DPChallenge was created in January 2002 by two friends, Drew Ungvarsky (drewmedia) and Langdon Oliver (langdon). The original idea behind the site was for it to be a place where the two of us and a couple of our friends could teach ourselves to be better photographers by giving each other a 'challenge' for the week. The idea quickly took off and became much more in the months that followed. This is taken from the about page here on the website.

The idea of D and L using challenges, is so they could expand their photgraphy skills, by shooting subjects or techniques that they normally may not have. They challenged themselves. That is the core behind this site.

Meeting the challenge is very important here, Im personally not a definition strict "down to the letter" voter, but you should be in the ball park "so to say" with the challenge topic.

There are too many other websites and real world places to share your photographical talents if you will. This site relies on the theme based challenge, and despite how good you think a photo is, ultimately, its up to the majority here under the DPC rules.
10/16/2003 12:20:47 PM · #34
Originally posted by DavidLevin:
Let me give this as an example, Timj351's shot, "Taking Cover" got 147 favorites, I would like to know if those of you that like it or have scored it highly would have given it a one because if it had not met the challenge. Maybe you would have and please give me an explanation as to why.


It depends what challenge it was entered in. As it was entered in the People challenge it certainly met the topic ans should be scored highly. Had it been entered in Urban Landscape then, yes, I would have scored it low despite it being a great shot.

I don't understand getting upset that people vote based upon if someone met the challenge or not. Like someone posted before - if we are not supposed to take the challenge topic into consideration then why not just have 2 different Open Challenges each week where everyone just submits their best shots.

10/16/2003 12:21:52 PM · #35
Because some of us care more about quality of the photo and creativity,meeting the challenge is very subjective and stop knocking yourself this is place where everybody is having fun! :-)

I also care about the quality of the photo. However, the quality of the photo is supposed to coincide with the subject matter of the challenge. My point was that if the challenge isn't met why bother posting a challenge.
 10/16/2003 12:23:08 PM · #36


Message edited by author 2015-12-27 14:59:42.
 10/16/2003 12:33:18 PM · #37
I don't think you can consider the challenge aspect of a site called dpCHALLENGE, which had challenges from day one, to be something that was just "incorporated into it" as an afterthought. People take the time constraints pretty seriously, why not do the same for challenge topics? If the topic doesn't really matter because we're all just here to have fun, then who really cares if the photo was taken a couple days before the allotted time? And for that matter, who really cares if it was edited, because it's all about the fun!

I feel like a lot of people turn the whole fun thing into "we're just here to look at eye candy." But that's not it. That's what deviantart and a million other websites are for, where everyone can post all of their photos, regardless of topic or editing or time constraints. DPC isn't. There are tons of people on this site who could go out and take a great photo of whatever they wanted, there are fewer who can find one that meets the topic. Hence, the challenge.

(Incidentally, I'm not of the crowd that likes to give the benefit of the doubt, either. I wouldn't go out and find a crappy painting and think "well, I'm sure the artist meant to paint it well.)
 10/16/2003 12:34:15 PM · #38
Originally posted by DavidLevin:
I never said that meeting the challenge shouldnt be taken into consideration, I said meeting the challenge should not be taken into consideration to the extent that people give 9 points off for it.


I have to agree with that. The photo that you referrenced to in the beginning of the thread was not a technially good shot. I gave it a 2 cause I didn't see any technical merit and it was very weak in meeting the challenge.

Personally I start out every photo at a 5 and add or subtract from there. Usually if I don't feel it met the challenge I will give it a 3 or 4 with a comment hoping maybe the photographer will pm and explain how it meets the challenge, thus giving me a little more knowledge into how they were thinking. Often I go back and revote raising the score once I understand the reasoning behind the photo and it tying into the challenge. But I think since I have been here there hasn't been more than 5 or 6 photos that I haven't been able to see it meeting the challenge.

If you don't think it meets the challenge then you need to open up your mind and think a little as to how it could meet the challenge before you cast that 1.
 10/16/2003 12:39:48 PM · #39
Originally posted by DavidLevin:
I never said that meeting the challenge shouldnt be taken into consideration, I said meeting the challenge should not be taken into consideration to the extent that people give 9 points off for it.


Why ?

You obviously have a strong opinion on the value of your particular interpretation of the voting scale ( which, for reference is (1)BAD - (10) GOOD and nothing more than that) but why should everyone else use it ?

Part of the particular power of the poorly defined voting scale is that we get a real mix of opinions on what is GOOD and BAD. Not everyone votes on how well it meets the challenge, not everyone votes on how cute the subject matter is, not everyone votes on how technically perfect the picture is. Everyone has their own particular idea of what is good and what is bad and so we end up with a wide cross-section of opinions, that in general, means the good filters to the top and the best picture across a huge variety of criteria wins.

Does this mean that what you personally happen to think of as good or bad should win ? No. Otherwise you'd be the sole judge. So why complain that other people have a right to exercise their own judgement ? Why try to make everyone vote using the same criteria ? It works. The good pictures win, for a universal interpretation of 'good'. Doesn't mean the technically best always win, or the most on topic, or the cutest always wins, but for this group idea of good, the best ends up at the top. Personally I like how it works out. Life is a lot easier if you accept it, rather than telling everyone else how to think.

NB This isn't just aimed at David, but everyone else who's ever wasted their time starting a 'here's how everyone else should vote' thread - including myself.
 10/16/2003 12:42:40 PM · #40
i cant quit. it's just too fun. who cares if i go blind?


10/16/2003 12:44:51 PM · #41


Message edited by author 2015-12-27 15:00:11.
 10/16/2003 12:50:34 PM · #42


Message edited by author 2015-12-27 15:00:25.
 10/16/2003 12:56:41 PM · #43
Originally posted by DavidLevin:


Wouldn't it be better if we all debated our opinions on how the scoring should go and have everyone agree on the final process and procedure so that each photo gets it real fair vote? and if we were clear on it, everyone would agree on the score and there wouldnt be forums like this anymore. It's like saying "I look for for a hint of purple in the top right corner of every picture, and if it isn' there, I give it a one and thats what makes this website great." Of course, I don't mean it to be that extreme but do you see what I'm saying?


Again - why ?

If we all got together and came up with a hugely complex, detailed scoring system, that covered aesthetics of the shot, technical quality, + and - scores for particular features, and a sliding scale agreed upon for each challenge on what is and what is not on topic, then everyone would come up with same score.

Or alternatively, everyone has their own particular arbitarily complex scoring scheme, that provides 1/100th of the goup opinion on the score, and we combine it to again end up with something that everyone agrees upon. The power of the second approach is in the distributed nature of the complex scoring scheme - you could never come up with one agreed upon scheme that considers so many facets of what is a good or a bad image.

And, if we moved to the scheme you suggest of one rigid scoring system, we'd just either quit having people voting, pick a panel to apply the vote to each image, or have weekly threads complaining about how people interpreted the difference between a 5 and 6.

There is real power in a distributed system, that is often greater than the sum of the parts.
 10/16/2003 12:57:23 PM · #44
gordon,

i think that people who dont understand stats dont really get that ..



10/16/2003 12:58:32 PM · #45
Here's my take on it David. You chose to highlight an issue with a picture which was neither particularly interesting, technically sound or accurate to the challenge brief - and you did it in a confusingly aggressive (albeit tongue-in-cheek) way.

I'd quit while you're behind if were you! ;D

Message edited by author 2003-10-16 17:24:29.
 10/16/2003 12:59:47 PM · #46
Put it another way - if we all voted on what would be a good voting scale or not, at least 1/3rd of the voters feel that not meeting the challenge automatically means 9 points off the score.

The globally agreed voting scale needs to represent that.

The current agregate scoring mechanism already has support for this built in.
10/16/2003 01:07:35 PM · #47


Message edited by author 2015-12-27 15:00:44.
 10/16/2003 01:08:52 PM · #48


Message edited by author 2015-12-27 15:01:01.
 10/16/2003 01:10:33 PM · #49
Originally posted by DavidLevin:
alright, i have to go for now, but dont take my lack of responses to mean that i stopped, ill be back!


Thanks for the warning =o)
 10/16/2003 01:12:00 PM · #50
Question from a non English as a First Language person. What's a "wanker"? Obviously not something I'd like to be, but I looked in my dictionary and the word doesn't seem to exist. Knowing what it means exactly might come in useful at some time.

Ursula
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