Help me be the boss of my lights

04/03/2006 02:41:54 PM · #1

A few years ago, I was given two AB800s for Christmas. The amount of time that they've spent in the corner, leaning against the wall, is probably sacreligious. I've fared okay with some product shots but recently got them out to attempt my first people shots and am ready to cry uncle. I don't know what to do with my lights.

I don't know how to set them. They seem powerful enough to light a football field. I don't know where to put them. Despite being properly exposed according to the histogram, my shots came out somewhat washed out and completely flat. Once they're set, how do I determine what settings to use on my camera without using a lightmeter? Etc.

Please help me to stop sucking.

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 24-85mm f2.8-4.0D

04/03/2006 02:48:34 PM · #2

Originally posted by mk:

Would you like me to tutor you?

hopper

Canon EOS-80D

Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM

04/03/2006 02:55:42 PM · #3

:)

For Christmas my wife bought me another flash (430ex). I already had the 420ex and ST-E2 ... so naturally I thought my portraits would rock from that moment on.

I was wrong, multiple lights are difficult. So basically I can't help you, just saying I feel your pain.

Originally posted by mk:

Nikolai1024

Nikon D300

04/03/2006 03:17:17 PM · #4

I think the answer is: Softbox

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

04/03/2006 03:19:34 PM · #5

Originally posted by Brent_Ward:

Would you like me to tutor you?

Yes, please. I will make cookies.

Originally posted by hopper:

lol, thanks. :)

ignite

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

04/03/2006 03:21:24 PM · #6

The best thing you can do is to learn about lighting for portraits. Get a book or search the net. You will find a million sites with useful information. Learn the different types of lighting styles, short lighting, long lighting, Rembrandt style etc... Learn how to set up your lights for these styles. Most websites will give you instructions on how and where to position your lights, and what ratios to use. You don't really need a lightmeter for anything. Just get a feel for it and you'll be okay. I hope you have a softbox/umbrella etc for your lights, cause they will help (unless you want a specific style with harsh lighting). Get a wood/plastic model of a face and practice with that. That will allow you to take a lot of pictures, and your model will never get tired, bored, or hungry :-)

I can't help you with your camera setup. If your camera has a PC socket, your life is easier. If not, get a hotshoe-to-pc cord. You will possibly need a safe sync to attach that to your cam hotshoe. A simple flash can also trigger the strobes, but that is not easy to do.

Hope this helps. Wait for more help to arrive. Take care.

faidoi

Pentax K10D

04/03/2006 03:22:25 PM · #7

//dpchallenge.com/tutorial.php?TUTORIAL_ID=31

dwterry

Canon EOS-1D Mark III

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

04/03/2006 03:23:51 PM · #8

Try this for a simple approach:

1) Set up your camera so that you are facing the subject. (duh, but had to say it)

2) Set up your key light so that it is about 45 degrees to the subject (i.e. about half way from camera to subject plane, on either the left or the right of the camera). And have it high enough that it would be at about a 10:00 or 2:00 position to the subject.

3) Set your camera to f/8. Just about any shutter speed will do. Let's say 1/250th since that's the fastest the 20D will sync. (slower lets in more ambient light and can be used to creatively light the subject within the ambience of the location, but 1/250th will pretty much preclude any outside light from interfering with the exposure)

4) Have the subject hold a gray card (you said no light meter) and walk up or zoom in enough that you fill the frame with the gray card and shoot it and reshoot (adjusting power on the strobe) until you get a spike right in the CENTER of the histogram. That is where 18% gray should be, right smack in the middle.

You're half way there. You could shoot with one light at this point and get a good exposure. But the shadows may be a little harsh. So the next step is meant to soften the shadows.

5) Take you're other light and put it right behind the camera. Turn off the first strobe. Set your camera to f/5.6 and shoot until you get a spike in the middle. This sets your "fill light" up.

6) Now turn on both strobes and set your camera to about f/11 (the fill light will be lighting both the shadow and highlight sides, so the exposure has increased). Shoot again and check your histogram. Should be good to go.

Message edited by author 2006-04-03 15:27:02.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

04/03/2006 03:27:13 PM · #9

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by Brent_Ward:

Would you like me to tutor you?

Yes, please. I will make cookies.

Do you have umbrellas or soft boxes?

wavelength

Nikon D300

04/03/2006 03:33:13 PM · #10

Originally posted by dwterry:

wow, I just put things on 45/45degrees and tell people to close their eyes for a bit, but (as usual) I'm a hack.

I think I'll try it your way :O)

04/03/2006 03:34:10 PM · #11

Originally posted by dwterry:

Try this for a simple approach: [...]

Very cool, thank you!

Originally posted by Brent_Ward:

Do you have umbrellas or soft boxes?

Umbrellas.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

04/03/2006 03:35:47 PM · #12

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by dwterry:
Try this for a simple approach: [...]

Very cool, thank you!

Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
Do you have umbrellas or soft boxes?

Umbrellas.

...and how many lights do you have? Do you have a reflector?

dwterry

Canon EOS-1D Mark III

04/03/2006 03:36:53 PM · #13

Originally posted by wavelength:

wow, I just put things on 45/45degrees and tell people to close their eyes for a bit, but (as usual) I'm a hack.

Not sure if you mean in this way.... but it sounds similar to what I used to do when I first got my strobes. Both strobes were out to the sides of the camera (one on left, one on right) both at about 45 degree angles.

The trouble is ... you basically get flat lighting with that arrangement. There is nothing to help define a 3-dimensional subject within a 2-dimensional picture with that kind of light.

But by keeping one light off to the side, now you've got a modeling light that helps define the 3-D aspects of the subject. The trick now is to pose them correctly in order to get the best lighting. But that's a whole different subject!

04/03/2006 03:38:24 PM · #14

Originally posted by Brent_Ward:

...and how many lights do you have? Do you have a reflector?

I have two lights, one white umbrella with removeable black cover, one silver umbrella and one of those small Photoflex foldable reflectors that's half white, half gold.

Message edited by author 2006-04-03 15:38:37.

CarpeNoctem

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

04/03/2006 03:55:17 PM · #15

Originally posted by mk:

I don't know how to set them. They seem powerful enough to light a football field. I don't know where to put them. Despite being properly exposed according to the histogram, my shots came out somewhat washed out and completely flat. Once they're set, how do I determine what settings to use on my camera without using a lightmeter? Etc.

Being washed out means a couple-few things to me.

1. Low contrast - due to over lighting: Solution don't worry about filling every nook and cranny with light.
2. Overexposed - Regardless of whether or not the histogram shows complete tonal range or not - you must expose fair skin in Zone 6 (1 stop MORE exposure than meter says) Shooting by histogram alone may put you in a situation that makes the fair skin @ zone 7 or higher [backgrounds are darker zone 1 / 2 UNLESS lit) Solution: For a few shots forget the histogram, shoot a few as the meter says, shoot a few in Zone 6, and shoot a few by way of histogram
3. Lights are too close - this is unlikely but if you have them too close and/or without diffuse material you may end up with washed out highlights on the skin. Move them back and diffuse them with something; Someone holding a white sheet will work - JUST DON"T BURN the sheet if using hot lights.

A good method to start out with is use just one light. For a masculine shot, place it to the photographers right (or left) so it will illuminate the subject @ a 30-45 degree angle. This will produce harsh shadows.

For a feminine shot place it closer to center line and above the photographer, so it shines on subject at a slight angle - enough to produce a slight shadow under the nose.

Introduce a second light - for a while don't use it as a fill light but rather either a background light or a hair light. Both of these setups are to seperate the subject from the background. I prefer to hair light it - but you will run into times where the subject moves and the hair light, lights the wrong spot (say the fore head). Try to place the hair light back behind the subject at a 45 degree angle opposite your main light. This will show edges completely around your subject.

If you illuminate the background, you really can't mess up. Just make sure to try different things. Focus the light high enough to 'halo' the subjects head, or low enough to NOT 'halo' the head. I prefer not halo.

If you are using hot lights (sorry I don't know your model) you don't have to worry about wierd exposures - just turn them on, set WB for 3200 (to start - the lights will drift) and expose fair skin at one stop more exposure than meter says. You should be good to go.

If you are using flash heads, then you need either a flash exposure meter, or you can trial and error. Just make sure to make the skin Zone 6. It may require you a couple trips back and forth to the computer, but it will work. (FWI: Flash settings of 1/30-1/60 of a second AND f/4.0 f/5.6 is really common and a great setting - not too bright and offensive.)

The slower your shutter - the more the background will be exposed - subjects under flash are only exposed by the flash and hence the apeture controls that. If your subject highlights are completely blown - close down your apeture [higher number], if your subject is under exposed open up the apeture [lower number].

When you want to, have that 2nd light act as a fill light. For hot lights, you do this by moving further from the subject - further than the main light. We won't go in the details about ratios and determining them - frankly because my head hurts. A 1:1 ratio, depending how you look at it will probably mean 1 qty main light to 1 qty fill light, increasing the distance of the fill light, from 10ft to 12ft may give you a 1:2 ratio (2 main : 1 fill)

You can also put gels in front of the lights a bit to do the same thing.

If they are flashes then you have it easy, probably, you can set the power of the fill light to half power to do the same thing. Play with different ratios to experiment with the shadows.

Also, you can put that second light back as a hair or back light and use a big reflector (aluminum foil, stretch a sheet out, etc) to act as a fill light - the smaller the reflector is - the closer it must be to the subject.

This isn't the end all to studio lighting - and I am a beginner myself - so I hope that anyone else would point out errors and fill in some blanks.

-Rick

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

04/03/2006 04:03:29 PM · #16

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by Brent_Ward:

...and how many lights do you have? Do you have a reflector?

I have two lights, one white umbrella with removeable black cover, one silver umbrella and one of those small Photoflex foldable reflectors that's half white, half gold.

Try setting them up like this to start. IT would be nice to have a 3rd light for the hair, but if you use a white BG you might still get a good effect.

Marjo

Canon EOS-7D

04/03/2006 04:04:51 PM · #17

Hey mk! You better jump on that offer from Brent!! I just took an online class on studio portrait lighting this past winter and it cost me $289.00. ;)
Good luck. Looks like you're getting a lot of good pointers.
Without a light meter, it's a lot of trial and error at first.

jemison

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/03/2006 04:23:31 PM · #18

Originally posted by Brent_Ward:

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by Brent_Ward:

...and how many lights do you have? Do you have a reflector?

I have two lights, one white umbrella with removeable black cover, one silver umbrella and one of those small Photoflex foldable reflectors that's half white, half gold.

Try setting them up like this to start. IT would be nice to have a 3rd light for the hair, but if you use a white BG you might still get a good effect.

Brent - I don't get an image with that link. Is it me - or the image?

dwterry

Canon EOS-1D Mark III

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

04/03/2006 04:27:16 PM · #19

Originally posted by Marjo:

Without a light meter, it's a lot of trial and error at first.

I love my light meter. But a gray card and a histogram will work great. It's a whole lot easier than shooting film! :-)

04/03/2006 04:31:28 PM · #20

Originally posted by jemison:

Brent - I don't get an image with that link. Is it me - or the image?

The image...I don't get one either.

04/03/2006 04:33:06 PM · #21

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by jemison:

Brent - I don't get an image with that link. Is it me - or the image?

The image...I don't get one either.

it was cmyk, oops...fixed now.

MWitt