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Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

04/17/2006 01:34:38 PM · #76

I've never been much of a fan of the helpful box. For a long time, I didn't use it because it was a feature that was created after I'd been here for awhile and the total lack of consistency made me not really see much use in it. But then people started assuming that if you don't check the box, you don't appreciate the comments which isn't at all true. So now I check it for pretty much everything because I appreciate nearly every comment I receive, regardless of its degree of helpfulness.

I'm not sure that making a "this comment was read" box an addition to the helpful box would help anything. People are still likely to be upset that their comment wasn't marked as helpful, even if it was marked as read. I'd rather just completely do away with the helpful box altogether. I think a quick scan of the comments someone has given can easily determine how helpful they are.

I just thought of another suggestion - what if we had the option to sort challenge results by number of comments received? Perhaps if it was easier to quickly locate photos that had received few or no comments during the challenge, people would be more willing to leave them comments afterwards?

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

04/17/2006 01:36:14 PM · #77

one stat i would like on the image page would be a break out of comments received during the challenge and comments received after the challenge...

Kavey

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

04/17/2006 01:36:29 PM · #78

Originally posted by mk:

I'm not sure that making a "this comment was read" box an addition to the helpful box would help anything. People are still likely to be upset that their comment wasn't marked as helpful, even if it was marked as read. I'd rather just completely do away with the helpful box altogether. I think a quick scan of the comments someone has given can easily determine how helpful they are.

Seconded.

04/17/2006 01:38:12 PM · #79

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by Apollo2077:

I feel like you're putting words in my mouth now! All I ask for is for them to justify their comment - nothing more, nothing less...

I'm not putting words in your mouth. You wrote "I just challenged the comments by asking why they thought my photo did not meet the challenge, and I also gave my perspective on why I entered my photo in the challenge" and said that people didn't like it when you do this. I'm simply pointing out that, regardless of your intention, this may be received poorly and seen as an attempt to have your vote changed. People may respond better if you contact them after the challenge. That's all.

Yes I see your point, but if people don't like it they should be hidden during voting, or hidden during voting should be mandatory during voting. I feel you put words in my mouth (or actions) by saying that I'm trying to have my vote changed when contacting people during a challenge.

smilebig4me1x

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

04/17/2006 01:40:17 PM · #80

Originally posted by mk:

I just thought of another suggestion - what if we had the option to sort challenge results by number of comments received? Perhaps if it was easier to quickly locate photos that had received few or no comments during the challenge, people would be more willing to leave them comments afterwards?

But that would almost be the same as the placement list. If i choose to go back thru a challenge to leave helpful comment i alwayss scroll to the bottom of the list and work my way up. while the ribbon winners get ton of "this is great" comments the ones at the bottom rarely get a single word about WHY they placed where they did.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

04/17/2006 01:40:58 PM · #81

Originally posted by Apollo2077:

If you re-read my posts, you'll see that I did not say that's what you were trying to do. I said it can be VIEWED that way. I was trying to offer you a possible explanation to help the issue you were complaining about. I can see that it's not going anywhere though so I apologize for getting into it.

theSaj

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

04/17/2006 01:42:02 PM · #82

Originally posted by naldslc:

I don't feel that 20% is too much to ask for really. I don't see the need to change that.

That's fine, than don't complain about a lack of comments. Cause, you're not likely getting one from me nor numerous others.

I think my idea to count any vote with a comment is a simple solution. Hey, maybe make it so that the comment has to be at least 50 characters to count as a vote. Whatever...

But I'd give a lot more comments if I voted, I'd vote a lot more if my votes were counted. Frankly, I just don't have the time to waste and not reach a 20% and find all my votes discounted.

Don't believe me....well...look at my recent voting record compared to my past record. Hey my past wasn't stellar but it was decent. My present is almost non-existent.

Message edited by author 2006-04-17 13:44:17.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

04/17/2006 01:43:18 PM · #83

Originally posted by smilebig4me1x:

Originally posted by mk:

I just thought of another suggestion - what if we had the option to sort challenge results by number of comments received? Perhaps if it was easier to quickly locate photos that had received few or no comments during the challenge, people would be more willing to leave them comments afterwards?

But that would almost be the same as the placement list. If i choose to go back thru a challenge to leave helpful comment i alwayss scroll to the bottom of the list and work my way up. while the ribbon winners get ton of "this is great" comments the ones at the bottom rarely get a single word about WHY they placed where they did.

I think it's actually more the mid-range results that get fewer comments but yes, you're right - it would probably follow the placement list pretty closely.

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

04/17/2006 01:46:55 PM · #84

Originally posted by goldenhawkofky:

If you really want more comments make them manditory in the voting process or your vote doesnt count...

My lord........Considering that I have voted on almost every image in every contest since I became a member, I do believe I would have been a tad busy.

Regardles... would comments like "Great", "Astounding" and the like suffice......I think not.

Ray

04/17/2006 01:48:23 PM · #85

Well I think it's safe to say that the comments made during voting is an issue for lots of us, and needs to be resolved somehow. I feel that a new fairer system of grading should be used. We could for example grade similar to how ice-skating is graded. Have a grade for artistic merit, and one for technical merit, and the combined scored can be the total score for that photo. What do others feel about this?

Beetle

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/17/2006 01:53:48 PM · #86

Originally posted by Apollo2077:

In the case of DPC, you'd have to add an on-topic merit to that list, too.
Isn't that sort of thing starting to get too complicated and time consuming again?

Artifacts

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/17/2006 01:54:05 PM · #87

Originally posted by deapee:

I'm not going to lie -- I stopped making 'informative' comments because people stopped checking them as helpful.

Do you really believe that checkbox actually means something?

Here is a way to tell for sure if the mark of 'helpful', or lack thereof, on a comment means anything....

Find a good constructive comment you made that you think should be marked 'helpful'. Bring up the image and look to see if any other comments made on it were marked helpful. If not, then the lack of a check means nothing. If most of the others are marked helpful but yours is not then it means something.

Personally, I leave it up to the photographer to decide if a critique I make of an image is helpful or not. Whether they find it helpful (and I never check) is of lesser importance to me than what I learn from making the critique in the first place.

joebok

Fujifilm X100F

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED

04/17/2006 01:54:26 PM · #88

Read the first and the last few posts - but on the original question:

Originally posted by yanko:

I know this has been beaten to death already but where have the constructive comments gone?
...

I was just thinking how pleased I was with the constructive comments I got on my way non-spectacular "Refraction" entry.

I don't think the system is broken - the helpful people will continue to make helpful comments, the trolls will continue to do whatever they do...

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

04/17/2006 02:00:09 PM · #89

I calculate that the words posted in this thread could have comprised the contents of about 1,462 typical comments on photos.

04/17/2006 02:07:20 PM · #90

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by Apollo2077:

Yes I see your point, but if people don't like it they should be hidden during voting, or hidden during voting should be mandatory during voting. I feel you put words in my mouth (or actions) by saying that I'm trying to have my vote changed when contacting people during a challenge.

If you re-read my posts, you'll see that I did not say that's what you were trying to do. I said it can be VIEWED that way. I was trying to offer you a possible explanation to help the issue you were complaining about. I can see that it's not going anywhere though so I apologize for getting into it.

I know what you were trying to say, but I didn't want others to percieve it as such!

Kavey

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

04/17/2006 02:07:46 PM · #91

Originally posted by GeneralE:

I calculate that the words posted in this thread could have comprised the contents of about 1,462 typical comments on photos.

Indeed. But since few here (though certainly some) are indicating that their lack of comments are down to time/ limit on how much they can post - it's not as though each post on this thread is one (or more) comment less on an entry...

smilebig4me1x

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

04/17/2006 02:09:13 PM · #92

Originally posted by GeneralE:

I calculate that the words posted in this thread could have comprised the contents of about 1,462 typical comments on photos.

lol...thats funny...but i have been leaving quite a few comments since the start of this thread, mainly for people who obviously are looking for them too

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

04/17/2006 02:09:16 PM · #93

Originally posted by GeneralE:

I calculate that the words posted in this thread could have comprised the contents of about 1,462 typical comments on photos.

Yes, but how many would have been marked helpful? How many would have gone to those who didn't want them in the first place, therefore being semi-wasted (not totally since there is learning value in making constructive comments).

I get your "tongue-in-cheek" msg. ;^)

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

04/17/2006 02:11:54 PM · #94

BTW - We should pass along a msg to Langdon that he should do away with all forums so the DPChallenge community can spend more time making comments on images. ;^)

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

04/17/2006 02:12:42 PM · #95

Originally posted by Beetle:

Originally posted by Apollo2077:
Well I think it's safe to say that the comments made during voting is an issue for lots of us, and needs to be resolved somehow. I feel that a new fairer system of grading should be used. We could for example grade similar to how ice-skating is graded. Have a grade for artistic merit, and one for technical merit, and the combined scored can be the total score for that photo. What do others feel about this?

In the case of DPC, you'd have to add an on-topic merit to that list, too.
Isn't that sort of thing starting to get too complicated and time consuming again?

Not if we got rid of commenting...

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

04/17/2006 02:16:08 PM · #96

Originally posted by glad2badad:

I get your "tongue-in-cheek" msg. ;^)

I'm glad (too) : )

Nald

Nikon D700

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

04/17/2006 02:16:56 PM · #97

Jay,

I wasn't in anyway shape or form calling you out. I understand that you've got a full plate right now. No worries man. I guess I was just trying to think worst case scenario ya know? If everyone just voted on say 20 or so images and did make a comment then would we have an effective voting scheme in challenges? I'm not sure, I just wanted to put that thought out there.

Sorry if I offended,
Nald

Originally posted by theSaj:

Originally posted by naldslc:
I don't feel that 20% is too much to ask for really. I don't see the need to change that.

That's fine, than don't complain about a lack of comments. Cause, you're not likely getting one from me nor numerous others.

I think my idea to count any vote with a comment is a simple solution. Hey, maybe make it so that the comment has to be at least 50 characters to count as a vote. Whatever...

But I'd give a lot more comments if I voted, I'd vote a lot more if my votes were counted. Frankly, I just don't have the time to waste and not reach a 20% and find all my votes discounted.

Don't believe me....well...look at my recent voting record compared to my past record. Hey my past wasn't stellar but it was decent. My present is almost non-existent.

04/17/2006 02:18:48 PM · #98

Originally posted by LoudDog:

Originally posted by Apollo2077:

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by Apollo2077:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by Apollo2077:
... people don't like it if I challenge their comments cos they think they are always right. ...

That's an interesting observation. If you challenge comments are you not implying that you are the one that's always right? The word challenge, as applied in this context, sounds aggressive. When aggression is used many times the other party will become defensive. It all sounds a bit stressful. ;^)

Actually the comments I challenged are some comments I've been receiving on the Candid challenge. They just wrote "Not Candid", or "DNMC", and left it at that. I just challenged the comments by asking why they thought my photo did not meet the challenge, and I also gave my perspective on why I entered my photo in the challenge. I never said I'm always right, but I suppose I can see how you came to that conclusion!!
I love getting comments both good & bad, but only as long as I can learn something from them.

Recieving negative unconstructive feedback tends to make you feel cornered - and the only way you can go to escape is back towards the person pushing you into the corner....

If you're challenging comments that you receive while the challenge is still in the voting period, that may have something to do with some of the resistance you're feeling. Not everyone enjoys being PMed with a justification of why a photographer feels that their photo fits the challenge as it can appear to be an attempt to sway votes. Just something to think about.

I feel like you're putting words in my mouth now! All I ask for is for them to justify their comment - nothing more, nothing less...

I think "challenge" was a strong word to use. You can ask a commenter a question about their comment and ask them to clarify and that is perfectly okay. I've had people do that to me and I've been glad to elaborate on my opinion for them.
If you PM them saying they are an idiot, they don't know art from a hole in the ground and they have no clue what they are doing, that is another thing.

I agree - challenge was maybe the wrong word to use... I think "queried" or "asked to elaborate" may be better...

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

04/17/2006 02:20:27 PM · #99

Originally posted by langdon:

For the people who don't comment because their comments aren't getting marked helpful, is this feature more harmful than it is good?

I would think it is. There have been quite a few threads complaining about lack of 'helpful' checks in the past. If the option wasn't there, then people couldn't complain about it not being used.

Originally posted by landon:

There was talk previous of an additional checkbox "This comment has been read" or "This comment was appreciated", but I'm wondering if effort there would really help the situation?

I think that makes it worse in general. So you'd have to check 'I read it, it was helpful, it was appreciated' Or check 'I read it, but leave 'it was helpful' unchecked ?

Too many options mean plenty of them won't get used, by accident or by preference. Then, as we can already see, others imply a slight that probably was never intended. Perhaps the person read it, thought it was helpful, but doesn't mark any comments helpful, or thinks it is a silly feature, or doesn't see the value. Maybe if the reader had to explicitly mark it as 'unhelpful' ?

Artifacts