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04/17/2006 02:55:01 PM · #101 |
Agree 100% with what Steve just said.
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04/17/2006 02:57:15 PM · #102 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Agree 100% with what Steve just said. |
I love it when you talk Texan! You are my kinda woman. ;)
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04/17/2006 03:00:37 PM · #103 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Agree 100% with what Steve just said. |
Me too...
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04/17/2006 03:17:04 PM · #104 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Originally posted by Melethia:
Agree 100% with what Steve just said. |
I love it when you talk Texan! You are my kinda woman. ;) |
Heh. I'm not really a Texan, but I can't afford to be a Californian... It's already in the mid to high 90s here. Not looking forward to summer at all! |
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04/17/2006 03:25:05 PM · #105 |
Originally posted by Beetle:
Originally posted by posthumous:
I think it is a more tangible way of rewarding commentors than most of the other suggestions offered. Band-Aids work very well for cuts and abrasions when used properly. |
It doesn't stop the complaining and attacking that happens too often for comments that are anymore negative than: "brilliant" |
No, it doesn't, but it does offer a counterbalancing reward, which does address the O.P. even if it ignores the main branch of responses to the O.P.
And I'm down with O.P.P. (Original Poster's Problem) |
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04/17/2006 03:34:37 PM · #106 |
What annoys me is when you get people complaining about lack of comments and when you check their profile they have made under 10 comments since 2003! How does that work then??!!
I agree with Bear's comments on this one - more exposure in the forums
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04/17/2006 03:50:53 PM · #107 |
From quickly scanning through this thread, it seems to me that most people making comments simply want it acknowledged that they have taken the time to do so, while some photographers find that, in their opinion, not every comment is helpful, and so do not show any acknowledgement that they have even read the comment by checking the helpful box.
Why not make a simple change to the wording of the current box to something like:
"Photgrapher has read this comment."
While the wording will not let the commenter know whether their opinion was valued by the photographer, it does at least let the commenter knows his/her effort has at least been read. It would not take a lot of effort on the part of the photographer to click that box after reading the comment.
Some people seem to forget that learning not only takes place from receiving comments but from giving them too. Reading some of the earliest comments that I made, I now tend to think "What was I thinking when I said that!" :), but making them helped my learning process.
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04/17/2006 03:59:13 PM · #108 |
Originally posted by Prism:
Some people seem to forget that learning not only takes place from receiving comments but from giving them too. Reading some of the earliest comments that I made, I now tend to think "What was I thinking when I said that!" :), but making them helped my learning process. |
In which case, commenting should be its own reward, rather than if the photographer clicked the 'attaboy' box.
I don't see that changing the text beside the box is going to make people any more or less willing to click it. Some use it, some don't. That isn't likely to change much. If you make the meaning of the check box less meaningful, probably even fewer people will bother using it and consequently you'll have more annoyed commenters, not less.
I pretty much click the 'helpful' for most comments I get, except for ones that I read through my 'latest comments' form on my profile, because there isn't any way to mark those as helpful, other than by clicking through to each picture and marking each comment individually.
As that is a pain, I tend not to mark those comments.
Message edited by author 2006-04-17 16:00:22. |
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04/17/2006 04:19:22 PM · #109 |
Originally posted by "naldslc":
If everyone just voted on say 20 or so images and did make a comment then would we have an effective voting scheme in challenges? |
I know you weren't trying to call me out. And if everyone voted/commented only on 20 images or so...no, we'd not have an effective voting system.
But let's look at the past few weeks.
Best Of 2002 - 200 entries
Textures IV - 310 entries
Children's Toy - 294 entries
Refraction of Light -161 entries
Yellow III - 403 entries
Total Entries: 1368
Requiring a minimum of 273 votes. Yes, you might say that you don't need to vote on all challenges. But regardless, someone else has too. Sure, I could vote one challenge in it's entirety but that means four challenges would not be voted on.
No votes.... = no comments
I think it'd be better to allow "Votes with Comments" to count and weight.
A big part of the problem with voting on 500+ entries is the time. And the largest part of that is in waiting for each image to load. I'd much rather have 5 images load, score them all and then hit a vote button. I used to do something similar in that I would have two windows open and alternate between the two as I voted. While one loaded I'd vote on the other, and bounce back. When the changes to the voting system code occured I was no longer able to do that.
I'd like to vote. Heck, I'd like to see all the images. But if I don't get that 20% *poof* all my effort is gone. 250 votes = nothing. I know it was to encourage more voting and to discourage just voting for your own photos or your friends.
*shrug*
Or maybe one can earn some sort of brownie points so that their votes count even if they don't get 20%.
I also know it's not just me... but there are a lot of others who feel like they can get thru all the voting requirments.
Another thought, why not a monthly email that shows you all the comments you've received. There's been times I've gotten comments on old entries that I've only discovered months later. I don't think many people check their comment stats and so once the challenge ends they don't ever notice additional comments. Or maybe, "You've received 8 new comments" in the side-bar.
I actually like the helpful cause it helps me make better comments.
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04/17/2006 04:25:23 PM · #110 |
Excuse me if I misunderstand something here, but isn't the 20% rule in place to eliminate/reduce people voting only on their favorites? I think it may also be in place to reduce troll voting as well.
If you allow votes to count with a comment and eliminate the 20% rule, then all it would take to make your vote count is a simple attaboy comment (i.e. "Nice shot"). |
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04/17/2006 06:43:05 PM · #111 |
OK... I have read the entire thread now so it's time for my two cents. I believe it would be detrimental to the site to make it possible for people to enter challenges and not recieve comments on their shots. I believe that this would totally change the environment that is DPC. Perhaps we need to add a clause to the rules that states that photos entered into the challenges will likely recieve comments that may be of a positive, negative or critical nature. If people do not wish to recieve comments they should reconcider the choice to enter the challenges.
This site was founded on the principals of learning and sharing knowledge of photography. If people do not want to participate in that learning and sharing of knowledge of photography, there are countless sites that they can go and post photos. There are even other competition based sites.
Please don't change the core foundation of this site or I believe the site will crumble...
Edited for clarity...
Message edited by author 2006-04-17 18:44:53. |
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04/17/2006 07:00:25 PM · #112 |
We seem to be off on a tangent. My interest in creating this thread was not to solicit suggestions on ways to reduce comments or about voting. It's about trying to increase constructive comments in general. Lets stay on track.
As others have said giving comments can be just as helpful as receiving them so if we can entice more comments that will be a good thing. There has already been some good suggestions made about improving this. Are there any others?
Edited for clarity.
Message edited by author 2006-04-17 19:01:20.
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04/17/2006 07:01:45 PM · #113 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
If you allow votes to count with a comment and eliminate the 20% rule, then all it would take to make your vote count is a simple attaboy comment (i.e. "Nice shot"). |
Few people are going to just commment "atta boy"...
And Yes, it is to reduce trolling and probably ensure more voting coverage. But that said, voting is down per member. And likewise commenting. And I personally would like to see more commenting.
I know in my earlier challenges (2004) I see around 250 - 300+ votes. Now, most of the challenges I see 150 votes sometimes less and sometimes more. But definitely seems to be down about 1/3 to 1/2 the number of votes.
And I think by allowing commented votes to count (and I've already mentioned a 50 character minimum could be instituted) would greatly increase commenting.
- Saj
Message edited by author 2006-04-17 19:02:45. |
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04/17/2006 07:08:32 PM · #114 |
This is a kind of off the wall suggestion. But what about if we eliminate the thumbnails page altogther in voting. That way people can't just skim through thumbnails to find things that look interesting to vote/comment ont. If you wanted to vote or comment you'd have to see the photos in a random order. And maybe after you vote or comment they can be viewed again in thumbnail form.
I'm sure people will hate this idea, and I'm not even sure I'd want to see it happen, but it would lead to a more even distribution of comments and votes and end the need for that 20% voting rule. |
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04/17/2006 07:16:08 PM · #115 |
Originally posted by ecdillon:
This is a kind of off the wall suggestion. But what about if we eliminate the thumbnails page altogther in voting. That way people can't just skim through thumbnails to find things that look interesting to vote/comment ont. If you wanted to vote or comment you'd have to see the photos in a random order. And maybe after you vote or comment they can be viewed again in thumbnail form.
I'm sure people will hate this idea, and I'm not even sure I'd want to see it happen, but it would lead to a more even distribution of comments and votes and end the need for that 20% voting rule. |
Actually, it is an interesting idea. The only photos you can see in thumbnail are those that you have voted on already and your own entry (if you entered). When you jump in to start voting you can have a button to "vote" or select one of the already voted on images.
That would certainly stop the skimming. But it may reduce the number of overall votes even more.
Message edited by author 2006-04-17 19:16:36. |
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04/17/2006 07:18:47 PM · #116 |
I have no complain about comment to me get it on all my picture I post and also I give comment. ice
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04/17/2006 07:30:49 PM · #117 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
If you allow votes to count with a comment and eliminate the 20% rule, then all it would take to make your vote count is a simple attaboy comment (i.e. "Nice shot"). |
Few people are going to just commment "atta boy"...
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You're right, but they will say "Nice shot". Or to meet 50 chars, something like "asdfafasdgatqwerqwerasdfsdfa5qeasfdsasdfasff..." you get the idea. There are multiple ways to circumvent, and unfortunately the ones that will are the ones that rules are needed for. ;^) |
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04/17/2006 07:33:23 PM · #118 |
Originally posted by dleach:
... Actually, it is an interesting idea. The only photos you can see in thumbnail are those that you have voted on already and your own entry (if you entered). ... |
Well, quite often I'll go in and just comment without voting, and I like to do it using the thumbnail view. If I had to go thru all of the images to comment (no thumbnail view) I'm sure I wouldn't, or would do so less frequently.
I say we need to keep the thumbnail view. Please, and thank you. ;^) |
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04/17/2006 08:20:47 PM · #119 |
I leave a lot of comments on the other forums I frequent and I had planned on doing the same thing here as I went through the challenges. But after going through one challenge, I realized that trying to meet the requirement of how many votes have to be made as well as trying to leave as many comments as I could, just wasn't going to happen very often. The challenges here have too many entries to really do it right. And like it was mentioned in a previous post, I'm not going to start voting and leaving comments if I can't reach the magic number before I run out of steam or time and then lose them all. So I haven't voted or commented on any of the challenges since.
Eventually, the challenges are going to get so many entries that it will collapse under it's own weight. Unless there are a lot more people that have nothing to do than go through the challenges and vote. But then if you get the same people voting all the time, you are going to get pretty close to the same results all the time.
Rather than have all these mega entry challenges all the time, why try a few limited one... say 100 entries and submissions closes and voting starts? Now only would it make it more manageable for those voting and leaving comments, but it adds to the challenge of getting your entry done and in before all of the slots are used up. You have to be good AND fast.
Anyway, it might be politically incorrect in not voting or entering challenges, but I like the site and I try to join in in other ways...like leaving comments to topics like this. Well, maybe my comments aren't that helpful, but I'll leave it anway. ;D
Mike |
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04/18/2006 08:04:28 AM · #120 |
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04/18/2006 09:43:48 AM · #121 |
Originally posted by yanko:
My interest in creating this thread was not to solicit suggestions on ways to reduce comments or about voting. |
We have sort of been focusing on voting, but comments after voting can be just as helpful. I like the previous idea of being able to order challenge results by number of comments. I'd definitely use that to be able to quickly judge who really needs comments. (Just like I have recently been looking at the bottom of results and favoriting pictures that are good but may not have met the challenge, etc. I like being positive.) |
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04/18/2006 09:55:33 AM · #122 |
I know what ya mean! I've got over 400 comments given, but only 100ish received. ZIPES!
But I'm kinda ok, I've gotten some pretty helpful comments in there.
Really, you don't need too many comments to be helpful, just a couple...
I appreciate the though and do my best to return comments, even if I didn't find them helpful. |
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04/18/2006 10:35:57 AM · #123 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
You're right, but they will say "Nice shot". Or to meet 50 chars, something like "asdfafasdgatqwerqwerasdfsdfa5qeasfdsasdfasff..." you get the idea. |
No they won't, why would they waste their time. And if so, they'll do it on what....one or two photos. Not a real big deal.
I really think this is way way way way less of an issue than what would be resolved. IMHO!
Originally posted by klstover:
We have sort of been focusing on voting, but comments after voting can be just as helpful. |
Who's got time to go comment AFTER voting. There's another challenge that needs voting if not two!
Message edited by author 2006-04-18 10:37:44. |
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04/18/2006 10:38:52 AM · #124 |
Originally posted by eschelar:
I know what ya mean! I've got over 400 comments given, but only 100ish received. ZIPES |
Similarly,
1461 given
683 received |
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04/18/2006 10:44:57 AM · #125 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Who's got time to go comment AFTER voting. There's another challenge that needs voting if not two! |
I do. But then again, I don't vote as much as others, I'm sure, because I'm on dialup. |
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