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01/22/2006 12:14:50 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by Konador:
Originally posted by Rose8699:
This thread is in reference to the comment on how it is "against the spirit of the challenge" to use the advanced editing rules to achieve the effect when it IS allowed, as per Bear Music's OWN words on the DQ thread, where he actually states how RIDICULOUS it would be not to use it if needed for certain cameras. |
Just because it is allowed, doesn't mean people have to agree with it's usage. This is the basic fact that you don't seem to understand. It would be silly not to allow it because, some camera's can't get shallow DoF. It doesn't matter whether bear said that or not. Even so, if it's done well so that people don't know it's been done, it won't get marked down. If people can tell, it will. Simple as that. |
FINALLY we agree. I think my mistake was on referring constantly to the "being marked down" part. I haven't really had my score move in days, so I can't say it is being marked down. I just dont think it is proper to say it is against the spirit of a challenge when it IS allowed in editing. That is the WHOLE premise of this thread. It is NOT against the spirit of a challenge to use the advanced editing rules to achieve ANY effect if it is allowed, otherwise an entry turned b/w or sepia to look vintage in a vintage theme should also be unspirited.
Rose |
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01/22/2006 12:17:17 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Rose8699:
I'm sorry Bear, but I feel that is exactly what is done to me. |
Got it. "They" do it to you so YOU do it to ME? Whatever...
R. |
Thanks Robt. Once again you read only the points that mattered to you. Thanks for at least getting through sentence one! Congrats! |
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01/22/2006 12:17:18 PM · #78 |
OK seriously, last post...
Levels is allowed in a challenge...both basic and advanced...
Now lets say you take your photo, adjust levels by taking the black slider, and slide it all the way to the white -- now you have an all white image...
yes, that's allowed, you can enter it, do you think it will get a good score just because you followed the rules?
OK...Off to get ready for the game!
EDITED TO ADD: That being said, no hard feelings to you Rose...everyone has different opinions.
Message edited by author 2006-01-22 12:18:21.
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01/22/2006 12:22:20 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by Rose8699:
I didn't think of it. Does it matter? |
I was merely offering a suggestion.
Originally posted by Rose8699:
By the way, NO, it wasn't because I was calling out people as to why council made that comment about quoting direct comments. It was on another thread I read and one I wasn't even apart of, and goes to show how easily perception is misperception on the part of certain individuals when it comes to me. Your comment "assuming" it had to do with "me" is now another misperception that will be made.
Maybe you should lock this thread if it is agitating to you, or you could PM me as well, then to make false statements in regards to your replies towards me. I agree with Bear. This IS insane. |
I misread your statement and thought you were saying that the suggestion was made to you about posting comments. I apologize for my misinterpretation.
Originally posted by Rose8699:
I am simply stating three things
1. That DOF using PP should not be reason for voters to lowball, when advanced editing is allowed and is able to be used to ascertain that effect. If they WANT to lowball, fine, but it is my OPINION that should not happen.
2. That a challenge in which an in camera effect is wanted, then it should be made clear that PP not be allowed to ascertain that effect.
3. That influencial threads during the voting process should not be allowed.
AND I asked for comments along those lines. This was not a thread about my particular usage of DOF and how well or poorly I used it. |
You've made your statement, and the responses in this thread indicate that the overwhelming majority of the community disagree with at least your first two points. Given that this thread is in itself "influential," your third point seems a bit disingenuous.
Finally, the quality of the post-processing is inextricably tied to this issue. If it had been applied in a way that looked natural, the voter in question never would have noticed it.
~Terry |
Apology accepted.
Whether or not you agree with what I said here, is really of no circumstance. I post what I do because I have a view. I don't expect that it will always be agreed with, as we have discussed privately in the past.
Now, I am off to get a fish for my sons fish tank. I would use it for the wildlife challenge, however no fishies allowed. BUT it would be a man-made natural environment right? LOL....*oh just some light humor*
Have fun with your game dpaull, and Mega, my popcorn box is bigger!!!
Ok, well, thanks for the debate. Can't wait for rollover!! Never know WHAT new mysteries await us. :)
Rose |
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01/22/2006 12:27:47 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by Rose8699:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Rose8699:
I'm sorry Bear, but I feel that is exactly what is done to me. |
Got it. "They" do it to you so YOU do it to ME? Whatever...
R. |
Thanks Robt. Once again you read only the points that mattered to you. Thanks for at least getting through sentence one! Congrats! |
We don't all share your predilection for repeat-quoting and repeat-arguing ad nauseum of the same point over and over again.
R.
Message edited by author 2006-01-22 12:41:09. |
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01/22/2006 12:44:37 PM · #81 |
Everyone, take a step back- deep breath.
If you've gotten a PM from a SC member related to this thread I STRONGLY suggest taking two deep breaths. :)
Please remember to keep things civil and on topic. :)
Gracias. :) |
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01/22/2006 12:46:36 PM · #82 |
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01/22/2006 12:48:27 PM · #83 |
I'm just going to throw this out there, but in my opinion there was nothing wrong with the comment made. I also don't find anything wrong with people making assumptions when voting - even if their assumption is wrong. They made the comment because they either liked or did not like something in the photo and rather than just give a number and moving on they tried to give more information on why they felt the way they do. Some people don't express themselves as well as they could but that doesn't make them wrong or their opinions invalid. Please, everyone, look beyond just the words in a comment and try and see the meaning.
In the example given on this thread, the way I understand it is: The DOF didn't appear entirely believable to me and I feel others did a better job of representing it in the challenge. That tells you something. It doesn't mean the rules have to change - it's a suggestion for how you may improve in the future.
If a person says "Too much USM used" and you didn't sharpen the image IT DOESN'T MATTER. The point of the comment, the part they didn't like and are trying to express is they didn't like the photo as well as they could have because in their opinion the image is too sharp IE: if you had softened the picture they would have voted it higher. There is valulable information in there.
And I am not talking about the comments like "Do you know what 1+1 equals?" in a sunset challenge. Obviously there are a few random troll commenters who leave comments with no meaning, I'm not discussing them.
Please look and think about what people are really trying to say though. They are doing you a favor and trying to help you. If you don't want comments or can't handle criticism (no matter how poorly it may be worded) then perhaps submitting the photo on a competative site which encourages people to comment isn't the best place for it. |
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01/22/2006 01:00:07 PM · #84 |
the voters are always right
"you" can rant, feel unjustly treated or even picked on & insulted
or even want the rules changed to suit your vision of the universe
but in the end, the thing that stands, is "your" photograph and how the average voter judged it
- we are not a community of photography critics but photographers ..
each with their own vision of the universe and opinions
and of course -
opinions are like rectal orifices, everyone has one ;)
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01/22/2006 01:08:13 PM · #85 |
| Can soo many people misunderstand a simple thing as to vote on a pic? If they like it, they like it! Nuf sed by me. |
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01/22/2006 01:11:39 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by ralphnev:
the voters are always right
"you" can rant, feel unjustly treated or even picked on & insulted
or even want the rules changed to suit your vision of the universe
but in the end, the thing that stands, is "your" photograph and how the average voter judged it |
The voter is only right for their opinion. My argument. Quit allowing your own predisposed attitude and likes and dislikes to get in the way of experienceing the photographers flavor, vision and message.
Why go to a buffet style restaurant and pay the premium if you only eat spaghetti? DP Challenge is a buffet. ALLOW yourself the experience of seeing and thinking different.
Originally posted by ralphnev:
- we are not a community of photography critics but photographers ..
each with their own vision of the universe and opinions
and of course -
opinions are like rectal orifices, everyone has one ;) |
I agree with this statement a lot! But, fight the urge where your opinion is the ONLY perspective you see with is all I say.
Message edited by author 2006-01-22 13:12:08. |
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01/22/2006 01:24:02 PM · #87 |
Originally posted by Rose8699:
1. That DOF using PP should not be reason for voters to lowball, when advanced editing is allowed and is able to be used to ascertain that effect. If they WANT to lowball, fine, but it is my OPINION that should not happen.
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In my opinion, as a voter, creating DOF using PP is against the spirit of the challenge, and if I, as a voter, think that the DOF effect was created in post processing, then I will vote that photo lower than one which does not make me think that the DOF was done in PP.
So you vote your way, I'll vote my way, and we'll cancel each other out. OK?
Originally posted by Rose8699:
2. That a challenge in which an in camera effect is wanted, then it should be made clear that PP not be allowed to ascertain that effect.
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Challenge discriptions have, and always will be, moderatley vague. That is an issue that has been taken up here hundreds of times, and the group consensus seems to be that we like it that way.
Now you know that a significant percentage of the voters on this site feel that when a challenge calls for "DOF" that the DOF should be done in camera. Likewise, a nearly monochromatic picture with saturation at 1000% probably wouldn't have done well in Burst of Color. However, if you have the PSP skills to make that monochromatic picture burst with color, without letting the voter know that it was done in PP, then go for it. It's all about perception.
Every challenge is a learning experience. Take a lesson out of this and apply it to your future entries.
Originally posted by Rose8699:
3. That influencial threads during the voting process should not be allowed.
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People are always going to start threads (like this one). The thing to remember, is that if a thread changes someone's mind, then it will change their mind for all the photos in a challenge. If this person gave low votes to every photo with DOF added in PP then the 'integrity of the voting' is uncompromised. They're simply voting their opinion, which they have every right to do, just as you have every right to complain about it, and someone else has every right to start a thread about it.
Originally posted by Rose8699:
AND I asked for comments along those lines. This was not a thread about my particular usage of DOF and how well or poorly I used it.
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Comments provided.
---A
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01/22/2006 01:31:51 PM · #88 |
Originally posted by hokie:
Originally posted by ralphnev:
the voters are always right
"you" can rant, feel unjustly treated or even picked on & insulted
or even want the rules changed to suit your vision of the universe
but in the end, the thing that stands, is "your" photograph and how the average voter judged it |
The voter is only right for their opinion. My argument. Quit allowing your own predisposed attitude and likes and dislikes to get in the way of experienceing the photographers flavor, vision and message.
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in the microcosm that DPC is the voters are right
any individual still has an opinion -which is worth what you paid for it
Originally posted by hokie:
Why go to a buffet style restaurant and pay the premium if you only eat spaghetti? DP Challenge is a buffet. ALLOW yourself the experience of seeing and thinking different.
Originally posted by ralphnev:
- we are not a community of photography critics but photographers ..
each with their own vision of the universe and opinions
and of course -
opinions are like rectal orifices, everyone has one ;) |
I agree with this statement a lot! But, fight the urge where your opinion is the ONLY perspective you see with is all I say. |
i think the diversity of opinions is what makes DPC great -
yes, most people are bound to the "BOX" that is their opinions
but "we aren't an Art Gallery" so there are people that are happy to stay in the box as much as there are people happy to expand thier horizons ///
(i'm agreeing with you / just expanding on my thoughts ..)
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01/22/2006 02:52:36 PM · #89 |
| threads like these are the reason I stopped giving comments on photos in challenges. |
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01/22/2006 03:35:17 PM · #90 |
Rose:
Voting down for the use of post-processing adjustments is not something that I do. That having been said, I am fine with others using different criteria to come up with their voting. I'm not always going to agree with them, and that's life.
If people want to be mean, that's a separate issue. But I would have a hard time condemning a voting system, because they are by definition subjective. Post processing turns some people on and it turns some people off - that is all there is to it.
Damon |
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01/22/2006 03:37:25 PM · #91 |
I gave up on griping about voters, trolls, etc... just take what I get. Ribbons can obviously be won, so I figure it's me doing something wrong, not the voters.
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01/22/2006 04:11:45 PM · #92 |
| Ive read this whole thread (cant believe it) and I have one thing to add. When the burst of color came out to be voted on Rose was right in there in the midst of the debate over what offset meant. In your own way you were influencing voters the same as the DOF DQ thread. After that color thread came out I felt that my score went down, I know now it was due to other elements in the picture but I felt that yours and others comments were influencing voters. Pots and kettel's I think paul said. |
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01/22/2006 04:44:51 PM · #93 |
Originally posted by Kivet:
Ive read this whole thread (cant believe it) and I have one thing to add. When the burst of color came out to be voted on Rose was right in there in the midst of the debate over what offset meant. In your own way you were influencing voters the same as the DOF DQ thread. After that color thread came out I felt that my score went down, I know now it was due to other elements in the picture but I felt that yours and others comments were influencing voters. Pots and kettel's I think paul said. |
JUST to be clear. I did not start that thread on interpretation of offset. It as Jutilda. I was on that thread, and if you read it you will clearly see that I even asked for the person who described the challenge to be more succinct for clarification to those confused. I was confused. Many were confused on offsetting yet it being centered or main. However, none of THAT even matters. I still believe such threads during voting shouldn't be allowed. Most conversation along THOSE lines should take place PRE challenge or AFTER voting is done on such issues and not during voting, and that applies to my own voice as well.
This thread is about saying a photo is "unspirited" when it was entered WITH good spirits and good intentions.
If it turned influential, then that is simply because it went off track.
Rose |
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01/22/2006 05:14:10 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by Rose8699:
....I still believe such threads during voting shouldn't be allowed. Most conversation along THOSE lines should take place PRE challenge or AFTER voting is done on such issues and not during voting, and that applies to my own voice as well.
Rose |
This would definitely solve A LOT of problems. Once a thread is started about a current challenge..BOOM Thread locked and all participants warned.
Many of these threads are allowed to exist for far too long. |
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01/22/2006 05:25:42 PM · #95 |
Originally posted by jazzmik:
threads like these are the reason I stopped giving comments on photos in challenges. |
same here. WAY too much sniping and grousing regarding comments (actually, regarding almost every aspect of this site, lately) to make it worth the trouble. *shakes head*
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01/22/2006 05:31:03 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by Rose8699:
Originally posted by Konador:
If I see a shot that's badly post processed, I will vote it down no matter what I read in the forums, because the poor job of post processing would significantly reduce the quality of the photo in my opinion. If the shot is processed well, I probably won't even notice, which is great. |
I know, and that is different. By the way, you gave me a lovely comment. But when someone comments on the entire entry going against the spirit of the challenge based on PP alone, then that is a bit ridiculous.
Rose |
I WANT to point something out here I JUST NOW noticed. I wasn't going to make this public, but since I have now realized what has happened to an original comment in my entry section, I think it SHOULD be made public.
Earlier Konador had left a fine comment on my entry for Singled Out. Konador has NOW gone back and not only changed that comment, but wrote me a book about how bad my processing was done, and the how to's on his idea of what my photo should have looked like and using which type of software to do it????
WELL NOW, isn't it NICE how a council member has the right to go and search out an entry by username and use that power to justify a comment only changed due to a thread gone bad and replace that from their original lovely comment? Simply because they NOW know which entry is mine???? BAD and UNETHICAL behavior.
Anyone that wants to click this post and report it, go ahead, as this kind of behavior NEEDS to be addressed. I have already addressed it in PM to Konador, and one other site council; BUT had NOT realized that his original comment which WAS what I considered a lovely comment had been altered until now, and obviously only done based on this thread.
Totally unethical behavior, and not one that other paying members have access too either. Otherwise all could go and see my entry and write their own books about it, vote it down, vote it up, or do their own curtailing!
I will retract this statement when Konador puts his original comment back up and takes DOWN what he has now left in my comments section as a replacment.
Rose |
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01/22/2006 05:31:51 PM · #97 |
Originally posted by Rose8699:
[
This thread is about saying a photo is "unspirited" when it was entered WITH good spirits and good intentions.
Rose |
Comments are about photos, not about the intentions or the mood of the photographer.
If a comment says that a photo is "unspirited", it is saying the photo is unspirited (or boring), not that you entered it in bad spirits or without good intentions :)
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01/22/2006 05:34:34 PM · #98 |
Originally posted by ursula:
Originally posted by Rose8699:
[
This thread is about saying a photo is "unspirited" when it was entered WITH good spirits and good intentions.
Rose |
Comments are about photos, not about the intentions or the mood of the photographer.
If a comment says that a photo is "unspirited", it is saying the photo is unspirited (or boring), not that you entered it in bad spirits or without good intentions :) |
Unspirited is not the comment that was left. I am unable to say, as it is against rules. However, the original comment is written here by council member Clubjungle if you care to read it, in which they took the liberty to post it in its entirety.
Rose |
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01/22/2006 05:38:43 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by Rose8699:
Originally posted by ursula:
Originally posted by Rose8699:
[
This thread is about saying a photo is "unspirited" when it was entered WITH good spirits and good intentions.
Rose |
Comments are about photos, not about the intentions or the mood of the photographer.
If a comment says that a photo is "unspirited", it is saying the photo is unspirited (or boring), not that you entered it in bad spirits or without good intentions :) |
Unspirited is not the comment that was left. I am unable to say, as it is against rules. However, the original comment is written here by council member Clubjungle if you care to read it, in which they took the liberty to post it in its entirety.
Rose |
So why do you say you entered it with good spirits and good intentions?
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01/22/2006 05:40:31 PM · #100 |
Originally posted by Rose8699:
Konador has NOW gone back and not only changed that comment, but wrote me a book about how bad my processing was done, and the how to's on his idea of what my photo should have looked like and using which type of software to do it????
Rose |
It looks to me that you got special treatment here. Everybody wants detailed, constructive criticism, and Konador seems to have gone out of his way to amend his comments to give it to you.
I certainly would appreciate this kind of attention, I'm just not nearly about to go to the lengths that some people do to get it. |
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