Advice needed.... please help me make a decision!!

Canon PowerShot Pro 90 IS

04/25/2006 11:13:36 AM · #1

I have donated a print to our local hospital for use to display in their NICU parent waiting area. I also gave them permission to use it in their magazine to be used as a cover and they are going to run a feature story of our experience at the NICU (giving me a tear sheet). It's great publicity for them, but is also great exposure for me. They are printing my copyright information and crediting me and my (upstart) business for the image. Now they are asking me for rights to use it on a foundation brochure they are going to print. Now here's the problem I'm facing. On one hand it's great exposure for me. The local elite will be the ones receiving this brochure and it would be great exposure for me. The big question is, how many times should I allow them to use this image without paying for it? I volunteered the limited use of it to gain some free publicity but now it looks like it could easily get out of hand. I also do not want to offend them by asking for them to pay for rights to an image I volunteered in the beginning. I would like to keep a very agreeable relationship with this hospital because they really are the largest influence on my community. They have a presence everywhere. What would you guys do?

The image in question:

Please help!!!

coolhar

04/25/2006 11:26:58 AM · #2

I would let them use it for the currently proposed brochure but at the same time find a cordial way to let them know that at some point the free use of it should come to an end. Ask them if they have any further uses of it planned and remind them that you are trying to get your business going. Keep communications open as they may want to use you later on a paid basis. But begin to break it to them gently that your photographs have value and their use of the one you donated was not intended to be totally unlimited. I suspect they have some understanding of this as they have come back to you for permission to use it again in the brochure. And while you are letting them use your image again for free ask them if they have any paying jobs that they could use your services for. Our maybe you could work up an offer to let them buy it from you for a fair price and then they could use as they wished. Hope this helps.

BTW, very good image, I can see why they want to use it again.

Message edited by author 2006-04-25 11:30:38.

Prof_Fate

04/25/2006 11:39:42 AM · #3

Ask them the value of what they want to do with it - what would they have paid? Get that in writing as a tax deductiable donation (most hospiatals are no profit).

You also know how much to charge them next time...and of course you ask them "Since you liked my image, want another???????"

You got your foot in the door, so push a tad further. They know your work, they like your work. Beyond that it's a personality thing - they like you you get work, they don't and you go away poor.

PhilipDyer

04/25/2006 11:44:21 AM · #4

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Ask them the value of what they want to do with it - what would they have paid? Get that in writing as a tax deductiable donation (most hospiatals are no profit).

Unfortunately, that's not how tax deductions work in this instance. You are only allowed to deduct the actual costs of the resources you used to produce the image. If someone paid a specific amount for an image and then donated it to a non-profit, then that person (or company) would be able to deduct the full amount.

lwkimages

Canon EF 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5 II USM

04/25/2006 11:49:38 AM · #5

This is one image, and - as you indicated - you have an upstart business. If it were me, I'd let them use the image as often as they want, free of charge, with just one condition: They always credit you with the work.

I can't think of a better way to get "free" publicity for my new business. What an awesome credential and potential for exposure! Subsequent work, even for the hospital, can be negotiated.

ReallyColorBlind

Canon EOS-70D

04/25/2006 12:00:46 PM · #6

Sometimes, donations are worth more than money. Do you do a lot of photograhpy business? I'd say if you make a good portion of your income from photography, then you have to draw the line somewhere. If you take a lot of pictures and occasionally sell a couple, then I would let them have the brochure rights as well.

The real question you have to ask yourself is "do I want to make money on every photo op that comes my way", or "are there instances where I want a particular photo to reach out and touch someone's life, without worrying about a financial reward?"

Ultimately, you will have to make the choice. If you give it some good honest thought, I'm sure you will make the right choice (for you).

Good Luck with your decision.

Elvis_L

04/25/2006 12:02:02 PM · #7

Is that your child? If so I wanted to share a couple of photos of my son 3 years ago

and my wife's entry of him in color studio portrait now

I can't give much advice on the business side other than to say if the hospital that saved my son's life wanted a photo of mine they could use it as much as they wanted as long as i was credited. with that said I would hit them up to BUY another one from you.

04/25/2006 12:08:38 PM · #8

All very good points. I do have a desire to move toward a career in photography so that I can eventually (hopefully) work from home and be around for my son (the model in the picture). I also am very attached to this particular image and do feel a little "dirty" asking for money for an image I wanted to donate in the first place. I also don't want to be a free ride for them. So far all of their requests have been for "higher causes" ie. telling a story of the care given in their NICU and for charity events to fund programs for the NICU. I guess I should consider the exposure payment enough and be thankful that this particular image could possibly help contribute to a greater good. I'll maintain rights to the image and as long as it doesn't get too out of hand and they continue to ask for permission I will allow them to use the image. The minute I find my son slapped up on a billboard somewhere though I will be inclined to change my tune. Thank you for the advice. It's been very helpful!

04/25/2006 12:14:08 PM · #9

Originally posted by Elvis_L:

Is that your child? If so I wanted to share a couple of photos of my son 3 years ago...

Wow, quite a change huh? I'm am constantly amazed by how far we've come in just one year. It was less than a year ago I was praying for a "cordless baby" so that we could hold him without being tied down to the isolette. Now I'm praying for a leash I can put on my son to keep him from getting into everything!!! :-)

Prof_Fate

04/25/2006 12:17:22 PM · #10

Originally posted by PhilipDyer:

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Ask them the value of what they want to do with it - what would they have paid? Get that in writing as a tax deductiable donation (most hospiatals are no profit).

Unfortunately, that's not how tax deductions work in this instance. You are only allowed to deduct the actual costs of the resources you used to produce the image. If someone paid a specific amount for an image and then donated it to a non-profit, then that person (or company) would be able to deduct the full amount.

are you sure? $2 for an 8x10 print is a weenie of a deduction. I thought it was the recipient that decided the value? If i give a bag of clothes to goodwill i get a deduction but realistcally what are those clothes worth? they may sell 1/2 of them and throw the other half out.

I did some photography for a non-profit and my tax man told me my time (labor) was of no value, deduciton wise. But this is for use rights - that must have some value.

LoudDog

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

04/25/2006 12:19:27 PM · #11

Just ask the hospital for a receipt for the amount you would want for the photo and give it to your tax guy next April. I'd have the receipt say unlimited use, and put $2,000 as a price on it. That will save you about $600 in taxes next year (depending on your tax bracket) and you get to feel good for donating the photo plus you get lots of exposure.

Message edited by author 2006-04-25 12:20:31.

Elvis_L

04/25/2006 01:21:49 PM · #12

Originally posted by Palmetto_Pixels:

I know what you mean. the last 3 and half years have flown by but I will never forget those 4 months. and I am not sure anything is as scary as the at home hearbeat monitor that false alarms every couple of hours. we live in a small town now but when we move back to a big city my wife is thinking of volunteering by taking photos of the babys for those familys that don't have cameras or too distraught.

04/25/2006 01:27:55 PM · #13

Originally posted by Elvis_L:

my wife is thinking of volunteering by taking photos of the babys for those familys that don't have cameras or too distraught.

You may want to check in to Now I Lay Me Down To Sleep. I just signed on as a photographer. Check this thread for details.

Elvis_L

04/25/2006 02:45:28 PM · #14

Originally posted by Palmetto_Pixels:

Originally posted by Elvis_L:
my wife is thinking of volunteering by taking photos of the babys for those familys that don't have cameras or too distraught.

You may want to check in to Now I Lay Me Down To Sleep. I just signed on as a photographer. Check this thread for details.

thanks for the link. my wife and I will look into it but we are an hour and a half from the nearest NICU. I saw your post on the other thread, my son had the laser surgery on both eyes and just got his glasses a few months ago.

robs

Canon EOS R6 Mk II

04/25/2006 02:58:03 PM · #15

- On the use side, I would probably let them use it this time but try to plant the bug that it's not a permenant license and that you are trying to start a business. I know it's tough to seperate the emotional attachment to the photo but that will never change to you anyway.

- I would also thank them for coming back for permission - They obviously understand they cannot use it for anything and that is a plus IMO.

- If you plan to do portrait work then it's not a bad idea getting your name attached to photos of this type anyway. Maybe sure the web-site has a copy of the tear-sheet. If you don't have their permission to use it for advertising then get that as part of them reusing the image - they get it for free this time still and you get to show the image on their cover on the web-site.

- On the tax side, talk to a tax person - I am almost positive that Phillip is correct on the value of the deduction in this case. There are rules for artworks that differ from material goods.

PhilipDyer