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Showing posts 126 - 142 of 142, (reverse)
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 03/26/2006 04:10:03 AM · #126
I can't see why we can't have competition and education.

I'm still relatively new here but my primary reason for joining this site was the competition. This is what DPC provides to me.

Education has also occured in parallel but has been more subtle. It has happened by wanting to improve, (in the challenges), and by studying the work of others in regards to things like framing/cropping, lighting, use of props, color, perspective, etc, in fact I'd even add my creativity has improved as its nurturing to view the variety of submissions we get at this site.

The FAQ's, comments on individual photos, and knowledgable forum members are icing on the cake but for me the highest learning has come from being able to view the work of a large and diverse group of people. If side comps and "masters" studies provides even more of this, then it can't be a bad thing.

Just my 2c.

cheers,
bazz.
 03/26/2006 09:07:12 AM · #127
Random thoughts:

If an invitational Challenge means that the Best Statistical Photographers (BSP) here at DPC will enter and maybe post on the forums, maybe comment on a few images, or enter other Challenges, then I don't see how that could be a problem.

If education is the goal, then I'm the audience.
I need to be edumacated, there is no doubt about that.
But as a total beginner, I like to analyze the type of picture that I
want to shoot...and either try to emulate it in the field, or notice the nuances that make it a great picture (and then try to incorporate those nuances in my images).
Having a Challenge where only the BSP are shooting the same topic is exactly what I'm looking for. One-stop shopping for great images...that I can learn from.

Also, I would much rather have the BSPs here competing, than to have them bored of DPC and move on elsewhere. The more talent here, the stronger DPC becomes...

When I was younger, I lived and breathed basketball...from age 3 to 20. I had natural ability, athleticism, and a strong work ethic. But I really didn't get 'good' until I played against people better than me. It was a never-ending cycle of Observation followed by Action against
players better than me that really elevated my game. To me, it's the same here at DPC ('cept I don't have to drive into the, er, "heart" of Trenton or Philly to find the talent) :-)

There are MANY, MANY talented photogs here.
But we always should welcome more...

These Invitational Challenges may be the spark that brings out the BSP
from under the rocks they maybe hiding (*ahem* Pedro, et al). And the BSP might even want to enter in other non-invitational challenges again...which means I will learn more and become a better photographer, all while having a good bit of fun, as well - which is what this is all really about anyway. Fun. Remember that.
 03/26/2006 09:27:37 AM · #128
I can't believe there is so much negativity going on about what I consider to be just another photo competition on this site. If you look at the history of the challenges the same argument could be made against almost every challenge. For instance "City Living". Those who don't live in the city or have access to the city could argue they were being excluded. etc. etc. There are so many challenges offered on this challenge that unless you are anal about entering every single challenge, sit back and enjoy the talents and efforts of others and enter a different challenge. I learn just as much from looking at others pictures as I do entering my own. Call the challenge anything you want. Those who wish to participate by entering or just viewing have their choice. Those who don't "qualify" or wish to view have their choice too. The bottom line is HAVE FUN.
 03/26/2006 09:39:06 AM · #129
Originally posted by lnede:
I can't believe there is so much negativity going on about what I consider to be just another photo competition on this site. If you look at the history of the challenges the same argument could be made against almost every challenge. For instance "City Living". Those who don't live in the city or have access to the city could argue they were being excluded. etc. etc. There are so many challenges offered on this challenge that unless you are anal about entering every single challenge, sit back and enjoy the talents and efforts of others and enter a different challenge. I learn just as much from looking at others pictures as I do entering my own. Call the challenge anything you want. Those who wish to participate by entering or just viewing have their choice. Those who don't "qualify" or wish to view have their choice too. The bottom line is HAVE FUN.


Indeed, Inede! Now lets all go take pictures!
 03/26/2006 09:47:42 AM · #130
Originally posted by sir_bazz:

...Education has also occured in parallel but has been more subtle. It has happened by wanting to improve, (in the challenges), and by studying the work of others in regards to things like framing/cropping, lighting, use of props, color, perspective, etc, in fact I'd even add my creativity has improved as its nurturing to view the variety of submissions we get at this site.

The FAQ's, comments on individual photos, and knowledgable forum members are icing on the cake but for me the highest learning has come from being able to view the work of a large and diverse group of people. If side comps and "masters" studies provides even more of this, then it can't be a bad thing....


BRAVO! Well said!
 03/26/2006 11:22:35 AM · #131
@ Coolhar - Harvey, I too have learned everything I know about photography from this site (bless them for it). Every educational institution I've ever attended from kindergarten through post secondary has invariably tested what it taught - consider these extra challenges just another pop quiz. those who have learned the best will score the highest on these tests.

You know I have respect for you as a photographer and an often contrary voice on this site so don't take offense to this: PLEASE quit referring to the origins of the site as being strictly educational in nature. Anyone who has been here long enough to know better knows that there were ALWAYS two goals: Education and "friendly competition".

Regards,

Pedro
 03/26/2006 11:42:25 AM · #132
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by coolhar:
Not all of them are based on challenge entries.


Unless I've missed something, they currently all are.

Perhaps it was me who missed something. I did not mean to include only those that are currently in the threads. I cede the point to you. I haven't paid them as much attention as you have. But I can't go along with their being "essential". We got along fine for a few years without them. I reserve judgement on whether they are positive or negative; but, at the same time, resist thinking that we can increase emphasis on competition without decreasing emphasis on education.


I didn't say "participation and activity in these competitions" is essential; I said "participation and activity" in general. And I stand by that; the more participation we have in the site, in general; the more activity we have in the site, in general; these are positives in every way.

Robt.

Message edited by author 2006-03-26 11:44:38.
 03/26/2006 12:05:40 PM · #133
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Just to throw my two cents in about the bracket leagues. Only the one I started I believe is exclusive (although I guess some of the others have their own rules to exclude ringers). However, as there were no other leagues when I originally posted, I had zero idea if there would be an interest or not. I wanted to have a relatively even playing field and thus decided to have some requirements for entry. The second season of the League of Death will be open entry with seeding, so the only exclusive bracket will no longer be exclusive.

So perhaps I bear some of the blame for fanning the flames of this current argument, but that wasn't my intention. Even if it was, clicking "ignore" on the thread seems like an easy way to remove the league from anybody's eyes and letting them have their own fun.


And oh my goodness - look at what you started! It's all your fault, you know... Now I have to keep track of leagues, head-to-heads, and the MS Challenge. Which means I have to enter every week! All your fault... :-) (Thanks.)
 03/26/2006 12:55:35 PM · #134
I'm having a hard time understanding how education here is on the decline or how having a 'Masters' challenge has anything to do with it.
When I first signed on (just ender a year ago) I was amazed at how much information there was about everything, and I mean everything there was to do with digital photography. I didn't ask or want to be spoon fed the information, instead I spent alot of time reading threads, searching photog profiles and tutorials and applying what I learned. Every now and then I'd write directly to someone who's skill I admired and asked a few questions. Not once has anyone hesitated to respond or gladly provide any info I asked for.
The challenges themselves are educational in that they allow us to shoot for topics that we'd ordinarilly never consider or even try. Yes we're scored and yes there are winners etc. and yes based on challenge results, members are 'classified'. It's that very classification that allows us to recognize our strengths and weeknesses and challenge OURSELVES to work on what needs to be done to improve overall.
How much more could we possibly need in the form of education?
One of the biggest thrills I got here was when I first viewed the entries from prior masters challenges. I could not believe the level of talent, and I remember thinking how very cool it would be to be able to get to a point where I may one day have the chance to reward MY efforts by being included in such a fine group. I guarantee every one of these people spent countless hours honing their skills and and setting personal goals. If it were up to me, I never would have dropped the title 'masters'. Sure it may sound a bit elitest, but at the end of the day, every person who qualifies has earned it and I admire them for it.
There are hobbyists and pros alike here and everyone in between. This is a site for learning AND applying and a place for social interaction and building of relationships but it's also a place like it or not where the cream rises to the top. For their efforts they SHOULD be recognized AND thanked for providing inspiration and a higher level for the rest of us to aspire to.
I've seen a ton of photog profiles where members openly list their goals for the next year. Not once have I seen anyone list... 'Must lobby to eliminate elitest challenges from DPC'.
R.
 03/26/2006 01:42:45 PM · #135
Originally posted by Pedro:
@ Coolhar - Harvey, I too have learned everything I know about photography from this site (bless them for it). Every educational institution I've ever attended from kindergarten through post secondary has invariably tested what it taught - consider these extra challenges just another pop quiz. those who have learned the best will score the highest on these tests.

You know I have respect for you as a photographer and an often contrary voice on this site so don't take offense to this: PLEASE quit referring to the origins of the site as being strictly educational in nature. Anyone who has been here long enough to know better knows that there were ALWAYS two goals: Education and "friendly competition".

Regards,

Pedro
I don't think I ever said that the original goal was to be "strictly" educational. If I did, I take it back. I thought I said that education was the primary goal; at least that's what I meant to say. The friendly competition helps us to maintain our interest in pursueing the educational part, and gives us a way to measure our progress. The competition is an essential part of the dpc model. That's as it should be. And I think it should stay that way.

There are plenty of other sites that are as good, or better, outlets for your competitive needs. Personally, I think it would be more of an accomplishment to be successful in other venues as well as dpc compared to just repeating success here. I don't restrict myself to dpc nearly as closely as I did in the past. It helps one to avoid becoming locked into the dpc formula. It's foolish to think that we are going to be able to keep everyone interested here when their levels of skill and sophistication in photography are constantly advancing. But I still care about this place; and want it to be able to give to others what it has given to me.
03/26/2006 02:28:50 PM · #136
Originally posted by coolhar:
It's foolish to think that we are going to be able to keep everyone interested here when their levels of skill and sophistication in photography are constantly advancing.


but is it wrong to try?

Originally posted by coolhar:
But I still care about this place; and want it to be able to give to others what it has given to me.


agreed. I just don't understand how adding new/progressive forms of friendly competition will prevent that.

P

Message edited by author 2006-03-26 14:29:12.
 07/06/2006 12:20:15 AM · #137
I'm going to stir the pot and ask: Whatever happened to this idea? I'm ready to see what the top photographers on this site can teach us.

How many other non-ribbon winning members will speak up and support this challenge for the ribbon winners?
 07/06/2006 12:24:01 AM · #138
Originally posted by BakerBug:

How many other non-ribbon winning members will speak up and support this challenge for the ribbon winners?


This is interesting :)

07/06/2006 01:15:48 AM · #139
Originally posted by BakerBug:
How many other non-ribbon winning members will speak up and support this challenge for the ribbon winners?


I think it would be a great idea! I have little doubt there would be enough eligable to make up the numbers so to speak.

I would suggest that the orig image also be posted as a link in the description with some details about the steps taken in post (not mandatory) because it would add to the learning for me and I doubt most "masters" would mind.
 07/06/2006 01:23:59 AM · #140
count my vote to the affirmative. I think it would be a great display....
 07/06/2006 06:37:32 AM · #141
Originally posted by larryslights:

I see some people don't want an invitational for previuos ribbon winners, because that would just guarantee another ribbon for 3 more photographers.

I have no problem with a "championship" (if you will), but I have an idea...why not run a simultaneous "never won a ribbon" challenge. That would at the same time guarantee three photgraphers their first ribbons.


My thoughts exactly. I also suggest that these are run as well as the standard weekly challenges to encourage more participation - gotta be a good thing surely...
 07/06/2006 06:57:05 AM · #142
I think it's a great idea, and a good chance to learn from some great photographers.
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