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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Are you people arty?
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 04/18/2006 01:32:47 PM · #1
I've been taking photos for 2 years now, on and off, and I've noticed the lack of tolerence from some of the voters. Most of my pictures are very arty and surreal because I, the arty farty rock-star, took them. Some of the voters say it's better this way or the other and it makes me fustrated. I don't want people to tell me how they would have taken the picture. If I submit a picture with the sky highly over exposed I would think the users here would think ( :) ) "Ohh, yeah, he was trying to over expose the sky beacause it makes the picture surreal in every way."

I'm not only talking about my pictures at all, some of the users here post wonderful images time after time but never get any credit because the image is not 'mainstream windows xp looking'-crap.

Am I talking out of my ass or making any sense at all?

If so I ask you to think about this the next time you vote, please be tolerent and give us "artists" some freedom. I would like to challenge some of you to get rid of the tripod and loose your self in various poses photographing in crazy angles.

Artistic freedom would change this site to the better.

Have a good life.... Bergieman

(sorry for my english, im terrible writing in english)
 04/18/2006 01:44:34 PM · #2


BTW, I know Art when I see him.

Message edited by author 2006-04-18 13:45:54.
 04/18/2006 02:18:55 PM · #3
Keep on truckin'. I checked out your challenge photos. I think you're the type who takes chances. I love some of the photos and not others, but it's great that you're risking it. Don't stop.

If you adjust to get good votes, you are learning conformity. It may help to get paying photo gigs, but if you have any other ambition it will do no good and possibly screw up your instincts. I've learned some specific skills in the search for votes, such as sharpening, curves and levels in photoshop, and checking my histogram to make sure my exposure is right. That's a good thing, a very good thing. But if I started doing things like not cropping the subject to the edge or removing "noise" or "strange lighting" then I've gone too far. It would be good if DPC voters had some fine arts background so they would understand what a good composition is and be open to more options with color and lighting, but most of them clearly do not, and we art farts just have to deal with it. When I feel like I'm done learning, I might just have to take my Team Suck banner and go home.

edited to add Team Suck banner:

Message edited by author 2006-04-18 14:21:26.
 04/18/2006 02:20:12 PM · #4
p.s I've seen Art and Leroy josh people who complain about scores, but they themselves stick to their guns and don't pander. :P
 04/18/2006 02:24:11 PM · #5
hahaha posthumous, are you ripping off the "team outcasts" logo?

R.
 04/18/2006 02:25:27 PM · #6
I deny everything!!

:P
 04/18/2006 02:26:14 PM · #7
Originally posted by bergwalters:
Most of my pictures are very arty and surreal...

That's what you think, and you're certainly entitled to your opinion. However, it doesn't mean everybody has to agree with you.

Originally posted by bergwalters:
Some of the voters say it's better this way or the other and it makes me fustrated. I don't want people to tell me how they would have taken the picture

Then you're displaying your work in the wrong place. DPC is all about sharing ideas/opinions on what makes a good photograph. Therefore, when you submit your work to a challenge, you implicitly agree to hear your fellow photographers' ideas on how they would have worked the scene/subject etc.

Originally posted by bergwalters:
If I submit a picture with the sky highly over exposed I would think the users here would think ( :) ) "Ohh, yeah, he was trying to over expose the sky beacause it makes the picture surreal in every way

Again, if that's what you expect, then evidently you have chosen the wrong audience to present your work to, as this audience doesn't seem to agree with you. So, it's up to you to either find a way to express yourself and communicate with the DPC audience better or go and find another audience that shares your opinions, instead of presuming to impose yourself and your views on everybody else.

Originally posted by bergwalters:
I'm not only talking about my pictures at all, some of the users here post wonderful images time after time but never get any credit because the image is not 'mainstream windows xp looking'-crap

If they are bothered by this too, then they need to find another audience as well. And speaking of crap, these days any good old crap can be, and is being, passed off as art. Just call it modern art, or better yet call it postmodern art and nobody can argue with you. So obviously, one man's art is another man's crap. All you need to do is find the audience that likes your "crap", just as I try to find the audience that will appreciate my "crap".

Originally posted by bergwalters:
If so I ask you to think about this the next time you vote, please be tolerent and give us "artists" some freedom

Tolerance is mutual. You give the voters the freedom to disagree with you, and I'm sure that most voters will have no problem giving you your artistic freedom.

Originally posted by bergwalters:
I would like to challenge some of you to get rid of the tripod and loose your self in various poses photographing in crazy angles.

I'll do my work any way I please, you do yours any way you please, thank you very much.
 04/18/2006 02:27:43 PM · #8
Some people say I'm arty, more people say I'm farty.
04/18/2006 02:28:32 PM · #9
As for the "art" issue, more or less by definition "art" appeals to subsets of the whole. Some like "Pop Art", some like "Impressionism", some like "Photorealism", whatever. "Artists" that are worth their stripes don't create for a particular audience, they create for themselves. In DPC challenges, on the other hand, to do well we have to appeal to a very broad cross section of tastes.

For this reason, "art" udnerstandably doesn't "sell" well in challenges. This is just a fact of life, and it does not reflect poorly on the voters; andy one truly "artistic" image will find a number of voters that really likeit, but usually an equal or greater number that dislike it, and they tend to cancel each other out.

The secret to "scoring well" in challenges is to minimize the number of negative reactions an image elicits. This is NOT how one goes about making "art", so the two don't coexist well.

R.
 04/18/2006 02:33:14 PM · #10
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
one truly "artistic" image will find a number of voters that really likeit, but usually an equal or greater number that dislike it, and they tend to cancel each other out.

The secret to "scoring well" in challenges is to minimize the number of negative reactions an image elicits. This is NOT how one goes about making "art", so the two don't coexist well.

R.


In that, I've learned to accept one votes as acknowledgement that I made the voter feel something.
 04/18/2006 02:35:45 PM · #11
Nope! We are all a bunch of closed minded boobs that can't think outside of the box.
 04/18/2006 02:37:10 PM · #12
Bear,

There is much truth to what you say, but I am not convinced it is the whole truth. I think there is an unfortunate voting trend, where voters do not simply score based on what appeals to them, but rather try to impose objective criteria. Unfortunately, these criteria are meant to be used holistically. Focus, for example, may want to be a little soft for one picture, sharp for another. As another example, sometimes it works to put the subject dead center and not on the "thirds." Then there are criteria that just make no sense at all, like the subject having to be completely within the frame. Where do people come up with this stuff? My observations, btw, are based on comments I receive.

Secondly, someone might like Impressionism simply by studying it a while. The same goes for Expressionism or Abstract Expressionism or any other movement or genre of visual art. Education can expand one's taste. And with sufficient education, one's mind might be flexible enough to enjoy a completely new trend.

Ah, but my conclusions are the same. One must adapt or score low, because I have no solution for educating the voters or making them think holistically (except maybe if I can force them to draw with their left hands once a day?).

04/18/2006 02:38:24 PM · #13
I'm not closed minded about boobs. Oh yeah sorry! :-P
 04/18/2006 02:38:52 PM · #14
I'm not, but this guy is. ;)
 04/18/2006 02:39:26 PM · #15
p.s. in these discussions it always interests me how certain people consider themselves of the voters and other people consider themselves other than the voters, even though presumably we all vote.
 04/18/2006 02:45:17 PM · #16
Tycho, you're my hero.
Well put. Thank you!
 04/18/2006 02:55:50 PM · #17
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
I'm not closed minded about boobs. Oh yeah sorry! :-P


I'm with him.
 04/18/2006 03:05:40 PM · #18
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
I'm not closed minded about boobs.


To quote Homer, "mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm boobies!!!!!!"
 04/18/2006 03:32:35 PM · #19
*I'M* arty.. got it?!!?

Thanks laurie. lol
 04/18/2006 04:11:13 PM · #20
I don't know if I'm arty, but I sure am farty...
 04/18/2006 05:45:51 PM · #21
I try to remember that the judgment of art has many contexts. Viewing audience is one of them, of course, but so is the current state of photographic art as a whole. If you take a picture that no one has ever taken before and call it art, it will likely be more well received by the artistic community than the image that was once fresh and new but, in the art world, has been done a million times over.

So, while this site rewards technically sound photos that are perhaps trite and repetitious of past works, it also tends to thrust upward very artistic photos which are extremely original in photographic technique/subject/imagery. In contrast, work that is artistic in the photographer's eye and yet nothing new in an artistic context is severely handicapped in the voters mind.

Kowtowing to voters on this site is not "selling out" in my mind, it's just an exploration in what appeals to the masses. And in that thought, my DPC portfolio in no way represents my artistic sensibilities.

Or so I see it.
 04/18/2006 06:05:01 PM · #22
I vote on whether I like a shot or not. A great non-arty shot will get a higher score from me than an average arty shot. There is a thread started by Ennil whose shots are pure art. There are several I would give 10's to if they fit the challenge (of course they probably would not be legal, but they are awesome). I do get tired of the insinuations that if a voter does not like your (or whoever is whining) art they are uneducated, unknowledgable, and just wrong. It is this kind of thread that cuts down on comments. I really think there should be a box to check when entering a challenge to say you do/do not want comments.
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