Ideal color temp in bulbs(some DIY lighting ?s)

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Nikon

12/26/2005 03:23:40 PM · #1

So I've started messing around with DIY lighting a little bit.

One thing I've been uncertain of, what is a good color temp too look for in the bulbs. I just recently purchased 4 compact flourecent halogens which are supposed to be 5000K bulbs. They look pretty white to me, but just as a general question, what is the normal color temp I should be looking for?

I'm planning on putting the bulbs in clamp lamps(also seem to be commonly called brooder lamps, in pet stores etc, presumably used for keeping eggs/chicks warm) like this:
//www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1396092&cp=&kw=clamp+lamp&parentPage=search&searchId=5478884955

Any comments on problems I might encounter there? So far the only one I can think of(I've got 1 lamp already, going to get some more today) is that there's some spot brightness, so I'm investigating diffuser materials, I think I have one that'll work great, gotta try it first though)

And for anyone looking at doing this, when I'm in a fixed location, I am planning on attaching the lamps to a rolling garment rack I have, like this(minus the clothes):
//us.st11.yimg.com/store1.yimg.com/I/valetstand_1878_30047457

Thanks!

Apple iPhone

12/26/2005 03:25:39 PM · #2

Are the light bulbs soft white? or daylight?
If they're daylight they'll work well.
my first lights were jsut as you are using and they worked well :)
and are inexpensive.

Originally posted by colema19:

Message edited by author 2005-12-26 15:27:48.

12/26/2005 03:58:51 PM · #3

Home Depot link

Is that the type of thing you are thinking of buying. I Know those arn't the same colortemp but personial I would stay them myself for a number of reasons. But to explain them all I would go on a large rant. So I will tell you what I think would be the best other option for a daylight bulb.

//www.lightbulbcity.us/catalog/product_17090_Projector_BCA.html
BCA Lights bulbs are a 250watt med base bulb so they will fit in your clip lights and they burn around 5000k to 5600k (everybulb has a little bit different temp) so with that 250watt of this bulb you wil get more light then those compact flourios

If you want to work in the tungsten range of things I suggust PH 213 they are a 250 wat bulb that burns 2900k to 3400k and pump out a lot of light compared to household 250watt bulbs I find.

Message edited by mk - super long link.

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

12/26/2005 05:05:09 PM · #4

Originally posted by radionin:

Those aren't the bulbs I have. I picked these up over the Internet from ReplacementLightBulbs.com
They are 30w compact flourecents with a model # of FE-IS-30W/50, this is the description:

Originally posted by www.replacementlightbulbs.com:

30W=120W Standard Light 120V E26 5000K 5000Â°K 1920 Lumens 10,000 Hours Longstar Day Light Full Spectrum Length 141mm/5.6" Diameter 60mm/2.35" FE-IIS-30W/50

Longstar appears to be the manufacturer(I think it's actually Xiamen Longstarlighting, these guys: //www.longstarlighting.com/)

Other then the heat and yellowish cast, I don't know what the differences are between working with tungesten vs flourcent? I'm still new to the lighting game. :)

Message edited by author 2005-12-26 17:06:34.

sir_bazz

Pentax K-5

Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4 AF

12/26/2005 05:09:38 PM · #5

Originally posted by colema19:

One thing I've been uncertain of, what is a good color temp too look for in the bulbs. I just recently purchased 4 compact flourecent halogens which are supposed to be 5000K bulbs. They look pretty white to me, but just as a general question, what is the normal color temp I should be looking for?

5500K +/- 200 is ideal.

Reality is it doesn't really matter if you shoot RAW and the color temp from your lights is consistent.

cheers,
bazz.

hankk

Canon EOS-5D

12/26/2005 05:42:40 PM · #6

IMO, the CRI is more important than the temp. (See //www.topbulb.com/find/cri.asp for a discussion of CRI).

Your camera (or photoshop) should be able to compensate for any one light source. However, the source must provide light that the RGB sensors in your camera can pick up. (if the light is too red, you won't get blue...)

If you use those lights, and no other lighting, you should be ok. If you mix them with other, different lighting, you may have issues. 5000K bulbs are pretty close to sunlight as far as temperature goes. But if they output more light or less in one frequency than the sun does, and that frequency happens to be the one one of the RGB sensors in your camera uses, you may have "interesting" results.

Apple iPhone

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Nikon

12/26/2005 06:18:58 PM · #7

Originally posted by hankk:

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

12/26/2005 07:11:08 PM · #8

Originally posted by colema19:

Originally posted by radionin:
Home Depot link

Is that the type of thing you are thinking of buying. I Know those arn't the same colortemp but personial I would stay them myself for a number of reasons. But to explain them all I would go on a large rant. So I will tell you what I think would be the best other option for a daylight bulb.

Those aren't the bulbs I have. I picked these up over the Internet from ReplacementLightBulbs.com
They are 30w compact flourecents with a model # of FE-IS-30W/50, this is the description:
Originally posted by www.replacementlightbulbs.com:

30W=120W Standard Light 120V E26 5000K 5000Â°K 1920 Lumens 10,000 Hours Longstar Day Light Full Spectrum Length 141mm/5.6" Diameter 60mm/2.35" FE-IIS-30W/50

Longstar appears to be the manufacturer(I think it's actually Xiamen Longstarlighting, these guys: //www.longstarlighting.com/)

Other then the heat and yellowish cast, I don't know what the differences are between working with tungesten vs flourcent? I'm still new to the lighting game. :)

I try to stray away from and flourcent that has a med base on it they have internal ballasts and for me I primarly work in movies and I just don't trust them they tend to flicker if your not at a safe shutter speed so thats just not cool in movies but will probaly work fine for stills. And another thing with those med base flouros your not getting the spread that you would get with a 4 foot tude system or even a 2 foot tube system, and is 30w of light (120w ecuvalent) going to give you the amount of light you need? But I guess if you put a whole wack of them on the rack it could give you the stop you need. Those BCA bulbs I should you early will fit in your clip lights and you will get MORE light and your light also starts out non-duffused so you have more Versatility allowing yourself to duffuse as needed. Or another idea that could work great is using your rack idea but rig 10 4 foot Flourcent tudes off of it it will give you a nice 400watt wall of light. would kinda work like a //www.kinoflo.com/rental_2004/001_rent/flathead80_select.html which is a very nice light

hankk

Canon EOS-5D

12/26/2005 10:03:55 PM · #9

Fluorescents will flicker at 60Hz (or 50Hz if that's the type of AC you have). If you shoot at fast speeds you may get unpredictable results depending on which part of the cycle you get.

AC occurs as a sine wave, so if you shoot at 1/240 (ie 1/4 of 1/60) you may just get the "peak" or just the "valley" of the wave, and the light will be quite different. If you shoot at 1/60 or 1/30, you'll get one or two full waves, and the light in your shots should be repeatable.

Message edited by author 2005-12-26 22:04:34.

Man_Called_Horse

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

12/26/2005 10:47:18 PM · #10

Originally posted by radionin:

BCA and PH bulbs are professional grade globes. Yes, they are good for photography, but, they are also more expensive than the normal globe. Plus, their lifespan is only a couple hundred hours.

5600= Daylight
3200= tungsten

If you shoot in RAW, you can adjust in post.

Pretty simple.

12/26/2005 11:08:03 PM · #11

Thank you for the suggestions all.
I don't normally like the added steps RAW adds for most of my shots, but I'll consider it more in the future.

hankk: good points, I hadn't thought about that. I didn't notice any oddness or inconsistancy of lighting in my shots today, at least nothing seemed unusually dark like I'd expect if I shot one very fast and was in the middle of a cycle. They all seemed pretty consistant. All I can figure is that maybe using multiple lamps(I've got 4 going) is helping some how, but I'd figure they are all in sync so that doesn't quite fit either. I'll try to remember to shoot at 1/60, 1/30, or slower then 1/30 and see if I notice a difference.

radionin: I will probably think about something like that when I want just general flood lighting. As it stands I prefer the multiple setup I have now because I get flexibility in direction of light, so I can control the shadows better.

Do those big pro flourecent jobs have flicker problems at fast shutter speeds?

12/26/2005 11:13:33 PM · #12

Originally posted by American_Horse:

Originally posted by radionin:
Home Depot link

Is that the type of thing you are thinking of buying. I Know those arn't the same colortemp but personial I would stay them myself for a number of reasons. But to explain them all I would go on a large rant. So I will tell you what I think would be the best other option for a daylight bulb.

//www.lightbulbcity.us/catalog/product_17090_Projector_BCA.html
BCA Lights bulbs are a 250watt med base bulb so they will fit in your clip lights and they burn around 5000k to 5600k (everybulb has a little bit different temp) so with that 250watt of this bulb you wil get more light then those compact flourios

If you want to work in the tungsten range of things I suggust PH 213 they are a 250 wat bulb that burns 2900k to 3400k and pump out a lot of light compared to household 250watt bulbs I find.

BCA and PH bulbs are professional grade globes. Yes, they are good for photography, but, they are also more expensive than the normal globe. Plus, their lifespan is only a couple hundred hours.

5600= Daylight
3200= tungsten

If you shoot in RAW, you can adjust in post.

Pretty simple.

Is 5 dollars really to much to spend on a light bulb that can give better results just you have to buy a new one every mounth. That doesn't seem that expensive to me if you own a camrea that is worth alot more then 5 dollars. Small price to pay its not like a par 64 bulb that will run you 20 dollars but even then that not much considering they last for a long time and the quality of light you get out of them.

Maybe its just me I work with bulbs that are worth 4 grand, 5 bucks doesn't seem like much to me.

Shooting in Raw doesn't mean that you need to be lazy with your light bulb choices it does make a difference your telling me that if your shooting both tungsten and daylight you can make just one bulbs effect daylight? (you can but it takes allllllooooooonnnnnng time).

Just one mans opion on things

12/26/2005 11:16:44 PM · #13

Originally posted by colema19:

In general No they do not they have flicer free balasts but they are very expensive I can only afford to rent them myself, They do have flicker problems which damaged bulbs or old bulbs but that is normal in that type of thing.

12/26/2005 11:55:34 PM · #14

Originally posted by radionin:

The problem with that is that you can get into an attitude where you quickly nickel and dime yourself to death. Sure, 5$ here isn't that much, but then you start 5$ here, 5$ there and pretty soon your regular outlay is just crazy.

Anyway this is just an experiment for me, I may try those fancier bulbs soon...the other reason I didn't want tungstens was they put off a lot of heat, which is a bit of a nuscence.

Man_Called_Horse

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

12/27/2005 11:36:57 AM · #15

Originally posted by radionin:

Like I said, the small amount of life you get from these globes may not be feasable, or available to the avarage photographer.

There are plenty of poor mans globes available at the local Home Depot that will do just fine.

Especially in the flouresent, and the tungsten types.

Color temp is constant, globes are not. As a matter of fact, those highly expensive HMI globes you must be refering to are not a constant source of perfect color temp. The power source must be at the correct voltage or you get color shifting. The age affects the globe, hot strikes affect the globe, blah, blah.

So, $5 may be alot for a globe that has a life span of 150 hours. After all, these globes were produced, and work best with film. Digital is a whole differant animal.

The use of light, and not its output is what matters.

Message edited by author 2005-12-27 12:28:32.

Man_Called_Horse

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

12/27/2005 11:47:50 AM · #16

Originally posted by colema19:

...the other reason I didn't want tungstens was they put off a lot of heat, which is a bit of a nuscence.

Your going to get heat with any light you use.

The on off switch is a good way to not heat up your studio until you are ready to shoot.

Another way to get the color temp you are after is to get color correction jell. Color Temperature Blue (CTB), and Color Temperature Orange (CTO). They come in differant grades from eighth, quarter, half, three quarter, and full. A role of this jell is expensive. So before going out and purchasing, call your local film rental house,tell them that you are a student, and ask them for some scraps of jell.

Nusbaum

Fujifilm X-T1

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

12/27/2005 12:22:46 PM · #17

Originally posted by hankk:

This applies to fixtures/bulbs with magnetic ballasts. Newer electronic ballasts should 'flicker' at a much higher frequency.

Nusbaum

Fujifilm X-T1

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

12/27/2005 01:02:53 PM · #18

I have been doing some experimenting with flourescent light sources and may able to offer a little advice.

First, you will want to watch the CRI rating of your bulbs. I would recommend 91 or higher. High CRI compact fluorescents are hard to find at the local home depot but they will usually have high CRI 48" tubes.

I have been able to find high CRI compacts online, but the light output is still a little low for still photography. The largest I have found is 65watt, which should be close to the output of 300watt incandescent, but I have had a hard time finding a fixture big enough.

The aluminum fixtures you find at home depot tend to leave odd rings because the reflectors have ridges. Painting the inside flat white can help with that problem. Oddly enough, flat white reflects a larger percentage of light than gloss or semi-gloss:
Mylar 90-95
Flat white paint 85-93
Semi-gloss white 75-80
Flat yellow 70-80
Aluminum foil 70-75

There are a couple of options for color temperature, and the choice will depend on the temperature of any ambient light you need to match, but it is much easier to find high CRI daylight (5000K-5500K) balanced bulbs.

You didn't say what started this experiment for you or what your goals are. In case you are interested, the following portrait was done using one home made fixture with 6 48" fluorescent bulbs.

Message edited by author 2005-12-27 13:08:07.

12/28/2005 08:51:35 AM · #19

Originally posted by American_Horse:

Originally posted by colema19:
...the other reason I didn't want tungstens was they put off a lot of heat, which is a bit of a nuscence.

Your going to get heat with any light you use.

Uh...yeah, thanks I know all light puts off heat. But tungsten and flourcents aren't even in the same league. I can touch a flourecent that's been on for an hour.

Originally posted by Nusbaum:

You didn't say what started this experiment for you or what your goals are. In case you are interested, the following portrait was done using one home made fixture with 6 48" fluorescent bulbs.

Mylar 90-95
Flat white paint 85-93
Semi-gloss white 75-80
Flat yellow 70-80
Aluminum foil 70-75

The lighting is the experiment. The closest goal I have is just to start getting some first hand working with lighting and getting an idea of how frequent I might find use for it. It's a bit early for me to start dropping big wads of cash on equipment there. Beyond that I'm not doing anything in particular. For instance I've already figured out(and I'm sure it's a duh) I'll need to get some diffusers or something along those lines for dealing with shiny surfaces.

I've always wondered about that reflectivity scale. I knew aluminized mylar had high reflectivity in the 90+ range(I've been working on some solar oven projects), but I think it's funny the difference, since mylar is just sputtered aluminum on a plastic sheet. The whire part is interesting though, so it's actually better to have a white interior then a metallicized one if it's not a highly reflective state metal. hmmm must be more absorbtion...I wonder if those reflectivity ratings are just visible spectrum or full spectrum though. Aluminized mylar in particular has advantages in certain applications because it has high IR reflectivity as well, where as I can see foil absorbing more in that range.

Nusbaum

Fujifilm X-T1

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

12/28/2005 12:15:28 PM · #20

Originally posted by colema19:

I've always wondered about that reflectivity scale. I knew aluminized mylar had high reflectivity in the 90+ range(I've been working on some solar oven projects), but I think it's funny the difference, since mylar is just sputtered aluminum on a plastic sheet. The whire part is interesting though, so it's actually better to have a white interior then a metallicized one if it's not a highly reflective state metal. hmmm must be more absorbtion...I wonder if those reflectivity ratings are just visible spectrum or full spectrum though. Aluminized mylar in particular has advantages in certain applications because it has high IR reflectivity as well, where as I can see foil absorbing more in that range.

The percentages were pulled from a hydroponics site and passed on, so I don't know of the original source. It was also pointed out that polished surfaces are great if you have a perfectly shaped reflector but if you don't there will be hotspots. I also looked at some nice photographic modifiers, such as the popular 'beauty dish' and found that many used flat white reflectors. In my case I picked up one full stop by repainting my fluourescent fixtures flat white rather than the original gloss white.