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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> FREEDOM, THE AMERICAN FLAG TOPIC
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 09/14/2003 07:30:16 AM · #26
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
Originally posted by joannadiva:
Originally posted by Jon Lucas:

However, when I heard the news that Bush had shirked his nation's responsibility to partake in the Kyoto treaty (with the US accounting for 25 percent of the world's CO2 output) it was for me a symbol of greed, self-interest and ignorance - which may demonstrate how a nation's people can me misrepresented by its elected administration

Elected?!?!?!?!?
Now there's a debate!


Ain't that the truth, guess the rest of the world doesn't know about the Florida election scandal.

I think they do - I actually forgot to put quotes round the word 'elected'!

Message edited by author 2003-09-14 07:35:37.
 09/14/2003 08:06:54 AM · #27
Originally posted by joannadiva:
FREEDOM, THE AMERICAN FLAG .....

Is it a symbol of freedom? or is it only a symbol of freedom because we were brainwashed from the first grade when we were made to "pledge allegiance to the flag"

Rant complete.
Flame away!


You hit the nail on the head........teach a child from birth any one thing they will grow up believing it, even when its not true.



09/14/2003 08:25:13 AM · #28
Maybe we could move this thread to the Rant forum. I deactivated that forum in my profile so I wouldn't have to listen to ChrisW123's knee-jerk, US-is-always-right name calling, and Hoogie's knee jerk America-bashing. (And his condescendingly telling us what we've been taught in our educational system.)

Please, take it to the rant forum.
 09/14/2003 09:04:40 AM · #29
this forum seems to show you exactly what is meant by that symbol. And that is all it is. You can say, (pretty much) do (within the law), and think what you feel and believe. Everyone believes in something different and in different ways. Can't people understand that? Just like a study with 10 people witnessing the same (staged) crime committed. They all saw and interpreted it differently, even the perp.
 09/14/2003 09:41:32 AM · #30
Ok look at it this way.

I am a VERY patriotic Canadian. I have been representing my country as a Public Servant for over 10 years upholding and enforcing Canadian Laws and regulations. I am also proud of the Canadian flag.

However, if I were to submit a beautiful shot of a Canadian flag similar to many entries of the US flags in the past, I would undoubtedly receive quite a few low scores by the simple fact that some people would not feel the same way I do when I see my national flag in a meaningful shot.

You also have to understand that some people see the taking of a flag picture as an easy cop-out. Hmmm... let's find something the represents Patriotism, Pride, etc. Oh... there's the flag . Unless it's done in a VERY creative manner, it just doesn't cut it for many of us.


09/14/2003 09:43:44 AM · #31
Originally posted by Hoogie:
Originally posted by joannadiva:
FREEDOM, THE AMERICAN FLAG .....

Is it a symbol of freedom? or is it only a symbol of freedom because we were brainwashed from the first grade when we were made to "pledge allegiance to the flag"

Rant complete.
Flame away!


You hit the nail on the head........teach a child from birth any one thing they will grow up believing it, even when its not true.


Maybe you should just come to the United States and learn a few things before you start your bashing! I've been very quiet while you went at Chris now its my turn if you are going to say somthing isn't true then maybe you should

A. State exactly what you feel is not true to avoid misunderstandings.

B. Make sure you are completely informed before saying something isn't true.

C. Go crawl under a rock and hide from the nasty frightening American's you seem to think we are.

D. Or you could show your own pride and take a photo of the New Zealand flag, trust me, we as American's are not going to ridicule you for showing pride in your country as you have done to us here!

E Do all of the above.
09/14/2003 11:29:52 AM · #32
Why can't we all just.......get along??? Peace!! :)
 09/14/2003 11:48:24 AM · #33
Originally posted by christyrack:
Why can't we all just.......get along??? Peace!! :)

 09/14/2003 11:49:13 AM · #34
Jon Lucas - Please READ my comment about the South Pacific theatre of WWll, and the repulse of the Japanese military forces. Nothing was said about the European theatre, nor the heroic defense by the British people against the onslaught of Nazi Germany. My war was in the Pacific, and my comment is completely accurate.
Two of my close British friends flew Spitfires in that war, and Winston Churchill is one of my personal heroes.
When I speak, it is as an American who is proud of his service in war, and of his flag. I hope you will tell us about your service to your country, and why you are proud of your flag.
 09/14/2003 12:39:37 PM · #35
heh i guess i am one of the few americans that when i think of freedom it isnt a picture of the US flag .. but a photo of other things...
 09/14/2003 01:13:25 PM · #36
Originally posted by Hoogie:
Originally posted by joannadiva:
FREEDOM, THE AMERICAN FLAG .....

Is it a symbol of freedom? or is it only a symbol of freedom because we were brainwashed from the first grade when we were made to "pledge allegiance to the flag"

Rant complete.
Flame away!


You hit the nail on the head........teach a child from birth any one thing they will grow up believing it, even when its not true.


What would you suggest as a representative of freedom? The Revolutionary War provided us with freedom from the Crown. The flag was always there. Even if I had not been "indoctrinated" into thinking the flag was a representative of American freedom, I am sure I would have come up with the same feeling on my own.
 09/14/2003 02:03:38 PM · #37
Please help me understand other points of view. Question: If citizens are not to pledge allegence to their homeland, and it's representative flag, who shall we align ourselves with? A one world government? Or perhaps, some think we shouldn't line up with anyone...each individual an island to themselves?

From my perspective, a country's citizens have many ties that bond them, and I don't really see why one would want to gripe and complain about their common bond. I wouldn't go around to the neighbors and moan and complain about my family. All families have problems or issues to address, and so do nations, and, for that matter, churches.

The ones who do the most complaining publicly, are they different from the so-called religious people who are accused of prosylitizing? Apparantly human nature wants to convince others that THEIR way is right. So-called liberals, free thinkers, aren't some of them just as passionate about "converting" people to their way of thinking?

A pledge of allegience is brain-washing? So then, all teachings are a form of brain-washing? Where is the line drawn? What are the boundaries? Teaching children to love is good! Teach them to love, God, family, nation, church, the earth and it's inhabitants, and oh yes, themselves.

For the record, the greatest freedom I enjoy, as a member of humanity, is my freedom to love. I'm even free to love those who persecute me for my faith. Hatred is bondage. I want no part of it.

09/14/2003 02:40:42 PM · #38
Originally posted by JEM:
Jon Lucas - Please READ my comment about the South Pacific theatre of WWll, and the repulse of the Japanese military forces. Nothing was said about the European theatre, nor the heroic defense by the British people against the onslaught of Nazi Germany. My war was in the Pacific, and my comment is completely accurate.
Two of my close British friends flew Spitfires in that war, and Winston Churchill is one of my personal heroes.
When I speak, it is as an American who is proud of his service in war, and of his flag. I hope you will tell us about your service to your country, and why you are proud of your flag.

Many apologies for any misconstrued comment JEM, but I saw no mention of a Pacific-exclusive reference there.
 09/14/2003 02:44:01 PM · #39
I am not American, so that flag does not mean freedom to me. Rather all these pictures with an American flag and bibles (freedom to be Christian in a predominently Christian society?)represent lack of originality and a certain laziness of thought - the same as the endless crayolas in the Colors challenge a couple of months ago. Seeing one nearly identical shot after another made me a bit uneasy about the level of indoctrination in everyday life. Aren't there anything else that sets you free?
 09/14/2003 03:09:41 PM · #40
Jon Lucas - My comment is Pacific-exclusive because that is where you look to find Australia and New Zealand.
That is why I did not remark on the killing in Europe, Asia, Africa or even the North Pacific.
 09/14/2003 03:15:40 PM · #41
Originally posted by Gracious:
A pledge of allegience is brain-washing? So then, all teachings are a form of brain-washing? Where is the line drawn? What are the boundaries?

If you look at it objectively, it is. The Pledge is a contract binding one to the service of one's country. In the US, children are not considered mature enough or capable of the kind of independent thought which will allow them to enter into contracts. If they are not old enough to sign a rental or sales agreement, then I don't think they are not old enough to pledge their "lives, fortunes, and sacred honor" to their country. To make them stand daily and recite the words of a contract we deem them incapable of understanding is in fact a commonly-used form of indoctrination, if not brainwashing.

Now, if their parent or guardian were to stand in the classroom and say "I pledge the life of my child until they are eighteen ..." it might be a different story, as would actully discussing what the pledge really means.

Message edited by author 2003-09-14 15:16:37.
 09/14/2003 03:17:10 PM · #42
"Photograph what Freedom means to you." Is what the challenge said. Galina, No where did it state that we were to find something universal that everyone would most definetly relate to to represent freedom. What we had here was an opportunity to understand what freedom meant in all the cultures represented here on DPC. Evidently there are many who chose their flag, and their faith, because they represent the greatest freedom for them.

I'm looking forward to seeing how "original" your submission is. Most likely I'll learn something, because I am open, and care about other people. :-)
I can't speak for other nations, but I can speak from my own experience, that in America we are free to be ANY religion. Also free to not have a denominational label stuck on us, free to be a Christian and NOT be religious. Being a christian is not, as you may suppose, a religion you're born into. It is a personal decision to follow Jesus Christ.

I know it's difficult to comprehend, but my life took a drastic turn when I turned to Christ. I've never regretted the decision to follow him rather than religion. It was the religious people who tried to stop Him when he walked this earth, and not the people who received hope and faith from him, as I have.

Peace!
 09/14/2003 03:20:08 PM · #43
Quote "I am not American, so that flag does not mean freedom to me. Rather all these pictures with an American flag and bibles (freedom to be Christian in a predominently Christian society?)represent lack of originality and a certain laziness of thought - the same as the endless crayolas in the Colors challenge a couple of months ago. Seeing one nearly identical shot after another made me a bit uneasy about the level of indoctrination in everyday life. Aren't there anything else that sets you free?"

Hindsight is always 20/20. When the voting begins and we can see all of the entries than it is obvious which themes are used the most but that is not the case to each individual photographer while they are choosing their photo. It may not be unoriginal to them and that is what matters.

T

Message edited by author 2003-09-14 15:22:57.
 09/14/2003 03:20:32 PM · #44
Originally posted by JEM:
Jon Lucas - My comment is Pacific-exclusive because that is where you look to find Australia and New Zealand.
That is why I did not remark on the killing in Europe, Asia, Africa or even the North Pacific.

I know that(!) - but I just read too much perifeal reference into it, so apologies for that.
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