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Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

03/25/2006 07:59:56 AM · #801

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by keegbow:
Ok cool, now could you just let me know what the challenge topic is, it would be greatly appreciated :)

I have it on good authority that Sunday's challenge will be "Waterbirds at Sunset"; does that suit your style?

R.

I was hoping for the Australian Native Waterbirds endemic to the NSW Central Coast feeding at sunset taken with a Canon EOS 20D challenge.

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

03/25/2006 08:00:26 AM · #802

Originally posted by manic35:

Deb! I'm torn. I really want to add to this because it really annoys Matthew, but I can't!!!! Got to support Team Pentax.....

It's a team thing, I understand. Just remember you're still kickin' his butt in Deja Vu. :-)

manic35

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

03/25/2006 08:01:32 AM · #803

Originally posted by Melethia:

Originally posted by manic35:
Deb! I'm torn. I really want to add to this because it really annoys Matthew, but I can't!!!! Got to support Team Pentax.....

It's a team thing, I understand. Just remember you're still kickin' his butt in Deja Vu. :-)

Big time, baby. Big time.

03/25/2006 08:03:22 AM · #804

Originally posted by alionic:

Originally posted by Larus:
I am shivering in my silly little pink boots :P

So that is what you get up to there in Iceland is it?
You have a nice team and an average of 6.1 without your other member We are looking forward to playing you oh so much, just as soon as we 'dust' The 20D crew aside.. WE'RE COMING FOR YOU!! (get your pink boots ready)

"dust" The 20D crew !!! blasphemy !!

Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 EX DC HSM for Canon

03/25/2006 08:03:46 AM · #805

Originally posted by Melethia:

Agree with both sentiments, but since there are at least two challenges available each week to most of the team members, why not say the top five are used?

'Cuz the rules, as currently written, say you have to have 4 team members participating in a given week to qualify for a rating. The number, of course, could be changed. But as it stands now, for example, consider the Team Nikon vs Team 20D matchup forthcoming. Imagine these very competitive camps deciding amongst their own teams that they will pick 4 members only to compete in the first week so as to have the best "chance" of smashing the other team... Librodo, Pedro, Kiwiness all on Team Nikon, all ribbon machines with extraordinary averages...

I'm not saying they WOULD do this, but I'm wondering if it might be healthy to eliminate even the possibility of people feeling like they shouldn't enter 'cuz they'd pull the average down by just saying "X-number of top scores will be used to compute the team's average each week"...

Robt.

GIS_boy

Canon EOS-7D

03/25/2006 08:08:18 AM · #806

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by Melethia:
Agree with both sentiments, but since there are at least two challenges available each week to most of the team members, why not say the top five are used?

'Cuz the rules, as currently written, say you have to have 4 team members participating in a given week to qualify for a rating. The number, of course, could be changed. But as it stands now, for example, consider the Team Nikon vs Team 20D matchup forthcoming. Imagine these very competitive camps deciding amongst their own teams that they will pick 4 members only to compete in the first week so as to have the best "chance" of smashing the other team... Librodo, Pedro, Kiwiness all on Team Nikon, all ribbon machines with extraordinary averages...

I'm not saying they WOULD do this, but I'm wondering if it might be healthy to eliminate even the possibility of people feeling like they shouldn't enter 'cuz they'd pull the average down by just saying "X-number of top scores will be used to compute the team's average each week"...

Robt.

Absolutely, everyone should feel they can enter.

sir_bazz

Pentax K-5

Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4 AF

03/25/2006 08:10:36 AM · #807

We could make it a handicap comp to avoid this.

Each persons handicap would be their current Avg.
If your submission scores a 6.00 and your current avg is 5.00 then thats +1 to your team.

bazz.

GIS_boy

Canon EOS-7D

Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 EX DC HSM for Canon

03/25/2006 08:14:36 AM · #808

Originally posted by sir_bazz:

We could make it a handicap comp to avoid this.

Each persons handicap would be their current Avg.
If your submission scores a 6.00 and your current avg is 5.00 then thats +1 to your team.

bazz.

EXCELLENT idea! How difficult would this be for those that have to manage the weekly scoring for the WPL?

Really great idea, it doesn't matter how good or how bad you are...the focus is about improvement with your own photography, (DPC is written all over this idea).

manic35

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

03/25/2006 08:15:25 AM · #809

Originally posted by GIS_boy:

Originally posted by sir_bazz:
We could make it a handicap comp to avoid this.

Each persons handicap would be their current Avg.
If your submission scores a 6.00 and your current avg is 5.00 then thats +1 to your team.

bazz.

EXCELLENT idea! How difficult would this be for those that have to manage the weekly scoring for the WPL?

Really great idea, it doesn't matter how good or how bad you are...the focus is about improvement with your own photography, (DPC is written all over this idea).

Yep - I'm loving that concept as well. Anyone else?

03/25/2006 08:17:42 AM · #810

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Bear I can see where you are coming from but I doubt anyone would consider this.

I know myself personally with my work commitments that fluctuate and involves travel I may not be able to enter any challenges some weeks which could be seen as an attempt to manipulate the competition but really how do you police something like this.

The only real answer is a handicap scoring system where the team average is worked out before each week and the winner would be the largest increase in team average for that week this would avoid all attempts to stand down lower ranking members.

edit: great minds think alike.. but I did suggest this early in the thread

Message edited by author 2006-03-25 08:19:10.

03/25/2006 08:19:35 AM · #811

Originally posted by sir_bazz:

We could make it a handicap comp to avoid this.

Each persons handicap would be their current Avg.
If your submission scores a 6.00 and your current avg is 5.00 then thats +1 to your team.

bazz.

The trouble with this is, it's MUCH easier to score a point with a 6 off a 5 average than it is to score an 8 off a 7 average. I'd be GOLDEN if we handicapped that way; my average is like 5.4...

The teams that stacked themselves with high-average shooters would be in deep doo-doo if we did this :-)

jejejeâ�¢

Plus this would require a lot of calculation each week, much more than the system in place right now. Although I suppose someone could code it...

R.

03/25/2006 08:22:43 AM · #812

Originally posted by keegbow:

Bear I can see where you are coming from but I doubt anyone would consider this.

I'm not really worried that such collusion would occur. I'm more worried that team members may take THEMSELVES out of a given challenge because they think their submission won't help the team. We completely eliminate that possibility by just using the top scores each week to compute the team average; whatever number we decide upon, if we go that way.

Robt.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

03/25/2006 08:22:47 AM · #813

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by sir_bazz:
We could make it a handicap comp to avoid this.

Each persons handicap would be their current Avg.
If your submission scores a 6.00 and your current avg is 5.00 then thats +1 to your team.

bazz.

The trouble with this is, it's MUCH easier to score a point with a 6 off a 5 average than it is to score an 8 off a 7 average. I'd be GOLDEN if we handicapped that way; my average is like 5.4...

The teams that stacked themselves with high-average shooters would be in deep doo-doo if we did this :-)

jejejeâ�¢

Plus this would require a lot of calculation each week, much more than the system in place right now. Although I suppose someone could code it...

R.

Thats the basis of a handicap system it evens the competition.

If the calculation was done on a team basis it would be no harder to calculate.

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

03/25/2006 08:24:00 AM · #814

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

The teams that stacked themselves with high-average shooters would be in deep doo-doo if we did this :-)

R.

I'm not seein' a problem here...

:-)

03/25/2006 08:27:38 AM · #815

Originally posted by keegbow:

Thats the basis of a handicap system it evens the competition.

If the calculation was done on a team basis it would be no harder to calculate.

That's a good point re: team average makes it easier to calculate.

But even if we do it this way, there's still an incentive for an individual to feel he can best help the team by not entering a given challenge if it's not one he feels he can do well in. Unless you calculate this "team average for handicapping" based on the actual team members who entered, each week, and then it's a lot of work again.

They are two separate issues. I'm not against handicapping, not at all. I just want to be sure we don't have a situation where an individual can feel his team's better off if he doesn't enter a particular challenge.

Robt.

03/25/2006 08:30:33 AM · #816

One more thing: I don't want to seem to be making a big deal out of this; we can do it just as it is set up and see how it plays out; if this becomes a coninuing series, so to speak, we can fiddle with it next time around, if it comes to that. I just thought it was a point worth mentioning; that it might be more 'relaxed" all around if we just used the top 4 or 5 images per team each week...

R.

03/25/2006 08:37:27 AM · #817

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

The top 4 - 5 would probably relax the pressure for members that would feel like standing down,

But I still beleive the handicap system is the only way to run this otherwise if statistics are true the team who starts with the highest average will win the competition. Not that I'm paranoid about who wins I just feel we all would get more enjoyment out of an even competition.