p&s ' suck after using a sLSR - DPChallenge Forums

Olympus 12-45mm f/4.0 Pro

12/20/2005 01:38:31 PM · #26

Originally posted by louddog:

If you don't think you have sensor dust, set your camera to the highest aperture number your lens allows and take a photo of a blue sky. Chances are you have it.

So in sports photography you can make an argument that the shutter lag of a P&S can cause you to miss a shot. I'd argue that if you know how to push the button half way and pre-focus, you can wait for your shot to happen and catch just about anything you want. I've shot sports with both the 300D and a P&S and shutter lag is only a minor inconvience once you learn how to press the button half way, pre-focus and wait for your shot to happen.

Is that enough ammo to say P&S' suck? I don't think so. I could put out a post saying all Sigma lens sucks because Canon L is better. I could put out a post saying the 300D sucks because just about every other DSLR on the market is better... Get the point?

Well if you're prefocusing, it usually only works if the action happens in a predictable manor. Not that it isn't possible to catch great action shots, but it's easier with AI-Servo focus. The 300D doesn't have a good AI-Servo mode, you're stuck at ISO400 so you can't shoot outside of daylight, and it's slow. The 300D isn't something i'd call good for sports.

OdysseyF22

Panasonic DC-G9

12/20/2005 01:45:01 PM · #27

Originally posted by kyebosh:

Not that it isn't possible to catch great action shots, but it's easier with AI-Servo focus. The 300D doesn't have a good AI-Servo mode, you're stuck at ISO400 so you can't shoot outside of daylight, and it's slow. The 300D isn't something i'd call good for sports.

In defense of the 300D, I have to say that I manage pretty well at sports with mine. Fast glass helps, of course, 2.8 or better. But it's possible to do pretty darn good. That said, I can only imagine how much better higher-range DSLRs are at it.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

12/20/2005 01:57:33 PM · #28

Originally posted by OdysseyF22:

Originally posted by kyebosh:
Not that it isn't possible to catch great action shots, but it's easier with AI-Servo focus. The 300D doesn't have a good AI-Servo mode, you're stuck at ISO400 so you can't shoot outside of daylight, and it's slow. The 300D isn't something i'd call good for sports.

In defense of the 300D, I have to say that I manage pretty well at sports with mine. Fast glass helps, of course, 2.8 or better. But it's possible to do pretty darn good. That said, I can only imagine how much better higher-range DSLRs are at it.

Cycling, the sport i was shooting, at the time was requiring iso 1600 to get enough shutter speed to freeze action. the 300D worked OK during times i used it in good light. It was the cause of a lot of misses in focus. Then again, maybe my technique just improved *shrug*

KiwiChris

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

12/20/2005 02:35:42 PM · #29

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Once you get use to the immediacy of a dSLR, one cannot go back.

ROFL...

I did a very simily a thing last week weekend.. Someone asked me to snap a shot of their child with them on a ride at the Santa parade here.With a sony P&S.

I pushed the button and nothing happened so was just tipping the camera up to see if the lens was extended and it took a photo of my forehead!

I must have looked like a right twat. I'm standing there with a huge camera bag, and to dSLR's hanging around my neck and can't drive a P&S. :-).

Cheers, Me.

FotoMunki

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

12/20/2005 02:47:19 PM · #30

P&S versus DSLR - I think it's a matter of what you are expecting the camera to do and what you can afford. I'm not going to enter into the P&S/DSLR war, but I'll pass on an example of love at first sight/use (re the Rebel XT).

My wife has been using a Sony P&S for over a year. 75% of the pictures she takes are blurry for the following reasons: 1) subject is usually moving kids, 2) usually low-light/indoor shooting, 3) user error. What she "expects" from a camera is to just push the button and capture that specific moment in time. She has missed some great shots of our kids because her expectation of the camera is not met - i.e., just press the button.

She just about blew a gasket a few weeks ago after all the pictures she tried to capture of our daughter's Xmas recited were crap (I was working the video cam, the 20D was left at home for this occasion). It just so happens that Santa came early this year and got her Rebel XT. I ordered the body only and threw on the kit 18-55mm that came with the 20D and she is now sitting pretty. EVERY ONE of the pictures she took last week of our son's Xmas recital came out PERFECT! (barring any critiques on composition). The camera met her expectations - she just had to push the button.

Now of course, I had alternative motives for the purchase (e.g., backup camera for some planned International travel), and it doesn't hurt that I already have a number of lenses, so the added expenditure was "justifiable" - but a subsequence of this purchase was also her new found excitement and greater interest in my photography hobby. (A negative subsequence is the extra hundreds of pictures we now have, as she is taking pics of EVERYTHING - I shouldn't have given her one of my 1GB cards.) :-)

Bottom line, IF you can afford it (and you are willing to drag along a little extra bulk) - go DSLR. As for the P&S camera's, my kids are having a blast with them!

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

12/20/2005 02:55:17 PM · #31

;^) Thanks you two! I'm still smiling...

Originally posted by macpapas:

... (A negative subsequence is the extra hundreds of pictures we now have, as she is taking pics of EVERYTHING - I shouldn't have given her one of my 1GB cards.) :-) ...

Originally posted by KiwiChris:

... I must have looked like a right twat. I'm standing there with a huge camera bag, and to dSLR's hanging around my neck and can't drive a P&S. :-). ...

Prof_Fate

12/20/2005 03:47:01 PM · #32

Originally posted by kyebosh:

The 300D doesn't have a good AI-Servo mode, you're stuck at ISO400 so you can't shoot outside of daylight, and it's slow. The 300D isn't something i'd call good for sports.

Install the undutchabels hack. AIServo is any creative mode, at any ISO. Also, it gives you RAW in all the basic modes, including sports mode.

Prof_Fate

12/20/2005 03:49:26 PM · #33

Originally posted by KiwiChris:

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Once you get use to the immediacy of a dSLR, one cannot go back.

ROFL...

I did a very simily a thing last week weekend.. Someone asked me to snap a shot of their child with them on a ride at the Santa parade here.With a sony P&S.

I pushed the button and nothing happened so was just tipping the camera up to see if the lens was extended and it took a photo of my forehead!

I must have looked like a right twat. I'm standing there with a huge camera bag, and to dSLR's hanging around my neck and can't drive a P&S. :-).

Cheers, Me.

My experience exactly!

And not to stir the waters..well, ok - i have used both p&s and a (entry level/cheap) dSLR. Try both - the dSLR wins. If the p&s cams were better then that'd be what the pro sports and portrait folks would use, huh?

petrakka

12/20/2005 03:51:09 PM · #34

this feels like a gear snobbery thread to me. I'll just point out that the photographer makes the photo..good gear helps, but I've gotten some of my favorite shots with my p/s. (sport included). you just have to know how to use what you are using.

Prof_Fate

12/20/2005 03:53:15 PM · #35

And i once ran PS on a 100mhz 486 machine. Sure, it edits photos, but it's not the choice one would make if you had another option.

Chinabun

Canon PowerShot SD990 IS

12/20/2005 03:55:28 PM · #36

i switched and couldnt be happier. atleast now i dont have to take 100 photos and only come back with a few good ones. its lighter, more convenient, and atleast i know my photos will be in focus. (atleast for me!)

fotomann_forever

12/20/2005 03:57:48 PM · #37

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

And i once ran PS on a 100mhz 486 machine. Sure, it edits photos, but it's not the choice one would make if you had another option.

Yes, but haven't we all (or a lot of us)? That's a slightly different sceneario. The PS of that time ran fairly smooth on those now ancient machines. CS2 on a 486? No.

P&S cams of today are pretty advanced.

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

12/20/2005 03:59:26 PM · #38

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Originally posted by kyebosh:

The 300D doesn't have a good AI-Servo mode, you're stuck at ISO400 so you can't shoot outside of daylight, and it's slow. The 300D isn't something i'd call good for sports.

Install the undutchabels hack. AIServo is any creative mode, at any ISO. Also, it gives you RAW in all the basic modes, including sports mode.

I did have that hack, and at the time, it would let you use AI-Servo focusing, but it wouldn't let you fire the camera. Not very useful.

thatcloudthere

Canon EOS-1D

12/20/2005 04:02:04 PM · #39

Originally posted by petrakka:

I have a Suzuki Swift. 1.3L engine, 4 cylinder, 3 door.

If somebody starts a thread in an auto forum and states "I'm never going back to little 4-banger hatchbacks again...I love my new Mercedes! It has heated seats, corners beautifully and accelerates like nobody's business!" you could identify the thread as 'car snobbery'. And you might be right. And yes, the little Suzuki Swift will get one to where they are going. I know how to use it in order to get the job done...but that makes the statement which grants superiority to the Mercedes no less true.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

12/20/2005 04:03:27 PM · #40

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

And i once ran PS on a 100mhz 486 machine. Sure, it edits photos, but it's not the choice one would make if you had another option.

I've run Photoshop on a 15mHz Macintosh SE -- adjusting the tone range and cropping on a 9" B&W monitor requires a great deal of imagination, and teaches a reliance on the on-line densitometer (Info Window).

When you started the USM filter you could generally count on having enough time to make a cup of coffee ...

Message edited by author 2005-12-20 16:04:29.

LoudDog

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

12/20/2005 04:28:13 PM · #41

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

And not to stir the waters..well, ok - i have used both p&s and a (entry level/cheap) dSLR. Try both - the dSLR wins. If the p&s cams were better then that'd be what the pro sports and portrait folks would use, huh?

No one said P&S was better. I'm just saying they don't suck. Also, the pros don't use a 300D with Sigma glass either. Do those suck?

I've used a 300D and I've used a S2 and I could get very similar results.

Also, these were shot on the same day, side by side. My wife used our 20D with a 100-400 L IS lens. I used our S2:

Message edited by author 2005-12-20 16:31:03.

thatcloudthere

Canon EOS-1D

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

12/20/2005 04:32:48 PM · #42

louddog, nobody is saying that you can't get a shot with a point & shoot. In fact, it's clear you did get a shot, and a nice one!

To be fair, we're talking about fairly standard, predictable action. Take that S2 to a rodeo or hockey game and you won't fare nearly as well. Again, you'll still get good pictures, but you will likely not get 'the' picture when you need it.

The shot that scores the game winning goal will only last a split second and you can't miss it...but you very well could miss it with any camera that lags.

And I don't think point&shoots suck, either...never will I think that.

Message edited by author 2005-12-20 16:34:14.

zxaar

12/20/2005 06:04:07 PM · #43

Try sony P73 the one i have, and you will find out how good it is. In fact i bought this camera because there is no shutter lag. and new P6S are improving very much.

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

Look, let's face it...if your camera has shutter-lag you are much less likely to 'capture the moment'.

Alex Majoli is an exception...but he's inspired me enough to want to get a nice new p&s.

Are you guys arguing that you can deal with shutterlag while shooting sports, or that your cameras don't lag?

LoudDog

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

12/20/2005 08:16:48 PM · #44

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

Take that S2 to a rodeo or hockey game and you won't fare nearly as well.

Sounds like a challenge! Bet you'll be surprised how well I fare with my S2 compared to a Rebel (unless it's rodeo because I don't know jack about rodeo stuff).

crayon

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

12/20/2005 09:16:44 PM · #45

you know what would be a "killer" digital camera in my opinion?

The size of an ultra-compact digicam like the Nikon S1, or Sony T-series coupled with dSLR image quality.

But I guess this wont happen in the near future.

Message edited by author 2005-12-20 21:36:35.

fotomann_forever

12/20/2005 09:27:19 PM · #46

just to stir a lot of dSLR users up ... I have 8 MegaPixels to play with ;-) he he

lol ... my next camera... D200 or D2H

Edit: kinda like the Fujifilm FinePix S3 Pro too

But for now, my badboy of the P&S world keeps me digitally happy. 8 Megapixels :-P LMAO

Message edited by author 2005-12-20 21:41:46.

crayon

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

12/20/2005 09:29:01 PM · #47

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

lol ... my next camera... D200 or D2H

The D200 seems like a nicer camera :)

awpollard

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

12/20/2005 10:03:40 PM · #48

It's all about how much work one (read as I) wants to do while shooting the shot. With P&S (Pray and Sprays...I can say that because I had a Powershot S50 and have a Powershot Pro1) it is a lot more work to achieve the same shot.

Talkin' sports/airshows here...I would much rather come home and throw away 3 out of a hundred shots than keep 3 out of a hundred.

For me with a P&S there was way to much worry about getting the subject in the frame and not enough about the action going on... a lot of tosser shots on calculating when the object would hit a certain point. Then start rapid firing hoping to catch the action at the point. Sure with a 8MP cam we can come back and if the subject is in the bottom corner just do a big crop and make it appear that it was shot as intended.

A lot of talk about shutter lag here but none about EVF Lag. That is what I will never go back to. The lower end P&Sers just have a piece of glass to look through for a view finder (you want to change a setting you have to take it away from your eye and then scroll through some unreal menu).

Most higher end P&Sers have electronic view finders which is not TTL (Through the Lens) like their dSLR counterparts. With EVF I find that I am always a fraction of a second behind what is really happening. The Camera sees then records the picture so that it can display it on the EVF or LCD and does it over and over until I release the shutter ... EVFs are getting quicker but their still no match for a good ol Through the Lens view finder when tracking a moving object.

The so called sensor noise trade off. Two things: Keep you equipment clean (especially if shooting for a basic challenge) and no one is going to post or print a shot with sensor dust on purpose... and good grief, how hard is it to spot edit? Sensor dust or Noise at ISO200 > on a P&S is an easy choice for me.

Really, it is to each his own. For me I have found since going to a dSLR that I have to work half as hard while shooting and post processing. Call me lazy but I will take the easier route every time.

For the OP... I'm with you (could have worded the topic better). I have tried pulling out the old P&S and have had to take pics of people as you did several times. Not only was it uncomfortable handling the small cam, but was unsure of the results in the case of the couple at the zoo. I can not see me going back any time in the future.

BTW: As others have said, P&S cams don't suck, their just not my cup of tea any more.

And some were meant to shoot P&S cameras, I handed down my Powershot Pro1 to my wife and she takes pictures like the following. I watched her take it, all the time in the world...one shot, no rapid fire. Just a lot of patience... No way in heck that she could shoot a dSLR cause there are just too many things going on.

Canon Powershot Pro1 with x1.5 Canon TC

Message edited by author 2005-12-20 22:08:44.

12/20/2005 10:13:09 PM · #49

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

8mp on a 8.80 x 6.60mm sensor is pretty super dense :-P