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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> Useless comments - tilted horizon
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 06/21/2006 09:16:47 PM · #51
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by SJCarter:

ROFLMAO


Quit using his name in vain. ;oP


No, no, it's used in homage! :)


Afraid of the angry villager, eh? :D


I have a strange aversion to pitchforks and things that cause the fire department to arrive...
 06/21/2006 09:21:04 PM · #52
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by SJCarter:

ROFLMAO


Quit using his name in vain. ;oP


No, no, it's used in homage! :)


Afraid of the angry villager, eh? :D


I have a strange aversion to pitchforks and things that cause the fire department to arrive...


hehehe, all in good fun
 06/21/2006 10:14:25 PM · #53
Tilting horizons is like tilting at windmills. If you're going to do it, make sure you tilt them enough so folks know you're serious. Nothing worse than having a loved one believe you're not serious for not tilting enough at windmills.

Message edited by author 2006-06-21 22:14:48.
 06/21/2006 10:29:40 PM · #54
Originally posted by margiemu:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:


Ken, you definately have a unique take on life.

When I wrote my final paper for my freshman "core course" at UCSC, I typed one page on a slant, and had another page where my next-door neighbor sat in as "guest author."
 06/21/2006 10:36:57 PM · #55
Tilted horizons usually bother me, but this thread got me looking - I did find an example with a tilted horizon which scored in the top 1% and for which none of the comments complained about the tilt:

06/21/2006 10:46:47 PM · #56
I was just thinking about this topic the other day..in processing this shot I left the horizon the way I found it..there was a hill, and I simply like the slope..I did get a comment regarding the tilt...and it really left me wondering, whether it is a case of us (the viewers) seeking a clean view of the landscapes..ie(too busy, that branch shouldn't be there etc.) or whether photos themselves need to be free of distractions due to their size...
I often read comments suggesting the shot would be better without what is there..it simply makes me wonder.
06/21/2006 10:49:43 PM · #57
Interesting thread.

My two cents: It's all about the art. Depends on the image.
Sometimes you want it tilted, sometimes you don't.

Sometimes the viewer sees it the other way though. That's art.

Good thing we're not all the same!

Click on.
ralfw
 06/21/2006 11:03:56 PM · #58
I read somewhere that our eyes are highly sensitive to very slight misalignments in the vertical and horizontal for straight lines... that is why split prism focusing was so popular for so long...

I personally find that most misalignments in photos posted in submissions are very minor (someone else mentioned 1-4 degrees, I would probably extend that to 0.2-4 degrees)... and do not contribute to the shot overall.

In the 30second challenge, I think there were at least 10 shots that I saw that were misaligned by small amounts... Considering that there is a tutorial on how to fix this and it only takes a second, this is a bit disappointing....

Having said that, my submission has a tilt on it, but it's intentional... I'm still hoping that people don't look tooooo closely to a certain area of it... :)
 06/22/2006 08:46:55 AM · #59
This is a favorite quote on tilt from photographer, Garry Winogrand:

"What tilt? There's only a tilt if you believe that the horizon must be parallel to the horizontal edge. That's arbitrary."

Example:World's Fair
 06/22/2006 12:03:30 PM · #60
Originally posted by larryslights:
I got a bunch of tilted horizon comments on this one:

Original: ... "Straightened":

I still don't see it. Matter of fact...I don't see a horizon!

You may not see it now either but it is a distraction for those that do. :)

Real or imaginary, intentional or unintentional... those things do not matter when considering a tilted horizon. What matters is whether the tilt supports the composition or acts as a distraction. Anything over .5 degrees can be detected by the discerning viewer. That is basic information every photographer should remember.

When close (within about 10 degrees) there is a natural human tendency to want images to be level. Most viewers will find it distracting if it is not. You need to take that into consideration.

Even if an image has a slight but "real" tilt you should "straighten" it anyway. Most good photographers instinctively check for horizon tilt as a normal part of their workflow and consider how it affects the overall composition.

When acting as a distraction tilt should be corrected. The above case is tilted clockwise between 1.75 and 2 degrees. It is in the natural correction area and does not actively support the composition in an unambiguous way. It needs the counterclockwise correction noted by several commenters.

Example of "real" tilt that still needs correction:


Example of tilt that unabmbigiuously supports the composition:


Example of an image in the grey area - at about 8% - where some humans may still find it in that natural correction zone so hence the conflicting comments. This is a very strong composition without any tilt at all and that adds to the confusion. Consider a greater tilt for this one. The ones that already "get it" still will but a greater tilt will help the ones that don't:


In DPC for entries that you want to score well your intentions should be clear and unmistakable.

Most DPC images with slightly tilted horizons are unintentional and should be corrected. You provide a valuable comment when pointing that out.
 06/22/2006 12:27:46 PM · #61

here it is straightened..really don't like it anymore than the one with the tilt, but realize that I am a little crooked myself...
I do check the horizon tilt, but didn't mind this one..my biggest rule is to leave a shot alone when I like it...
 06/22/2006 12:28:08 PM · #62
Whether someone likes tilted horizons or not, or whether they are 'allowed' or not is a moot point - this is art, and everyone is entitled to an opinion.

However, to call the comment useless... it is another thing. In another threads (about one new thread a week) we whine about low scores left without comments. Now we complain about people leaving tilted comments.

I'll take a 1 with tilted comment over a 2 or 3 with no comment any day! At least I'll know why...
 06/22/2006 01:07:12 PM · #63
Originally posted by margiemu:
I'm firmly in the "gets dizzy from watching a kid on a swing" camp. Lilted horizons tend to totally mess with my balance, and make me slightly sick... not because of the photography - I just get sea sick at the slightest hint of motion.


Maybe if you get them to sing something other than "Danny Boy", that would work better for you?

jejeje�

R.
 06/22/2006 01:30:18 PM · #64
There's a lot of discussion of "horizons" here, but no definition has been offered. Not to be mystical or anything, but there are "horizons" and "horizons", you know? And then, of course, there are "verticals". Someone earlier pointed out that the horizon can be receding from one side to the other, and it will not appear level even if the camera is actually squared up.

So "level" in a horizon is a subjective judgment a lot of the time. Take a look at this one: where's the horizon, exactly? You can draw a variety of different tangents from different points of the slight arc of the marsh grass here...



But it LOOKS level, right? The original was shot with a bubble level to square the camera up, but I had to rotate the image to get a sense of "true level" from it.

R.
 06/22/2006 01:32:01 PM · #65
Some photos have multiple horizons. The horizon isn't necessarily where the sky meets the land. It can also be where the land meets the water or any other of a host of 'layer' separations in the image.
 06/22/2006 01:32:12 PM · #66
Originally posted by srdanz:
Whether someone likes tilted horizons or not, or whether they are 'allowed' or not is a moot point - this is art, and everyone is entitled to an opinion.

However, to call the comment useless... it is another thing. In another threads (about one new thread a week) we whine about low scores left without comments. Now we complain about people leaving tilted comments.

I'll take a 1 with tilted comment over a 2 or 3 with no comment any day! At least I'll know why...


just to clarify..I don't consider such comments useless at all personally...
 06/22/2006 02:09:03 PM · #67
Originally posted by bucket:


just to clarify..I don't consider such comments useless at all personally...


Wasn't directed to anyone in particular, (except perhaps OP), I was referring to the thread title.
 06/22/2006 02:33:41 PM · #68
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
So "level" in a horizon is a subjective judgment a lot of the time. Take a look at this one: where's the horizon, exactly? You can draw a variety of different tangents from different points of the slight arc of the marsh grass here...



But it LOOKS level, right? The original was shot with a bubble level to square the camera up, but I had to rotate the image to get a sense of "true level" from it.

R.

I look at the plane formed by the surface of the water and try to see if that looks "level."
 06/23/2006 04:01:54 PM · #69
Thank you all for your feedback, and want to clarify two things,

1- When i said useless i did not mean to aggravate any one, and i rather receive a comment than not to. What i meant is, that a comment like that is not constructive as it only point out a factor in a picture, it is like if i saw picture with a rose and said 'the rose is red'. The horizon commentis given as a rule, in my opinion an empty rule
In any case to apply rules to photography is, IMHO, contradictory to it's nature, so when people comment only with the 'rule' i find it non-constructive

2- If a pict. has a distracting tilted horizon, so be it, but if a picture has a subject and to present the subject you have to 'sacrifice' the leveled horizon, it would then be silly to comment on it while the essence of the picture is not the horizon.. i don't know if i am making my self clear..

Anyway my favorite quote from the thread:

Originally posted by maryba:
This is a favorite quote on tilt from photographer, Garry Winogrand:

"What tilt? There's only a tilt if you believe that the horizon must be parallel to the horizontal edge. That's arbitrary."

Example:World's Fair

06/23/2006 04:10:22 PM · #70
Originally posted by Pano:
Thank you all for your feedback, and want to clarify two things,

1- When i said useless i did not mean to aggravate any one, and i rather receive a comment than not to. What i meant is, that a comment like that is not constructive as it only point out a factor in a picture, it is like if i saw picture with a rose and said 'the rose is red'. The horizon commentis given as a rule, in my opinion an empty rule
In any case to apply rules to photography is, IMHO, contradictory to it's nature, so when people comment only with the 'rule' i find it non-constructive

2- If a pict. has a distracting tilted horizon, so be it, but if a picture has a subject and to present the subject you have to 'sacrifice' the leveled horizon, it would then be silly to comment on it while the essence of the picture is not the horizon.. i don't know if i am making my self clear..

Anyway my favorite quote from the thread:

Originally posted by maryba:
This is a favorite quote on tilt from photographer, Garry Winogrand:

"What tilt? There's only a tilt if you believe that the horizon must be parallel to the horizontal edge. That's arbitrary."

Example:World's Fair


I understand what you are saying but I don't believe the comment "tilted horizon" is given just to point out something in the picture (like "the rose is red") - but that they don't like the tilted horizon. The comment is telling you something - it's telling you what the viewer didn't like about the picture. no comment at all would not give you that information.
 06/23/2006 04:20:35 PM · #71
I kinda agree with that quote Pano posted. A slight tilt doesn't bother me in the least. I think the reason why it gets pointed out a lot here is because we are all shooting photos ourselves and are trying to find faults in an image when critiquing it. I bet the average person on the street wouldn't even notice it let alone find it so distracting.
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