|
| Author | Thread |
|
|
03/16/2006 10:13:27 AM · #26 |
another consideration that you all must look at is, and i think someone had a thread about this not too long ago, talking about pressure and buying a dslr,
anyways, each one of us here on dpc have different needs, some of you do this for a hobby, you love to shoot your children and pets, and go out for walks and take shots, thats what you love to do, and you understant that you dont need the best for that, then there are others who are trying to make a wave in the photography buisness, trying to creat a second income or main income and you need better to compete with the shot around the corner, we all have needs and we knwo what they are, prof-fat i feel posted this because there are new threads almost everyday asking for help and buying a new camera, and its always the same answer,
|
|
|
|
03/16/2006 02:35:52 PM · #27 |
I realize the 300mm lens is very expensive. At this point in life for anything even aside from photography I ask myself, if it's a want or a need. IN this case it's a want, therefore I won't be getting it. Which is why I was looking at the Sigma in the first place. I can spend 200 for a want, can't justify more then that.
I have what I need. Not that it wouldnt be nice to have everything I wanted lol, but but I don't live my life that way. |
|
|
|
03/16/2006 04:52:07 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by eschelar:
I think Prof is referring not to the overall number of lenses for the Olympus system, but more to the number of lenses that are somewhat affordable. There are VERY few 3rd party offerings in this niche and anything with ZOOM past 200mm is going to cost a FORTUNE!
|
I still don't get the OP's point though. No manufacturer makes a fast prime longer than 300mm, (that is reasonably priced) or offers a good fast long zoom, (that is relatively cheap).
Even if they did it would probably be garbage as price and quality generally go hand-in-hand.
Here's an example of 600mm f4's which demonstrates they're all available an all expensive.
cheers,
bazz.
Message edited by author 2006-03-16 16:54:35. |
|
|
|
03/16/2006 06:03:35 PM · #29 |
Didn't see that at b&h...but did see this 90-250 2.8 - for $6,000. Like i said, a small market for the lenses, so the price is high. You could get a similar lens and a canon body for the same price or likely less - you saved nothing and still have the drawbacks.
|
|
|
|
03/16/2006 06:12:21 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by missinseattle:
I just had to post this. Not to argue your point pro-fate. But not all of us need all those lenses you've listed. Contrary to what you have posted Olympus does have quite a few lenses.
olympus lenses |
I think i counted 17 lenses. More than I thought they had.
Canon offers 60, and add in sigma, tokina and tamron yo uget 20- or 30 more - and that's just current offerentings. The EOS system is 20 years old - canon has produced over 3 million lenses over that time and many can be had used, for very little money.
If the camera and their lenses work for you then great! and no, generally we don't need every lens out there, but it's nice to have options, if not also very frustrating!
You need a 500mm for a canon? Tamron makes 1, sigma 3 more and canon 2 more yet ranging in price from $760 to $5500. And there are used options too.
|
|
|
|
03/16/2006 06:14:19 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Didn't see that at b&h...but did see this 90-250 2.8 - for $6,000. Like i said, a small market for the lenses, so the price is high. You could get a similar lens and a canon body for the same price or likely less - you saved nothing and still have the drawbacks. |
Keeping in mind the 2.0x crop factor of the 4/3's system, which lens is the canon equiv of this one ? It would need to have a 35mm equiv of 180-500mm f2.8.
I had a quick look on the Canon USA site and couldn't see anything.
cheers,
bazz. |
|
|
|
03/16/2006 06:20:17 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by sir_bazz:
Originally posted by eschelar:
I think Prof is referring not to the overall number of lenses for the Olympus system, but more to the number of lenses that are somewhat affordable. There are VERY few 3rd party offerings in this niche and anything with ZOOM past 200mm is going to cost a FORTUNE!
|
I still don't get the OP's point though. No manufacturer makes a fast prime longer than 300mm, (that is reasonably priced) or offers a good fast long zoom, (that is relatively cheap).
Even if they did it would probably be garbage as price and quality generally go hand-in-hand.
Here's an example of 600mm f4's which demonstrates they're all available an all expensive.
cheers,
bazz. |
overall lenses to a point, used items - options in general.
Need a flash? Do you want mroe than one or 2 choices?
Macro lens? What length? what brand? Do you want choices?
Used lenses? For used equipment, where you can save the most money overall instead of buying new, there are only 2 real choices.
Like I said, this may not matter to you. I can't say for sure where my photography interests will be in 5 years, or 6 months for that matter. I do know with Canon I can get what i need to do whatever i can imagine. And if i need one lens to do that , i buy just that lens. I don't have to switch systems or buy into a second system for that lens (or flash or what have you). So i save money in the end, with no limits on my creativity imposed by my tools.
|
|
|
|
03/16/2006 06:27:11 PM · #33 |
Prof, did you wake up and decide I'm gonna slam Olympus/Pentax etc. today and talk about how bitchin' Canon is and why everyone in their right mind who wants a DSLR should pick Canon or Nikon?
|
|
|
|
03/16/2006 06:29:11 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Prof, did you wake up and decide I'm gonna slam Olympus/Pentax etc. today and talk about how bitchin' Canon is and why everyone in their right mind who wants a DSLR should pick Canon or Nikon? |
Where do you get this from, thats obsured !!!
Prof_fate simply put out some intristing information.
|
|
|
|
03/16/2006 07:14:37 PM · #35 |
I don't wan't to appear abrasive but your posts in this thread just wreak of ignorance.
Infact taking this thread one step further, if saving money is a priority you'd be much better with a different system as the most popular brand today is generally the most expensive and has the least backwards compatability, (excluding the 4/3's system).
Lenses:
There is one brand that allow you to use over 200 "historical" made for film lenses, whilst at the same time having a larger "made for APS-C" lens lineup than your current brand. And guess what...you don't need an adapter to use them.
Flashes:
They have camera bodies which will work with older TTL flashes as well as current ones that require pre-flash. This alone gives you a choice of any hotshoe flash that was made in the past 25 years.
2nd hand equipment.
Generally speaking, it's much harder to find a 2nd hand bargain for the most popular brand. Because of it's popularity there are a much greater number of people trying to find these bargains. Conversely, there is much less competition for the 2nd hand goods of other makers and bargains are more prolific.
Macro lenses:
As I alluded to in an earlier post, third party lenses, (including macros), are made for all mounts so this isn't an issue. When looking only at OEM macro lenses the choices aren't that different and are usually a 50mm, 100mm and a 200mm. Everyone has a reasonable selection to choose from and it's hard to make a bad macro lens.
The problem with looking 5-6 years into the future is that circumstances are always changing. Just ask anyone who was developing their own film ten years ago. Now having said all that, each manufacturer usually offers something unique in their lineup and this differentiation is what consumers should be basing their purchasing decisions on. To buy a brand because they say they offer a "system" is naive at best.
cheers,
bazz. |
|
|
|
03/16/2006 07:22:30 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by awpollard:
Start saving now...that 300mm 2.8 is going for a cool $6,999.... |
geee, what a bargain :/ |
|
|
|
03/16/2006 07:41:08 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Prof, did you wake up and decide I'm gonna slam Olympus/Pentax etc. today and talk about how bitchin' Canon is and why everyone in their right mind who wants a DSLR should pick Canon or Nikon? |
Perhaps I was referring to the Samsung GX-1S?
|
|
|
|
03/16/2006 07:43:08 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Perhaps I was referring to the Samsung GX-1S? |
Perhaps you were. But even then I'm sure you know that the Samsung is infact a rebadged Pentax so you can use all Pentax lenses/accessories on it without a problem.
cheers,
bazz. |
|
|
|
03/16/2006 08:01:18 PM · #39 |
I don't wan't to appear abrasive but your posts in this thread just wreak of ignorance.
Infact taking this thread one step further, if saving money is a priority you'd be much better with a different system as the most popular brand today is generally the most expensive and has the least backwards compatability, (excluding the 4/3's system).
[/quote]
you've ruled out several brands right there by excluidng the 4/3, so we;'re down to what, 2 or 3 brands?
Originally posted by sir_bazz:
Lenses:
There is one brand that allow you to use over 200 "historical" made for film lenses, whilst at the same time having a larger "made for APS-C" lens lineup than your current brand. And guess what...you don't need an adapter to use them.
|
I don't know the real advantage for the made for APS-c lenses (smaller lighter cheaper the ads say). Some folks are avoiding them as they limit compatibility. So i see no advantage to having more of those to choose from. Adapter?? If you are referring to an FD-EOS adapter they don't work well. My Pentax/Praktika to EOS does work, so i have even more lenses to choose from that are serioius bargains ($20 like) IF i want a horse and buggy camera system! But I don't - I want AF, the best AF i can get! I want fast focusing lenses with digital coatings and aspherical designs - 30 or 40 year old glass is not a first choice, and only applicable IF i am moving up from a film version to a digital version, in which cast i'd have already decided on which brand/system.
Originally posted by sir_bazz:
Flashes:
They have camera bodies which will work with older TTL flashes as well as current ones that require pre-flash. This alone gives you a choice of any hotshoe flash that was made in the past 25 years.
|
See above - I want eTTL, eTTL2/iTTL! If i wanted to do the math in my head for GN et al I'd have bought a $75 Vivi 285 and been happy for less money than my Metz cost me.
Originally posted by sir_bazz:
2nd hand equipment.
Generally speaking, it's much harder to find a 2nd hand bargain for the most popular brand. Because of it's popularity there are a much greater number of people trying to find these bargains. Conversely, there is much less competition for the 2nd hand goods of other makers and bargains are more prolific.
|
Possibly.
Search term on ebay: results
canon lens : 12,335
nikon lens : 8008
pentax lens : 2183
minolta lens : 3205
Olympus Lens : 2952
Samsung Lens : 93
Originally posted by sir_bazz:
Macro lenses:
As I alluded to in an earlier post, third party lenses, (including macros), are made for all mounts so this isn't an issue. When looking only at OEM macro lenses the choices aren't that different and are usually a 50mm, 100mm and a 200mm. Everyone has a reasonable selection to choose from and it's hard to make a bad macro lens.
|
But we aren't looking at OEM only. I can choose from any of the 3rd partiy manufacturers for a macro lens for canon or nikon. Not so for some of the other brands.
Originally posted by sir_bazz:
The problem with looking 5-6 years into the future is that circumstances are always changing. Just ask anyone who was developing their own film ten years ago. Now having said all that, each manufacturer usually offers something unique in their lineup and this differentiation is what consumers should be basing their purchasing decisions on. To buy a brand because they say they offer a "system" is naive at best. |
Not that they offer a 'system', but if you go Nikon, you can use any of the nikon mount lenses or flashes. You can't use an olympus flash or lens on your nikon, or vice versa. You have chosen a 'system' of compatible items, not just this year's hot new techno body that you just said will not be around in a few years. Look at Sigma - 2 years ago their Foveon sensor was the talk of the town. So if you'd bought into that 'system' where would you be now? What about minolta? Oh, knoica-minolta, i mean Sony. No security there - the only good bet would be what you got now is all you're gonna have.
For many general consumers, any dSLR is just fine, like for the average listner any stereo is just fine, and more people buy chevies in one year than buys porsches in 10 - if you are an enthusiast, you try and get the best you can afford in the are that interests you. Are you an avid hunter? Fisherman? You outgros the walmart brand of gear quickly and learn buy the best for the best performance and value.
|
|
|
|
03/16/2006 08:26:20 PM · #40 |
which sub 10-megapixel dSLR has the best sensor currently?
|
|
|
|
03/16/2006 10:53:04 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
I don't know the real advantage for the made for APS-c lenses (smaller lighter cheaper the ads say). Some folks are avoiding them as they limit compatibility. So i see no advantage to having more of those to choose from.
|
Personally I don't own any either but if we're talking about choices here then the big advantage is cost. Compare the Canon FF 14mm f2.8, (I hope you never need one of these), at around $1800 from B&H with say the Pentax APS-C version at around $624 from B&H. You've already saved enough take yourself and the family on a little holiday.
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Adapter?? If you are referring to an FD-EOS adapter they don't work well. My Pentax/Praktika to EOS does work, so i have even more lenses to choose from that are serioius bargains ($20 like) IF i want a horse and buggy camera system! |
Ideally no one does...that why I pointed that some other brands don't require them.
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
But I don't - I want AF, the best AF i can get! I want fast focusing lenses with digital coatings and aspherical designs - 30 or 40 year old glass is not a first choice, and only applicable IF i am moving up from a film version to a digital version, in which cast i'd have already decided on which brand/system. |
Personally I want fast and accurate focusing with a higher weighting being on accuracy. No point having a heap of fast focused but blurry shots right? Did you know that the Canon AF system is 3 times more accurate when using a 20D or higher body when used with a lens of f2.8 or faster. Conversely, when using a slower lens and/or a 300/350D then your AF is only 1/3 as accurate? See here for the details.
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
See above - I want eTTL, eTTL2/iTTL! If i wanted to do the math in my head for GN et al I'd have bought a $75 Vivi 285 and been happy for less money than my Metz cost me. |
I'm sure thats perfect for your needs. I prefer monos which although not as portable provide superior lighting power and better recycle times. Studio shooting is my priority and I want control over the lighting rather than relying on an algorithm programmed into a flash unit.
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
But we aren't looking at OEM only. I can choose from any of the 3rd partiy manufacturers for a macro lens for canon or nikon. Not so for some of the other brands.
|
That maybe so but manufacturers that aren't support by third parties are a minority so your ruling out very few brand options when picking a dslr.
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Look at Sigma - 2 years ago their Foveon sensor was the talk of the town. So if you'd bought into that 'system' where would you be now? What about minolta? Oh, knoica-minolta, i mean Sony. No security there - the only good bet would be what you got now is all you're gonna have.
|
Yep thats all true and a very interesting topic in itself. But who honestly would've thought 15 years ago that Minolta would no longer be producing camera bodies from 2006/2007 onwards. It's a funny business and if it can happen to KM then there's always a possibility, (given the right sequence of events), that it could happen to any other manufacturer.
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
For many general consumers, any dSLR is just fine, like for the average listner any stereo is just fine, and more people buy chevies in one year than buys porsches in 10 - if you are an enthusiast, you try and get the best you can afford in the are that interests you. Are you an avid hunter? Fisherman? You outgros the walmart brand of gear quickly and learn buy the best for the best performance and value. |
I hear you loud and clear dude. But your definition of a "system" is still confusing me. For instance, if a system is a collection of lenses/accessories that can be used with a certain manufacturers camera bodies then how can Nikon not be considered a system, (as you alluded too earlier) ?
Furthermore, I can't help but think that all you've demonstrated in this thread is how pro-Canon you are and that you passionately believe all the marketing gobble-de-gook that you've read on the internet.
I have no problem if thats the case but it's not right that you hide it under the guise of a forum thread pretending to have the answer as to which dslr is the right choice for people.
cheers,
bazz. |
|
|
|
03/17/2006 12:18:46 AM · #42 |
I bought canon, yes. I looked very carefully at Fuji S2 and Nikon D70. At the time there was not other option, well, there was the Sigma.
Canon and Nikon have 90% of the dSLR market. That gives them more marketing power than the other brands, but to day I am falling for the hype? What hype?
I don't recall saying Nikon wasn't a system. Each manufacturer has their own "system" - a coordinated product line designed to work together. Fortunately not as proprietary as Apple's computer system, but then not as open as MS's.
Yes, I know the 20/30D are better focusing than the 300/350 with a 2.8+ lens. So what? You're selling canon now? LOL
Many people will suggest when deciding say between a D50 or D70 for budgetary reasons, get the D50 and better glass. Good advice. all I'm saying is also consder how much glass, the availablitiy of the glass you need now -and tomorrow.
As for comparing a given lens at a given price, that is a game no one will win as the options are myriad, and for every 14mm you show me i can show you a 70-200 or something. For a fast good moderately wide angle you can choose sigma 18-50 2.8 ($500), tamron 17-35 2.8-4 (500) canon 17-40 F4 ($650) or canon 16-35 2.8 ($1200). My point is, there are options and choices, different price points. Want a cheaper version? the kit lens (18-55), a sigma 18-50 3.5-5.6, sigma 17-70 2.8-4.5. Some of these 3rd party lenses are available for pentax/minolta/olympus, but not. All are available for Nikon/Canon. I bet you can find more of them used for N/C too, and with a larger selection find a bargain.
It's not about price anyway- it's about growth and choices.
|
|
|
|
03/17/2006 12:51:28 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
I don't recall saying Nikon wasn't a system. Each manufacturer has their own "system" - a coordinated product line designed to work together. Fortunately not as proprietary as Apple's computer system, but then not as open as MS's. |
Looks like I misread the line below then....apologies.
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Not that they offer a 'system', but if you go Nikon, you can use any of the nikon mount lenses or flashes. |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Yes, I know the 20/30D are better focusing than the 300/350 with a 2.8+ lens. So what? You're selling canon now? LOL
|
I'm not selling or pushing anything. I really like the 20/30D bodies. However I'm not the one who made a point of AF speed while neglecting to mention the trade off in AF accuracy.
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Many people will suggest when deciding say between a D50 or D70 for budgetary reasons, get the D50 and better glass. Good advice. all I'm saying is also consder how much glass, the availablitiy of the glass you need now -and tomorrow.
|
And all I'm saying is that when including backwards compatability there's actually less choice with the brand that your favoring than with some of the others.
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
As for comparing a given lens at a given price, that is a game no one will win as the options are myriad, and for every 14mm you show me i can show you a 70-200 or something. For a fast good moderately wide angle you can choose sigma 18-50 2.8 ($500), tamron 17-35 2.8-4 (500) canon 17-40 F4 ($650) or canon 16-35 2.8 ($1200). My point is, there are options and choices, different price points. Want a cheaper version? the kit lens (18-55), a sigma 18-50 3.5-5.6, sigma 17-70 2.8-4.5. Some of these 3rd party lenses are available for pentax/minolta/olympus, but not. All are available for Nikon/Canon. I bet you can find more of them used for N/C too, and with a larger selection find a bargain.
|
Yes I agree about comparing lenses as there's always examples that favor one or another manufacturer but I will point out that all those 3rd party lenses you mentioned are also available in Pentax and KM mounts. (Didn't check for Oly's).
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
It's not about price anyway- it's about growth and choices. |
Sure it is but you haven't proved,(to me at least), that Canon have any better choices or growth prospects than say Nikon, Pentax or the KM mount.
cheers,
bazz. |
|
|
|
03/17/2006 02:01:10 AM · #44 |
AF speed is part of the lens motor/etc as much as the body. Try a canon USM vs a cheap sigma and you can probably measure the time difference on a stop watch LOL
Nikon and Canon have very similar growth potential i'd bet. Lots of bodies, lots of lenses, flashes and accessories (new and used, older and just released). Lots of 3rd party and used items to choose from.
KM just went under, i mean sold out to Sony. yes, they claim to be keeping things the same. All mergers say that, only some do.
Pentax now has Samsung cameras in their corner mount wise, so that may be a viable option over time. Only time will tell.
Oly has several cameras out now but the lens selection (esp 3rd party) are a bit limited. Not sure why - oly can be reverse engineered, they enforse their patents more harshly, too small a market? Who knows.
I "bought into" canon for better or worse. I've made my bed and shall lie it. The 30D is my next camera, not all I was hoping it would be, but I'm not selling all i got to get a D200 and all my same lenses in another mount.
If I was starting out today the decision would be much more difficult as there are more choices. I wanted Minolta back in my youth, so that would have been very tempting. My relative ignorance on the 'benefits' of getting into a bigger 'system' may have led me to an ill informed decision, based on my needs and wants today. I tend to route for the underdog, but as my years pile on I have less time to and energy to fight the tide and am pretty much surrendering to the masses. What's the most popluar car? I'll take it. What's the most popular cell phone? I'll take it.
|
|
|
|
03/17/2006 02:16:35 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
KM just went under, i mean sold out to Sony. yes, they claim to be keeping things the same. All mergers say that, only some do. |
Off track a little (commercial break, LOL) but...
Sony is a brand not to be taken lightly. If history has it, KM may rise to take a bite out of the dSLR market share in the future. Sony's track record in the past on mergers or acquisitions has showed that Sony can really bring a dead horse to life.
For some acquisition track record examples, and Sony achiements, look at the following successful products:
the PlayStation (it used to be a nintendo-sony project)
or the SonyEricsson (used to be Ericsson)
or Sony Music & Sony pictures (remember CBS, Columbia studios?)
sony handycams, VAIO notebooks, etc
and if memory serves me correctly, Sony has only been in the digital camera arena for a few years - very young if compared to old brands that has been making camera for decades. Their success is really admirable.
|
|
|
|
03/17/2006 06:12:16 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
If I was starting out today the decision would be much more difficult as there are more choices. I wanted Minolta back in my youth, so that would have been very tempting. My relative ignorance on the 'benefits' of getting into a bigger 'system' may have led me to an ill informed decision, based on my needs and wants today. I tend to route for the underdog, but as my years pile on I have less time to and energy to fight the tide and am pretty much surrendering to the masses. What's the most popluar car? I'll take it. What's the most popular cell phone? I'll take it. |
If I get to the point in a few years that I need to upgrade I will. For now and for the next few my Evolt will suit me perfectly. I don't get frustrated with it, there's a difference between getting frustrated and wanting something. I'd just like something, don't need it, can live without it. And honestly when I take pictures anymore I ask myself "what am I taking this picture for" instead of just snapping away at everything I see. I would have liked the D70 but camera body alone was out of my price range. A friend gave me a gift card so I could only shop at one place. Looked at the Canon Rebel but I liked some of the things on the EVOLT better. In the end I had to go with what I could afford. Could I have saved? Yes, but I would have been saving for months. For the price I got a camera and two lenses that work for me.
as far as you last sentence lol- buying whatever car is popular or whatever cell phone is popular lol. Don't know anything about cell phones, but cars- might want to check those crash test ratings first. Most popular is not always the safest lol.
Anyhow, cheers. |
|
|
|
03/17/2006 08:34:44 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
KM just went under, i mean sold out to Sony. yes, they claim to be keeping things the same. All mergers say that, only some do.
|
I highly doubt that Sony bought KM just to shut them down, if anything, they will come back stronger than ever, even if it's in the form of a Sony branded DSLR. If they had actually gone bankrupt and their assets sold to pay off creditors, then you might be correct.
|
|
|
|
03/17/2006 08:43:32 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
KM just went under, i mean sold out to Sony. yes, they claim to be keeping things the same. All mergers say that, only some do.
|
I highly doubt that Sony bought KM just to shut them down, if anything, they will come back stronger than ever, even if it's in the form of a Sony branded DSLR. If they had actually gone bankrupt and their assets sold to pay off creditors, then you might be correct. |
You'd have to assume Sony did this to get a firm entry into the dSLR market. They already are making the sensors for a LOT of the players, so...
R.
|
|
|
|
03/17/2006 08:44:53 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Fortunately not as proprietary as Apple's computer system, but then not as open as MS's.
|
I have to disagree, MS is about the most closed system ever. If you want open, you need to go linux/unix. Have you ever seen the source code available for Windows, Office, IE or any MS product? Of course not,unless you work for MS and are working on it. If you don't work there, you probably never will see that source code. The source code for linux is freely available for one and all to modify and use for their own needs as they see fit, as is the source code for many linux/unix applications.
Now, Apple isn't giving away the source for OS X either, but to refer to them as closed and MS as open is ridiculous.
|
|
|
|
03/17/2006 10:10:00 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by missinseattle:
as far as you last sentence lol- buying whatever car is popular or whatever cell phone is popular lol. Don't know anything about cell phones, but cars- might want to check those crash test ratings first. Most popular is not always the safest lol.
Anyhow, cheers. |
I owned a Pinto for a while, so safety smafety. I have a lifted Jeep Wrangler - probably would roll over much more easily than a suzuki sidekick ;)
It was once said the best camera is the one you have now - cause you can't take photos with one you don't have.
|
|
|
|
Current Server Time: 09/23/2025 07:00:57 PM  |
Home -
Challenges -
Community -
League -
Photos -
Cameras -
Lenses -
Learn -
Help -
Terms of Use -
Privacy -
Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 09/23/2025 07:00:57 PM EDT.
|
