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11/05/2006 05:01:48 PM · #1151 |
Originally posted by bluezamia:
Originally posted by David.C:
Originally posted by hihosilver:
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Message edited by author 2006-11-05 17:02:42.
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11/05/2006 05:11:24 PM · #1152 |
Originally posted by peecee:
Originally posted by bluezamia:
Originally posted by David.C:
Originally posted by hihosilver:
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11/05/2006 06:01:49 PM · #1153 |
1.  james_so
2. David Sidwell (dsidwell ~Sounds fun and enlightening!)
3. MadMan2k
4.  Hihosilver
5.  David.C <-- camera's out of commission so take my vote for what it is worth. I would really like to see the step by step composition focus this thread started with before getting side tracked into post-processing.
6. bluezamia
7. peecee
I would echo earlier requests and like to see more on composition, focus and lens choices/aperatures/speeds etc.
8.  brens29
9. justin_hewlett - Personally I'd like to see more on exposure - perhaps spot metering, and maybe even the Zone system.
Message edited by author 2006-11-05 18:05:14.
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11/05/2006 06:04:14 PM · #1154 |
Originally posted by justin_hewlett:
Originally posted by brens29:
Originally posted by peecee:
Originally posted by bluezamia:
Originally posted by David.C:
Originally posted by hihosilver:
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Message edited by author 2006-11-05 18:04:38. |
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11/05/2006 06:33:28 PM · #1155 |
Originally posted by vikas:
Originally posted by justin_hewlett:
Originally posted by brens29:
Originally posted by peecee:
Originally posted by bluezamia:
Originally posted by David.C:
Originally posted by hihosilver:
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Pineapple
Count me in. |
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11/05/2006 07:04:39 PM · #1156 |
Running List Please "quote" this post and add your name to the list:
1. james_so
2. David Sidwell (dsidwell ~Sounds fun and enlightening!)
3. MadMan2k
4. Hihosilver
5. David.C <-- camera's out of commission so take my vote for what it is worth. I would really like to see the step by step composition focus this thread started with before getting side tracked into post-processing.
6. bluezamia
7. peecee
I would echo earlier requests and like to see more on composition, focus and lens choices/aperatures/speeds etc.
8. brens29
9. justin_hewlett - Personally I'd like to see more on exposure - perhaps spot metering, and maybe even the Zone system.
10. vikas
11. pineapple
12. melethia Though I may not be able to participate much for a month or so, I'd like to follow along. I'd also suggest that you start a new thread rather than add to this one since once they get to a certain length, they start to go a bit haywire. The new thread could have a link to this one for review and continued learning.
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11/05/2006 08:34:51 PM · #1157 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Let's do a shout-out and see how much interest there is in starting the third edition of this thread. I think I can talk Steve Davidson into co-mentoring it with me.
How many would be interested in starting a new landscape learning thread? What suggestions do you have for the new thread, re: topics, areas of focus, how to structure it, etc?
R. |
You bet... this is a great idea. Count me in. I will be more than happy to co-mentor. Landscapes are fun!
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11/05/2006 08:39:52 PM · #1158 |
Running List Please "quote" this post and add your name to the list:
1. james_so
2. David Sidwell (dsidwell ~Sounds fun and enlightening!)
3. MadMan2k
4. Hihosilver
5. David.C <-- camera's out of commission so take my vote for what it is worth. I would really like to see the step by step composition focus this thread started with before getting side tracked into post-processing.
6. bluezamia
7. peecee
I would echo earlier requests and like to see more on composition, focus and lens choices/aperatures/speeds etc.
8. brens29
9. justin_hewlett - Personally I'd like to see more on exposure - perhaps spot metering, and maybe even the Zone system.
10. vikas
11. pineapple
12. melethia
13. stdavidson But only if I can make bad jokes. :)
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11/05/2006 09:46:15 PM · #1159 |
14 nshapiro I'm in but as the winter sets in (and my schedule gets even busier from Oct - Mar) I'll have less time for shooting. But if we can use old examples, that's great. I have lots of unprocessed shots!
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11/06/2006 11:19:11 AM · #1160 |
Looks like we have plenty of interest. Steve has agreed to co-mentor, so we'll have plenty of oversight between the two of us. We are discussing how to structure the thread now. We will start a new thread for this group. The group will not be "exclusive"; that is to say, any community members will be able to chime in and play along, as long as they stay on track. Use of old pictures that apply to the "lessons" will be just fine; this is a good winter activity for those of us int he Northern hemisphere as the cold, gray days descend on us.
Keep adding your names to the list if you want to be considered a "founding member" of the new group :-)
R. |
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11/06/2006 11:23:00 AM · #1161 |
Originally posted by nshapiro:
14 nshapiro I'm in but as the winter sets in (and my schedule gets even busier from Oct - Mar) I'll have less time for shooting. But if we can use old examples, that's great. I have lots of unprocessed shots! |
15 meyers
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11/06/2006 11:26:13 AM · #1162 |
15. siggav
I have somewhat limited landscape areas to go and photograph (don't have a car) but I'd be fun to take part, and when I have the time a good excuse for hopping on a bus to go slightly out of the city. Edinburgh also has a small mountain right in the middle of it which helps. |
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11/06/2006 11:31:09 AM · #1163 |
Running List Please "quote" this post and add your name to the list:
1. james_so
2. dsidwell ~Sounds fun and enlightening!
3. MadMan2k
4. Hihosilver
5. David.C <-- camera's out of commission so take my vote for what it is worth. I would really like to see the step by step composition focus this thread started with before getting side tracked into post-processing.
6. bluezamia
7. peecee
I would echo earlier requests and like to see more on composition, focus and lens choices/aperatures/speeds etc.
8. brens29
9. justin_hewlett - Personally I'd like to see more on exposure - perhaps spot metering, and maybe even the Zone system.
10. vikas
11. pineapple
12. melethia
13. stdavidson But only if I can make bad jokes. :)
14 nshapiro
15. siggav
16. meyers
17. (your name here)
list updated and cleaned up
Message edited by author 2006-11-06 11:32:15. |
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11/07/2006 01:38:41 AM · #1164 |
1. james_so
2. dsidwell ~Sounds fun and enlightening!
3. MadMan2k
4. Hihosilver
5. David.C <-- camera's out of commission so take my vote for what it is worth. I would really like to see the step by step composition focus this thread started with before getting side tracked into post-processing.
6. bluezamia
7. peecee
I would echo earlier requests and like to see more on composition, focus and lens choices/aperatures/speeds etc.
8. brens29
9. justin_hewlett - Personally I'd like to see more on exposure - perhaps spot metering, and maybe even the Zone system.
10. vikas
11. pineapple
12. melethia
13. stdavidson But only if I can make bad jokes. :)
14 nshapiro
15. siggav
16. meyers
17. wanger114
I'd like to join as well ... I'm doing my best to catch up with earlier material.
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11/07/2006 10:31:41 AM · #1165 |
Running list please "quote" this post and add your name to the list.
1. james_so
2. dsidwell ~Sounds fun and enlightening!
3. MadMan2k
4. Hihosilver
5. David.C <-- camera's out of commission so take my vote for what it is worth. I would really like to see the step by step composition focus this thread started with before getting side tracked into post-processing.
6. bluezamia
7. peecee
I would echo earlier requests and like to see more on composition, focus and lens choices/aperatures/speeds etc.
8. brens29
9. justin_hewlett - Personally I'd like to see more on exposure - perhaps spot metering, and maybe even the Zone system.
10. vikas
11. pineapple
12. melethia
13. stdavidson But only if I can make bad jokes. :)
14 nshapiro
15. siggav
16. meyers
17. wanger114I'd like to join as well ... I'm doing my best to catch up with earlier material.
18. prism-I would love to see this going again
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11/07/2006 11:29:13 AM · #1166 |
| 18 * $25.00 = $450.00 that'll almost be a new copy of CS2 for you, Bear! Just kidding. |
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11/07/2006 11:45:13 AM · #1167 |
Originally posted by pineapple:
18 * $25.00 = $450.00 that'll almost be a new copy of CS2 for you, Bear! Just kidding. |
Hah. It ain't the cost of the CS2 that's stopping me (I can upgrade for much less than that); it's the cost of a new, faster machine with an up-to-date windows mounted in it. Plus, the whole point of this site, of course, is to SHARE, not SELL, one's expertise (such as it is). But of course you knew that, you're "just kidding" :-)
R. |
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11/07/2006 11:54:08 AM · #1168 |
Running list please "quote" this post and add your name to the list.
1. james_so
2. dsidwell ~Sounds fun and enlightening!
3. MadMan2k
4. Hihosilver
5. David.C <-- camera's out of commission so take my vote for what it is worth. I would really like to see the step by step composition focus this thread started with before getting side tracked into post-processing.
6. bluezamia
7. peecee
I would echo earlier requests and like to see more on composition, focus and lens choices/aperatures/speeds etc.
8. brens29
9. justin_hewlett - Personally I'd like to see more on exposure - perhaps spot metering, and maybe even the Zone system.
10. vikas
11. pineapple
12. melethia
13. stdavidson But only if I can make bad jokes. :)
14 nshapiro
15. siggav
16. meyers
17. wanger114I'd like to join as well ... I'm doing my best to catch up with earlier material.
18. prism-I would love to see this going again
19. cpanaioti Would like to see this again |
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11/07/2006 11:58:28 AM · #1169 |
Running list please "quote" this post and add your name to the list.
1. james_so
2. dsidwell ~Sounds fun and enlightening!
3. MadMan2k
4. Hihosilver
5. David.C <-- camera's out of commission so take my vote for what it is worth. I would really like to see the step by step composition focus this thread started with before getting side tracked into post-processing.
6. bluezamia
7. peecee
I would echo earlier requests and like to see more on composition, focus and lens choices/aperatures/speeds etc.
8. brens29
9. justin_hewlett - Personally I'd like to see more on exposure - perhaps spot metering, and maybe even the Zone system.
10. vikas
11. pineapple
12. melethia
13. stdavidson But only if I can make bad jokes. :)
14 nshapiro
15. siggav
16. meyers
17. wanger114I'd like to join as well ... I'm doing my best to catch up with earlier material.
18. prism-I would love to see this going again
19. cpanaioti Would like to see this again
20. Gordon Different considerations for composition when shooting for large and small output formats (e.g., web vs large prints) Emotional decisions in presenting a scene. Shooting approaches in the landscape (wait for the light, mad scramble for the scene, work one subject to death vs keep moving) Compositional approaches for wide angle (building a scene vs. stumbling across it, ways to construct scenes, use of rhythm, and other approaches) seeing tone rather than colour. Less emphasis on post processing, more about being present. Me being less verbose.
Message edited by author 2006-11-07 12:00:42.
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11/07/2006 12:17:08 PM · #1170 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
20. Gordon Different considerations for composition when shooting for large and small output formats (e.g., web vs large prints) Emotional decisions in presenting a scene. Shooting approaches in the landscape (wait for the light, mad scramble for the scene, work one subject to death vs keep moving) Compositional approaches for wide angle (building a scene vs. stumbling across it, ways to construct scenes, use of rhythm, and other approaches) seeing tone rather than colour. Less emphasis on post processing, more about being present. Me being less verbose. |
This is worth splitting off and commenting to, I think:
1. "Different considerations for composition when shooting for large and small output formats (e.g., web vs large prints)"
To be honest, I don't consider this at all when shooting; I assume the print is the goal. I consider it when choosing which images to ENTER, certainly, but that's perhaps a different topic and not related exclusively to landscapes. I'm not excluding this as a topic for discussion, but when/if we reach it, that will be further down the road I think.
2. "Emotional decisions in presenting a scene."
As in, "If you want to project s sense of calmness, you need to consider the following compositional devices?" Is that the sort of thing you mean?
3. "Shooting approaches in the landscape (wait for the light, mad scramble for the scene, work one subject to death vs keep moving)."
Plus, of course, the whole concept of using a map, preferably topographical, to PLAN your shooting day in advance :-)
4. "Compositional approaches for wide angle (building a scene vs. stumbling across it, ways to construct scenes, use of rhythm, and other approaches) seeing tone rather than colour."
You consider "seeing tone rather than colour" as integral particularly to WA work? If so, please elaborate. Otherwise, it's an interesting topic, although speaking for myself it's VERY rare that I do any "construction" in shooting landscapes, aside from removing trash from the image when possible and bending foreground vegetation out oif the way as necessary.
5. "Less emphasis on post processing, more about being present."
I tend to not make that distinction; I emphasize "previsualization", the awareness of what you want the finished shot to look like before making the capture. Previsualization includes all aspects of post-capture image creation, and it always has. In B/W large-format work, for example, a huge component of the quality of the image comes from carefully-controlled "post processing" to create the perfect negative for your previsualization. I'm all in favor of extended discussion of light, composition, and other aspects of image dynamics, but the reality of these workshops is that we get the most extended response to PP discussions, and in fact there are very few participants whose images cannot be helped by better PP. Since previsualization includes the PP steps you will take, it follows that improvement of PP skills will expand one's on-the-scene previsualization, so to that extent it's all good.
R. |
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11/07/2006 12:34:21 PM · #1171 |
As long as we're suggesting: I'd like to see a regular emphasis on analysis and discussion of landscapes from professional landscape photographers. For example, we would pick one photo or photographer a week and discuss what makes it a good photo, what considerations and issues might have come into play shooting it, how it's been received by professional critics, etc.
Message edited by author 2006-11-07 12:34:53.
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11/07/2006 12:48:46 PM · #1172 |
21. Thndrdrag I would like to participate if there is room, to better my landscapes and hopefully learn a bit about tone mapping and hdr files that bear is so good at.
Rich
Message edited by author 2006-11-07 12:49:06. |
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11/07/2006 12:54:34 PM · #1173 |
I don't know if we want to get into the whole discussion here, but I can at least flesh out what I'd like to consider:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
This is worth splitting off and commenting to, I think:
1. "Different considerations for composition when shooting for large and small output formats (e.g., web vs large prints)"
To be honest, I don't consider this at all when shooting; I assume the print is the goal. I consider it when choosing which images to ENTER, certainly, but that's perhaps a different topic and not related exclusively to landscapes. I'm not excluding this as a topic for discussion, but when/if we reach it, that will be further down the road I think.
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Compositionally some things work for a large print that don't sing in a small print (or web version) There is a different compositional aesthetic at work. I see/work one way. I struggle to see/work the other way.
Tiny JPEG Fallacy
Small pix and tiny JPEGs
The perils of photographing for web display
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
2. "Emotional decisions in presenting a scene."
As in, "If you want to project s sense of calmness, you need to consider the following compositional devices?" Is that the sort of thing you mean?
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Could be. Effects of white balance on mood. Use of light, depth of field, composition to vary the feel of a shot.
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
3. "Shooting approaches in the landscape (wait for the light, mad scramble for the scene, work one subject to death vs keep moving)."
Plus, of course, the whole concept of using a map, preferably topographical, to PLAN your shooting day in advance :-)
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Sure, and using google earth to preview the topology, variety of almanacs and tools to evaluate twilight times (difference between civil/ nautical etc and their impact on shots). But also how to actually shot in the landscape. Do you find your scene, set it up, compose, tweak and wait for the light to change and make one exposure (which is the best you can then hope to have as a result). Or do you shoot, move, shoot, move, shoot, move, give yourself opportunities to have lots of great shots.
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
4. "Compositional approaches for wide angle (building a scene vs. stumbling across it, ways to construct scenes, use of rhythm, and other approaches) seeing tone rather than colour."
You consider "seeing tone rather than colour" as integral particularly to WA work? If so, please elaborate. Otherwise, it's an interesting topic, although speaking for myself it's VERY rare that I do any "construction" in shooting landscapes, aside from removing trash from the image when possible and bending foreground vegetation out oif the way as necessary.
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No, it was two different things. Wide angle composition is in general 'hard' as you don't see that way. Lens needs to be at your eye. There's a lot of fairly mature ways of constructing scenes for wide angle - find a rhythm, play off of it (e.g., shape of a cloud, find a bush that has a relationship, matching mud cracks to cliff shapes, all that sort of stuff) really helps for wide angle compositions. Otherwise you just have to stumble upon it which isn't very productive.
I'm talking about approaches to constructing the composition, not construction work like removing trash.
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
5. "Less emphasis on post processing, more about being present."
I tend to not make that distinction; I emphasize "previsualization", the awareness of what you want the finished shot to look like before making the capture. Previsualization includes all aspects of post-capture image creation, and it always has. In B/W large-format work, for example, a huge component of the quality of the image comes from carefully-controlled "post processing" to create the perfect negative for your previsualization. I'm all in favor of extended discussion of light, composition, and other aspects of image dynamics, but the reality of these workshops is that we get the most extended response to PP discussions, and in fact there are very few participants whose images cannot be helped by better PP. Since previsualization includes the PP steps you will take, it follows that improvement of PP skills will expand one's on-the-scene previsualization, so to that extent it's all good.
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There's a big difference between previsualisation and realisation of a final vision and the often done 'fixing' of shots taken at a bad time of the day in crappy light. I'd love to talk more about the former and avoid talking about the later at all (if I'm being asked what I'm interested in, which was all I was listing ;) ) Post processing to realise a pre-visualised result is something certainly worth discussing. Transforming a badly exposed shot with a tilted landscape, poor light and uninteresting composition into something passable in photoshop is something I'd rather avoid. Optimising a result versus fixing mistakes. Photoshop mostly seems to be discussed as a way to repair or fix images, but I think those images should mostly be abandoned, rather than fixed. Work on getting the right starting point then make it sing.
Sometimes the way to fix a landscape shot is to go back out there when the weather or light is better. Take it again. Invest some more time and effort in getting the right shot. Aim for something better, than just accepting what you got and patching it up or creating something from not much in the computer. Get the best possible starting point to make the best possible final result. Learning when to throw something away and not bother fixing it is something every photographer should learn. Same with editing (as in throwing away bad shots not as in editing in photoshop)
Message edited by author 2006-11-07 13:30:15.
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11/07/2006 02:50:35 PM · #1174 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
There's a big difference between previsualisation and realisation of a final vision and the often done 'fixing' of shots taken at a bad time of the day in crappy light. I'd love to talk more about the former and avoid talking about the later at all (if I'm being asked what I'm interested in, which was all I was listing ;) ) Post processing to realise a pre-visualised result is something certainly worth discussing. Transforming a badly exposed shot with a tilted landscape, poor light and uninteresting composition into something passable in photoshop is something I'd rather avoid. Optimising a result versus fixing mistakes. Photoshop mostly seems to be discussed as a way to repair or fix images, but I think those images should mostly be abandoned, rather than fixed. Work on getting the right starting point then make it sing.
Sometimes the way to fix a landscape shot is to go back out there when the weather or light is better. Take it again. Invest some more time and effort in getting the right shot. Aim for something better, than just accepting what you got and patching it up or creating something from not much in the computer. Get the best possible starting point to make the best possible final result. Learning when to throw something away and not bother fixing it is something every photographer should learn. Same with editing (as in throwing away bad shots not as in editing in photoshop) |
I hear what you're saying. In the best of all possible worlds we'd all be able to do what someone like me can do easily. I'm retired, I moved to a geographically-contained place where I wanted to live because I love the landscape and the light, and I can keep revisiting the same locations over and over for as long as it takes to please myself, and this is just fantastic.
But for most people, this isn't a viable approach; you have jobs, you have to make specific trips to relatively distant places to shoot your landscapes, you have to deal with spouses and children when you travel, and so forth and so on. So to a very large extent, the "practical" world of landscape photography that we have thus far focused on in here DOES involve post-processing to make the best of what you've got. I don't have a problem with that, myself.
This is not to say that larger issues (especially composition) don't come into play, because of course they do, but...
In any event, I'd be interested in feedback on how most people want to see it divvied up; focus more on the relatively difficult task of creating "perfect" landscape photos, or more on the common real-world task of optimizing the ones we ARE able to capture?
R. |
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11/07/2006 02:55:25 PM · #1175 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
...
But for most people, this isn't a viable approach; you have jobs, you have to make specific trips to relatively distant places to shoot your landscapes, you have to deal with spouses and children when you travel, and so forth and so on. So to a very large extent, the "practical" world of landscape photography that we have thus far focused on in here DOES involve post-processing to make the best of what you've got. I don't have a problem with that, myself.
...
R. |
Word. When my wife and I went to Hawaii for a vacation, my "photography" time was fairly limited, and I was stuck with midday light and overcast days for the most part.
Edit: here's some pictures I took on that trip. I'm sure they could use a lot of processing to look really nice. My photoshop skills are pretty limited. //dpchallenge.com/portfolio.php?USER_ID=56880&collection_id=16673
Message edited by author 2006-11-07 14:57:46.
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