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12/14/2005 07:51:42 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
"Use cheese as the subject of your photo to make your audience smile."
enough said! |
But it doesn't say cheese as in the dairy product.
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12/14/2005 08:08:55 AM · #27 |
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12/14/2005 08:14:27 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
I haven't looked through them yet. But one comment I got is a little disturbing. According to this commentor, the dictionary says 'say cheese' means 'take a picture of a small smile.' So since I didn't have a smile in my shot (although I do have cheese) it doesn't meet challenge requirements. |
I have cheese AND a small smile in mine..LOL, and I TOO got the same comment.
Rose |
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12/14/2005 08:25:00 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by blindjustice:
Who said it had to be literal cheese?
Just don't run threads about how people don't adhere to the topic, when its not truly defined, |
Perhaps the thread should then be about defining the topic of the challenge better then.
If this challenge was not necessary meaning to use actual cheese, it should have said so as "any interpretation of cheese could be used" in the description. Same with Candlelight. Others don't believe candles "needed" to be in the shot. Same with Holiday Catalog - as some wanted clarification on the word "catalog" and made covers rather than items or catalog contents. There is also another thread similar to this where someone mentions not reading the details of a challenge. And again, in Visual Puns, it had to be said that it was not for JUST verbal puns, but visual puns, and the list goes on.
Therefore, I think refinement of the descriptions should be in order for a threads rather than starting these types of threads after the fact and after the challenge has gone in. As far as I am concerned, in what HAS been mentioned here in this thread specifically, and now twice, can hurt the scores I may receive. In some cases, it can hurt the scores that others receive as well.
Rose |
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12/14/2005 08:30:40 AM · #30 |
You can also look at this challenge in this way: This topic, especially the photography of food, is indeed a technical feat for the average new comer. Believe me, food is very difficult to render in its fidelity. Experts carry meters to read light temperature and there is much going on, more so than in product photography. Then you have the neophytes who can help adding more confusion by playing with color controls: the outcome of this type of challenge is generally a very "Cheesey" overall output.
Now, ask yourself, are you ready to see a parade of actual cheese images with only one in 5 meeting a satisfactory rendition or is it not better to have the usual response where many go off in different directions. The object is to use cheese to invoke a smile but then consider: do you have to actually see the cheese or is not implied by the title. A slight out of the box could interpretation could be a portrait where the photographer supposedly holds the cheese. Now, the final object is to make you smile or laugh and it is here where I lay the heavier weight. I have done much food photography but this does not mean that I will judge an image here on the standard of true rendition. This is not advertising but rather a fun challenge to make me smile.
Within the definition there is enough latitude for the usual expansion which happens in all challenges. Personally, I do not care what shade the cheese if you dare to show it naked and I do not care who took the route to hide the cheese or for that matter to disguise it. Those that implied it have the burden to convince us, but try to see if there is value to their effort. Yes, in all challenges there are images way out in left field but that is a truism that persists.
Message edited by author 2005-12-14 08:53:04. |
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12/14/2005 08:31:10 AM · #31 |
I just took a quick browse through and yes a lot of people too the challenge as 'say cheese' rather than use 'cheese' as the subject to make the viewers smile. I'm trying not to be too harsh in my voting for the ones that seem to have missed the boat.
I appolgize in advance for any comment I make in this challenge. Remember it's just an opinion.
BTW, I entered the 4-5 challenge and not this one. |
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12/14/2005 08:32:28 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
"Use cheese as the subject of your photo to make your audience smile."
enough said! |
I'm with you. Enough was said right there. When I read the challenge, my first instinct was to take it just as stated. USE CHEESE AS THE SUBJECT OF YOUR PHOTO TO MAKE YOUR AUDIENCE SMILE. Mine is an absolute rendition of that description. It has nothing to do with squashing the imagination of others, it is just the actual rendition of the description that I personally used.
Now, for those that want to pick apart the word cheese, and how it may or may not be used in photography, and how it may or may not be interpreted in the dictionary, then go ahead, but to me it is very simply put. USE CHEESE, as in actual cheese. IF it was meant to mean something else, then the originator of the challenge should have been more succinct in the description as in - "USE SMILES, as it relates to the phrase in photography of SAY CHEESE, to make your audience smile". Then that would have opened up the span of imagination more. I personally took it as stated and literal.
I truly believed the challenge originator wanted to see actual cheese in the photo, and used in a way to make others smile. I haven't looked at all the entries yet, but it seems most took it just as I.
Rose
Message edited by author 2005-12-14 08:33:26. |
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12/14/2005 08:44:15 AM · #33 |
Seriouslyâ€Â¦ When I read the title of the challenge, I thought a picture of my son with a HUGE smile. When I read the description of the challenge, I realized that is not what it was about, so I did not enter. I think I’m very liberal when it comes to fitting an image into a challenge, but for many of them it seems like people may have just read the title. (Or they just did not care about the description.)
Spelling...
Message edited by author 2005-12-14 08:51:45. |
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12/14/2005 08:45:04 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by Rose8699:
Originally posted by Alienyst:
"Use cheese as the subject of your photo to make your audience smile."
enough said! |
I'm with you. Enough was said right there. When I read the challenge, my first instinct was to take it just as stated. USE CHEESE AS THE SUBJECT OF YOUR PHOTO TO MAKE YOUR AUDIENCE SMILE. Mine is an absolute rendition of that description. It has nothing to do with squashing the imagination of others, it is just the actual rendition of the description that I personally used.
Now, for those that want to pick apart the word cheese, and how it may or may not be used in photography, and how it may or may not be interpreted in the dictionary, then go ahead, but to me it is very simply put. USE CHEESE, as in actual cheese. IF it was meant to mean something else, then the originator of the challenge should have been more succinct in the description as in - "USE SMILES, as it relates to the phrase in photography of SAY CHEESE, to make your audience smile". Then that would have opened up the span of imagination more. I personally took it as stated and literal.
I truly believed the challenge originator wanted to see actual cheese in the photo, and used in a way to make others smile. I haven't looked at all the entries yet, but it seems most took it just as I.
Rose |
did you actually read all the forum posts??? perhaps this is from the suggestor.
Originally posted by srugolo:
I'm sorry, but as
"use cheese to make audience smile" I meant cheese as a photographic cliché and not mozzarella.
Is this a sin? I think there is space for both interpretations even if you're a nazy... |
Perhaps you have it backwards Rose. I think either way you shot "cheese" would be ok.
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12/14/2005 08:48:37 AM · #35 |
Some people are single minded when it comes to challenges. Cheese means other things than a hunk of cheese...
Sad enough that some people wont score a great piucture well if it doesn't have a peice of american cheese in it.. When the smile was "Saying Cheese" or the picture is plain old Cheesey. |
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12/14/2005 09:01:59 AM · #36 |
alienyst, bianca et al -
Yes, I got the exact same comment, which was partly what prompted me to start this thread.
It's not just how entrants interpret the challenge, but very much also how the voters interpret it. And with this particular voter he/she seems way off the mark of what, imho, the challenge details implied.
I'm the last one to want only literal interpretations of themes - creative input is essential. (Although it is true that if others don't see your interpretation in the same way, your image is likely to get some low scores. I fell foul of this in the Too Late challenge.)
I'd accept something obviously cheesy (rather than literally cheese) as the SUBJECT of an image in this challenge but using or expecting a 'Say Cheese/Colgate' smile indicates to me that the entrant or voter has read the title of the challenge only. |
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12/14/2005 09:12:19 AM · #37 |
I just want to add that I personaaly met the definition in the orthodox manner. My above post is merely a defense for those who use parody, irony, puns and humor.
But the definition expands within the rules. What if you use cheese as the subject and give it a metal look, something like "Metalica Swiss" The definition said use cheese but did not elaboarate on the fidelity required. Then, subject is not so straight forward. You can do an image of a subject that is not present in the image. The creative mind have found countless ways of doing it in paintings and photography. If the subject is people and you use people's shadows it flies. No, the creative mind breaks through all barriers that is why it is called creative. This does not mean that every out of the box is a creative entry, but my advise is that if you take everything literal there may be a sense of humor lacking. The image is judged by all who vote and if you look at the image with its voting pattern you will find enough voters who disagree with your viewpoint. However, those that bring an image with no relation at all to the challenge will pay their price. |
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12/14/2005 09:12:38 AM · #38 |
I really can't stand when people choose to interpret a topic so singularly. Sure, there are always some I feel that I don't think meets the challenge, but I always keep an open mind, taking a bit more time looking for something I might have missed.
Speaking of cheese, I'm surprised nobody's mentioned government cheese.
(hears silence)
What?
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12/14/2005 09:16:31 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by shabbychic:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Many people will not like my comments.
I finished voting them all and SO MANY TIMES, I kept trying to click the "BAD" link!
This went from flagrant "I didn't read the description" to "I don't give a @#$%*! about cheese, look at my perty picture"
*shakes head*
On a positive note, there were a handful of great, creative and ON-TOPIC shots in there. |
Stop trying to discourage creativity and imagination. If some one can come up with a wonderful picture that is even remotely close to the topic, I say bravo to them. You shouldn't vote someone low because it doesn't relate to the topic in the way you think it should. You're only making people despise their own imagination and turning this into monolithic website. You can see it in the reproduction of old winners from fear of venturing out what is already approved, as it most often results in the demolishing of that photo through low voting.
I think that the whole subject of photography is taking the ordinary subject as everyone else see's it and turning it into something beautiful or meaningful, so I don't think you should vote low just because it's not how you want to see it relate to the topic. Perhaps you should just forget what the challenge is, look at the photo and vote according to how you like it. If it's even remotely on the subject I'm sure that, when your really looking at it, something about it will remind you of what the subject is. That should be enough. |
How you vote is definetly up to you, but I would have to say I agree with the fact that there is a specific challenge and guidelines for the challenge. Thats half the point, taking sometimes a difficult subject and making it a good picture. If someone doesn't even do that and decides to just take a picture of something different it should end up in their portfolio not a challenge. |
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12/14/2005 09:18:59 AM · #40 |
I'm really surprised we didn't have any pictures of those Happy Cows from California...
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12/14/2005 09:23:28 AM · #41 |
I too read the challenge as it must show cheese. Cheese in my mind can be a picture or cheese, yellow, blue, plastic, wrapped or whatever as long as there is cheese in the picture. Whomever came up with the challenge idea may have wanted cheesy images or smiles but that isn't what the details stated.
There are some that say the details hinder creativity but without the details we would just have tons of free studys. I always look at it as if you were actually entering a juried contest, if the contest would be "Use cheese as the subject of your photo to make your audience smile" than I'm pretty sure it wouldn't get in the contest if there wasn't cheese in the image.
On the other hand I do believe that merits should be given for technical ability. My voting details are in my profile but in short you get a 5 instantly if you met the challenge details (in this case you would have to actually have cheese as your subject and it would have to make ME (the audience, btw) smile). The less it made me smile the less score it would get. 0 for no cheese as subject.
You would also get a point for each technical part of the image I think you did exceptional in.
Most in this challenge would get a score below 5 from me since they don't have cheese as the subject but I don't see many that would get a one or 2.
I think people take the "out of the box" idea too far and expect everyone to be able to get it then go nuts when they don't. There are ways to be different and shoot an original image and still stay within the challenge details...for some that alone is challenge enough. Just stop reading between the lines do what it says.
Message edited by author 2005-12-14 09:23:57.
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12/14/2005 09:30:53 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by sabphoto:
Just stop reading between the lines do what it says. |
Say Cheese! Details: The old photographer's cliché is now a challenge topic. Use cheese as the subject of your photo to make your audience smile.
Given the reference to the "old photographer's cliche," it seems to me that a cheesy smile is certainly a reasonable interpretation of the challenge.
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12/14/2005 09:32:28 AM · #43 |
did you actually read all the forum posts??? perhaps this is from the suggestor.
Originally posted by srugolo:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sorry, but as
"use cheese to make audience smile" I meant cheese as a photographic cliché and not mozzarella.
Is this a sin? I think there is space for both interpretations even if you're a nazy...
Perhaps you have it backwards Rose. I think either way you shot "cheese" would be ok.
_______________________________________
If this is the originator of the challenge, then why say "what he meant" now rather than say what he meant in the description? Which brings up another topic. How are we, the entrants, supposed to read the creative minds of the challenge originator? We can only take the words that are used in the description and go with them as stated. So, no, I don't think I have it backwards. I think its a bit backwards though to say what one meant a challenge to mean after the fact. And for all of those out there that did use Mozarella, to mention that now could be a bit influencial in voting IMO. I see quite a few shots with mozarella in it.
As for Graphicfunk's statement on having cheese look metalic, I agree with that. It is still cheese in the photo.
Given all of that and having now looked through and voted, I have to say this was a very difficult challenge to vote on at least for me. I chose my regular top pics, but man, it was tough going trying to figure out some interpretations. Some were literal, some were so far out there I needed binoculars to see it, some were really cheesy, and some just boring. So I had to go on "did it make me smile" rather than did it meet challenge, and that is where the voting in my case went from there. I will be leaving no comments this time though. I am too stumped for words as to photo comments this time around, but there were a few I felt were really good and took great work to accomplish. I may leave comments on those.
Rose
Message edited by author 2005-12-14 09:35:08. |
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12/14/2005 09:37:53 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by sabphoto:
I too read the challenge as it must show cheese. Cheese in my mind can be a picture or cheese, yellow, blue, plastic, wrapped or whatever as long as there is cheese in the picture. Whomever came up with the challenge idea may have wanted cheesy images or smiles but that isn't what the details stated.
There are some that say the details hinder creativity but without the details we would just have tons of free studys. I always look at it as if you were actually entering a juried contest, if the contest would be "Use cheese as the subject of your photo to make your audience smile" than I'm pretty sure it wouldn't get in the contest if there wasn't cheese in the image.
On the other hand I do believe that merits should be given for technical ability. My voting details are in my profile but in short you get a 5 instantly if you met the challenge details (in this case you would have to actually have cheese as your subject and it would have to make ME (the audience, btw) smile). The less it made me smile the less score it would get. 0 for no cheese as subject.
You would also get a point for each technical part of the image I think you did exceptional in.
Most in this challenge would get a score below 5 from me since they don't have cheese as the subject but I don't see many that would get a one or 2.
I think people take the "out of the box" idea too far and expect everyone to be able to get it then go nuts when they don't. There are ways to be different and shoot an original image and still stay within the challenge details...for some that alone is challenge enough. Just stop reading between the lines do what it says. |
TOUCHE` and BRAVO! I agree with every single word you stated!!
Rose |
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12/14/2005 09:39:13 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by di53:
Sad enough that some people wont score a great piucture well if it doesn't have a peice of american cheese in it.. |
personally, i'm giving a 1 to any shot that has some crazy furrin' (read: foreign) cheese in it. american or velveeta all the way baby!
:P
it's worth mentioning that the majority of challenge topics AND their descriptions in the database come directly from the populace at large here. neither the admins nor the sc sit around and try to come up with vague descriptions that will cause conniptions. y'all have yourselves to blame!
might i make a plug that we're always looking for good challenge topics WITH well-thought-out descriptions? if you think it's so easy to do, try suggesting a few! it's a lot tougher than you think. |
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12/14/2005 09:44:48 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by A1275:
Originally posted by sabphoto:
Just stop reading between the lines do what it says. |
Say Cheese! Details: The old photographer's cliché is now a challenge topic. Use cheese as the subject of your photo to make your audience smile.
Given the reference to the "old photographer's cliche," it seems to me that a cheesy smile is certainly a reasonable interpretation of the challenge. |
I fully agree. At least cheese as the diary and cheese as a cheesy smile must be acceptable. The problem here is that there is people that is scoring 1 and 2 to cheesy smile because there is no cheese and 1 and 2 to mozzarella because there is no smile. That's crazy since the description leave plenty of space for interpretation. |
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12/14/2005 09:51:15 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by A1275:
Originally posted by sabphoto:
Just stop reading between the lines do what it says. |
Say Cheese! Details: The old photographer's cliché is now a challenge topic. Use cheese as the subject of your photo to make your audience smile.
Given the reference to the "old photographer's cliche," it seems to me that a cheesy smile is certainly a reasonable interpretation of the challenge. |
I think its a bit of an oxymoron, if I am using that word correctly. "Old photographer's cliche" and "use cheese as the subject of your photo" have two different meanings of the same phrase in my opinion. I guess some stayed steadfast on the cliche` and some on the cheese, literally, being the subject - and that may be why this thread is even here. The rules were not really "clearly" layed out, OR was intentional in order to open it up for all types of interpretation. However, that opens up controvesy, in a sense, on how one votes, IMO. Those that see cliche` will vote down cheese, and vica versa.
What I try to do is read the challenge very clearly and take my first instinct. In Visual Puns, I had a question about it, so I opened it up for discussion. I was given my answer, knew what I then wanted to do, and did it. I saw very clearly in this challenge no need for questions. It was simply put, if one doesn't stop to say "hey, what do they mean by cheese" - "what do they mean by subject" - "what do they mean by cliche`", LOL...which in my mind is a bit amusing.
If one is torn between actual cheese and cliche`, maybe one should have asked as well. This would have then also had an open discussion where others would know if what they entered was actually going to meet challenge in some way or other, and would have tipped off the voter to know and expect what was coming. These threads after the fact can be hurtful to the entries, in my opinion. My own score dropped since this thread opened, as I figured it would once something was mentioned specifically in regards to my entry (unintentional as it was, I'm sure).
Usually there are threads open for discussion, and unless I missed it, there is one called "CHEESE", and quite a few things were mentioned on it for examples of entries and even an example photo where "cheese was to be the subject of the photo". I didn't see this debate occur there. Maybe it should have.
Rose
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12/14/2005 10:00:39 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by muckpond:
Originally posted by di53:
Sad enough that some people wont score a great piucture well if it doesn't have a peice of american cheese in it.. |
personally, i'm giving a 1 to any shot that has some crazy furrin' (read: foreign) cheese in it. american or velveeta all the way baby!
:P
it's worth mentioning that the majority of challenge topics AND their descriptions in the database come directly from the populace at large here. neither the admins nor the sc sit around and try to come up with vague descriptions that will cause conniptions. y'all have yourselves to blame!
might i make a plug that we're always looking for good challenge topics WITH well-thought-out descriptions? if you think it's so easy to do, try suggesting a few! it's a lot tougher than you think. |
Funny you should mention that. Not to toot my own horn, but at another site I entered contest suggestions. About 20 to 25 of them. About 5 have been used so far. None of them seem to have this type of controversy and in one sentence the contest description was made and interpretted just as stated - no questions asked. No dual interpretations made.
The problem, to me, in the description at hand is, well...notice that A1275 highlighted the first part of the description. I and a few others highlighted the second part. The description was actually two fold. The first part about the cliche`, I personally took as not part of the description, but just as an opening statment with an amusing "photography" add in. The second part is actually the description of the contest as I read it, where it clearly states to "use cheese as the subject of your photo". So, in this case, I truly do not believe the description was clear cut.
Having said that, I am going on the smiles. LOL....It seems everyone understands that no matter the entry, it should "make" you (the audience) smile, and not really in meaning "you should be smiling in the photo". I am scoring starting with my 5, as usual, and then it goes up or down from there if it makes me smile, and then up or down for technicals, and I am disregarding the cliche` verses cheese problem.
Rose
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12/14/2005 10:06:01 AM · #49 |
There are several ways to spend your time here at DP Challenge.
If you choose to feel frustrated by the ebb and flow of voter opinion you will be forever frustrated here. This is a pop photo contest site. Perhaps pop photography is not your bag. That's cool. Our company works with Bob Llewellyn... a well known photographer and contributor to National Geographic
Bob Llewellyn Web Site
I bet he would get pounded on occassion on some of these challenges if he forced himself to take a photo of something he didn't like :-/
I didn't enter the cheese or the 4-5 am challenge because neither one had any interest to me.
My point...DP Challenge is what it is and my personal experience is your time would be better spent doing what you like versus trying to change the site or the voting behaviour. |
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12/14/2005 10:46:17 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by hokie:
... My point...DP Challenge is what it is and my personal experience is your time would be better spent doing what you like versus trying to change the site or the voting behaviour. |
Great point! Well said. ;^)
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