Saddam Verdict - Death by Hanging

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11/06/2006 11:39:00 AM · #26

Originally posted by bigalpha:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

[quote=pawdrix]...but in The Middle East who would expect anything different?

C'mon. What kind of statement is that?

I'd say it's a pretty logical statement based on....EVERYTHING!

I have NO faith in that entire part of the world. NONE.

History hasn't given me much good to work with. The entire region defies logic from most all I've seen.

Flash

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11/06/2006 11:46:47 AM · #27

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

I'm not Cindi, but I'm rather 'right' and I generally go Republican, but my views on these particular issues aren't right-wing at all. I'm against capital punishment, I'm pro-choice, and I'm VERY supportive of stem cell research.

To this post and the one following, my criticism of those - regardless whether right of left is the apparrent inconsistentcy I see in the changing attitudes on different forms of death and how some can oppose one form and support another. This I simply don't get.

Why would you support the death of an innocent unborn and oppose the death of a convicted murderer? If you support capitol punishment then it seems to me that you should accept other forms of "choice" death including the right to self defense and even euthenasia.

To me, either you oppose all forms of death (abortion, embryonic stem cell research, capitol punishment, euthenasia, right to self defense, war, etc) or you support them. Choosing some and not others is akin to hypocracy in my opinion.

The right and left pick and choose some of each but not all of each and this is why find both sides hypocrites.

jmsetzler

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11/06/2006 11:49:54 AM · #28

Originally posted by Flash:

[quote=jmsetzler]

Why would you support the death of an innocent unborn and oppose the death of a convicted murderer? If you support capitol punishment then it seems to me that you should accept other forms of "choice" death including the right to self defense and even euthenasia.

To me, either you oppose all forms of death (abortion, embryonic stem cell research, capitol punishment, euthenasia, right to self defense, war, etc) or you support them. Choosing some and not others is akin to hypocracy in my opinion.

The right and left pick and choose some of each but not all of each and this is why find both sides hypocrites.

If you want to discuss that in a separate thread, I'll happily elaborate.

fotomann_forever

11/06/2006 11:49:58 AM · #29

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11/06/2006 11:50:59 AM · #30

Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by bigalpha:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

[quote=pawdrix]...but in The Middle East who would expect anything different?

C'mon. What kind of statement is that?

I'd say it's a pretty logical statement based on....EVERYTHING!

I have NO faith in that entire part of the world. NONE.

History hasn't given me much good to work with. The entire region defies logic from most all I've seen.

I agree...but..think about this too. Sometimes the United States defies logic. When we let the evangelical faction of American politics be the defining voice we look just as kooky as the Muslims.

I live in Virginia and we have this marriage ammendment thing trying to pass. Thats right. People trying to ammend the constitution that deals with inalienable rights of the individual to talk about the evangelical side of a civil union. I mean. Sometimes I wonder if I woke up on another planet or I feel like Hester Prynne from the Scarlet letter.

Sorry to get a little off target but I really get fed the "EFF" up when one culture of evangelicals starts throwing rocks at another culture of evangelicals. It's all a bunch of mysticism from my stance and I agree sometimes with the Muslims..it does look like the crusades all over again.

11/06/2006 11:56:01 AM · #31

pawdrix -

What does faith have to do looking down upon different cultures.

What is your basis of logic? The fact that since our culture is way different than theirs, what they see as "right" and "wrong" can be completely different than ours?

pawdrix

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11/06/2006 12:13:54 PM · #32

Originally posted by bigalpha:

What is your basis of logic?

I can only answer that by saying pick up a newspaper or a history book.

11/06/2006 12:20:15 PM · #33

Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by bigalpha:
What is your basis of logic?

I can only answer that by saying pick up a newspaper or a history book.

Just read Al Jazeera (the leading news agency in the Mid-East) and I think you get a good sense of how out of sync the middle east is with basic human logic.

Better yet, listen to conservative talk radio in America and you might get the same feeling :-/

The Middle East doesn't have a monopoly on "Batshit Crazy" they have just been practicing it for a bit longer and have down the finer points.

11/06/2006 12:21:29 PM · #34

So, people in the Middle East have been fighting forever. Ok? So have the Africans, and Europeans, and Americans.

It all comes down to culture. Since our culture is different than the Iraqi/Iranian/Jordanian/Egyptian/etc culture, some things that they find as acceptable we may not. Such as hanging, beating your wife, cutting off fingers for stealing, having more than one wife. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

11/06/2006 12:24:40 PM · #35

Originally posted by hokie:

Just read Al Jazeera (the leading news agency in the Mid-East) and I think you get a good sense of how out of sync the middle east is with basic human logic.

Tell me, though, what is"basic human logic"? What defines something being logical?

Here's some logic:
Humans exist because God made us.
Humans exist because we have evolved from the tiniest one celled organism over hundreds of millions of years.

Depending on your views, either one of those can sound logical. In the same sense, one of those can sound illogical.

edited for clarity

Message edited by author 2006-11-06 12:27:43.

11/06/2006 12:25:30 PM · #36

Originally posted by bigalpha:

So, people in the Middle East have been fighting forever. Ok? So have the Africans, and Europeans, and Americans.

It all comes down to culture....Such as hanging, beating your wife, cutting off fingers for stealing, having more than one wife. ...

I just had to quote this for the irony of having hanging, beating your wife, cutting off fingers, stealing and having more than one wife all in the same descriptive sentence. :-D

Do you sometimes feel like it's the Truman Show and someone is making a big joke on it all?

11/06/2006 12:27:12 PM · #37

Originally posted by hokie:

Originally posted by bigalpha:
So, people in the Middle East have been fighting forever. Ok? So have the Africans, and Europeans, and Americans.

It all comes down to culture....Such as hanging, beating your wife, cutting off fingers for stealing, having more than one wife. ...

I just had to quote this for the irony of having hanging, beating your wife, cutting off fingers, stealing and having more than one wife all in the same descriptive sentence. :-D

Do you sometimes feel like it's the Truman Show and someone is making a big joke on it all?

:D hehe

Of course - but I think Mother Nature will soon exact her revenge.

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11/06/2006 12:31:02 PM · #38

Originally posted by bigalpha:

Originally posted by hokie:

Just read Al Jazeera (the leading news agency in the Mid-East) and I think you get a good sense of how out of sync the middle east is with basic human logic.

Tell me, though, what is"basic human logic"? What defines something being logical?

Here's some logic:
Humans exist because God made us.
Humans exist because we have evolved from the tiniest one celled organism over hundreds of millions of years.

Depending on who you are, either one of those can sound logical. In the same sense, one of those can sound illogical.

Equating all as the same is the biggest fallacy in the human psyche today.

A differing point of view does not ALWAYS equate to being right or equal claim to logic. Child Molestors have a different point of view. Kenneth Lay had a different point of view. Genghis Kahn had a different point of view. That doesn't mean they are/were right..just skewed.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

11/06/2006 12:41:32 PM · #39

Originally posted by DanSig:

when a man is hanged the spinal cord is severed within 1/10 sec after the rope tightens, so he won't feel a thing, however, if he's lucky and chokes to death at least he will have sex with him self for the last time, as men tend to ejaculate just before they die by suffocation, so it's a win win situation for Saddam ;)

If they get the rope too long, his head will pop completely off.

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11/06/2006 12:55:29 PM · #40

Originally posted by hokie:

Originally posted by bigalpha:

Originally posted by hokie:

Just read Al Jazeera (the leading news agency in the Mid-East) and I think you get a good sense of how out of sync the middle east is with basic human logic.

Tell me, though, what is"basic human logic"? What defines something being logical?

Here's some logic:
Humans exist because God made us.
Humans exist because we have evolved from the tiniest one celled organism over hundreds of millions of years.

Depending on who you are, either one of those can sound logical. In the same sense, one of those can sound illogical.

Equating all as the same is the biggest fallacy in the human psyche today.

A differing point of view does not ALWAYS equate to being right or equal claim to logic. Child Molestors have a different point of view. Kenneth Lay had a different point of view. Genghis Kahn had a different point of view. That doesn't mean they are/were right..just skewed.

You are right, of course, about differing views. Just because I think the world if flat, doesn't make is so; and, in reality, is completely false. However, when defining "right", "wrong", "skewed"; it is necessary to keep in mind what exactly you are talking about. When talking about cultural values, you cannot always define "right", "wrong", "skewed".

If I think it's wrong to use birth control because I'm Catholic, does that mean you, as an Atheist/Agnostic/Snake Tamer/or whatever you are, have to agree with me? No, of course not, because we hold different views on something that cannot be declared "right" or "wrong" because there is no "right" and "wrong" to it.

Apple iPhone 5

11/06/2006 12:58:22 PM · #41

What an excellent job the propaganda machine has done in demonising Saddam Hussein.

All this hatred spewing out towards someone you've never met, and has never done anything to you. In fact the only place you've ever seen or heard anything about him is through your media.

Which explains the responses on this thread.

Spork99

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11/06/2006 01:03:40 PM · #42

Originally posted by bigalpha:

If I think it's wrong to use birth control because I'm Catholic, does that mean you, as an Atheist/Agnostic/Snake Tamer/or whatever you are, have to agree with me? No, of course not, because we hold different views on something that cannot be declared "right" or "wrong" because there is no "right" and "wrong" to it.

Now I'm singing:
"Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate."

jonr

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11/06/2006 01:04:47 PM · #43

Originally posted by hokie:

Originally posted by jonr:
Stupid. It will probably make him a martyr. And hanging? Aren't we supposed to drag Iraq into the 21st century?

Yeah! We should be killing him with lasers or, at the very least, heavily saturated fat products from McDonalds!

That is just evil!!!

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

11/06/2006 01:05:04 PM · #44

Originally posted by jhonan:

Yeah, in person, I'm sure he's a swell guy.

11/06/2006 01:05:40 PM · #45

Originally posted by jhonan:

You are right, of course, because the fact that he murdered, mutilated and tortured thousands, perhaps millions of Iraqis isn't enough for me to hate him.

Mr. jhonan, I ask you, do you not think that someone who has engaged in "crimes against humanity" should be taken to a court of law? Even if he didn't kill thousands of Iraqis and he only killed one out of cold-blood; do you think he shouldn't be punished for what he did?

Which responses are you referring to?

Message edited by author 2006-11-06 13:06:46.

Flash

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11/06/2006 01:28:04 PM · #46

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Originally posted by Flash:
[quote=jmsetzler]

Why would you support the death of an innocent unborn and oppose the death of a convicted murderer? If you support capitol punishment then it seems to me that you should accept other forms of "choice" death including the right to self defense and even euthenasia.

If you want to discuss that in a separate thread, I'll happily elaborate.

Fair enough. I'm certain the opprotunity will present itself.

Regarding this specific thread on the capitol use of death for Saddam, ones position of support or objection typically lies in the individual's philosophy of "justified" death - (pro or con). The apparent position that a state execution is unjustified due to the "death" of the convicted, simply doesn't square when the same individual can justify other forms of life taking.

I applaud those convinced that any form of life taking is objectionable. It is the "exception" cases that leave me confused.
[edit to add] Similarily, I applaud those convinced that forms of life taking are acceptable. Again as long as consistency is used.

Message edited by author 2006-11-06 13:35:16.

GeneralE

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11/06/2006 01:35:21 PM · #47

Originally posted by bigalpha:

An eye for an eye, I say.

Which carried to its ultimate, logical conclusion means we'll all end up blind. Whatever happened to the teachings of Jesus, who said "turn the other cheek?"

Article from The Indepemdent.

So America's one-time ally has been sentenced to death for war crimes he committed when he was Washington's best friend in the Arab world. America knew all about his atrocities and even supplied the gas - along with the British, of course - yet there we were yesterday declaring it to be, in the White House's words, another "great day for Iraq".

Article from the Asia Times Online.

The verdict on Saddam Hussein is in. He is guilty of "crimes against humanity" and is sentenced to death by hanging. His trial was generally regarded as devoid of fairness and was highly political. Even the timing of the announcement of the verdict was driven by the US mid-term elections.

Flash

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11/06/2006 01:38:51 PM · #48

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by bigalpha:
An eye for an eye, I say.

Whatever happened to the teachings of Jesus, who said "turn the other cheek?"

In my book he also says; "sell your cloak and buy a sword"...

GeneralE

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11/06/2006 01:49:50 PM · #49

I've found that a sword is the perfect tool for slicing a watermelon ...