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12/13/2005 04:59:49 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by pekesty:
Originally posted by Rose8699:
However, anyone can step out their door and go to the nearest park and get great shots during sunlight hours. That is the difference to me. |
Uh, sorry Ansel we'll have to take back all your accolades, apparently anyone could of done what you did.
Mr. Bearmusic and Mr. NShapiro, samething, obviously no skill required in going outside and taking a great photo. |
Oh, absolutely. Virtually no skill at all :-)
R. |
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12/13/2005 05:00:49 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by Rikki:
ok guys... i can't wait for this challenge to be over as i seem to have been downgraded because i have more than candlelight in my image. technically, it's a difficult shot but i managed to get it right. however, by the looks of my scores, under 5, people are missing something. this will definitely be something to vent upon when everything is over. |
Because you have "more" than candlelight in your image? That sounds odd. But, you are in the same boat as I am. Actually better. I'm barely pushing a 5!~ Only bordering it. LOL...
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12/13/2005 05:14:38 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by Rose8699:
Originally posted by rachelellen:
Originally posted by Rose8699:
Well, you know? It is all semantics really. This can be argued till the cows come home (utoh, another good pun to use! :)
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Just so you know, 'till the cows come home' is not a pun. Not to be picky, just thinking that there are going to be a WHOLE LOT of people making similar mistakes -- which will of course bring up a whole new thread for that challenge about what meets challenge and what doesn't. Goody. :) |
Well, that is true. Something like HOLY COW would be though. It was one of my first thoughts as well, but I went with something different. But someone could make a house with cows coming out of it and use it as a pun of "and the cows come home" or "till the cows come home". Puns are virtually everywhere if you really think about the literal sense that can come from almost any phrase. I think it is going to be one interesting challenge because of that, not to mention a lot of comments like "I don't get it". LOL...
Rose |
"Holy Cow" -- also not a pun. A pun involves a play on words. One (groaningly bad) example would be: A piece of rope tied in a knot with the ends coming loose walks into a bar, crying. Bartender asks, "Are you OK?" Rope says, "No, I'm a frayed knot".
"Holy cow" and "until the cows come home" are idioms, not puns.
Veering back to topic now... |
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12/13/2005 05:16:36 PM · #54 |
Rose, I'll try to simplify my own comments, then.
I asked you directly, because you were the one who made multiple statements that you were voting people down for not having a candle and flame in the shot. It is not irrelevant at all, since it relates directly to you. It also is not impertinent to ask someone who has appeared to make contradictory statements to explain further.
By definition, if you only reward people who have both a candle and flame you are also punishing people who don't have those elements in the frame. If that is what you want to do, then that's fine. It just struck me as a disagreeable way to vote, without proper and thoughtful consideration of composition and technical skill. When you appeared to agree with the statement "voting down is very much like punishment" after stating that you were doing exactly that, well, it just didn't seem very sportsmanlike.
In any event, it's clear you are going to vote however you please, so I'll leave you to carry on in whatever manner you choose. |
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12/13/2005 05:16:41 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by rachelellen:
Originally posted by Rose8699:
Originally posted by rachelellen:
Originally posted by Rose8699:
Well, you know? It is all semantics really. This can be argued till the cows come home (utoh, another good pun to use! :)
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Just so you know, 'till the cows come home' is not a pun. Not to be picky, just thinking that there are going to be a WHOLE LOT of people making similar mistakes -- which will of course bring up a whole new thread for that challenge about what meets challenge and what doesn't. Goody. :) |
Well, that is true. Something like HOLY COW would be though. It was one of my first thoughts as well, but I went with something different. But someone could make a house with cows coming out of it and use it as a pun of "and the cows come home" or "till the cows come home". Puns are virtually everywhere if you really think about the literal sense that can come from almost any phrase. I think it is going to be one interesting challenge because of that, not to mention a lot of comments like "I don't get it". LOL...
Rose |
"Holy Cow" -- also not a pun. A pun involves a play on words. One (groaningly bad) example would be: A piece of rope tied in a knot with the ends coming loose walks into a bar, crying. Bartender asks, "Are you OK?" Rope says, "No, I'm a frayed knot".
"Holy cow" and "until the cows come home" are idioms, not puns.
Veering back to topic now... |
Off subject for one more moment...
Your pun skills are much needed on the Virtual Pun thread then, because there are going to be a LOT of idioms entered.
Ok, back on subject now....
Rose
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12/13/2005 05:20:11 PM · #56 |
A simple Google search for Puns would reveal more puns than could be shot in a lifetime.
But, I have a feeling a photo will do well if it appeals to the broadest group of voters..with or without an accurate pun. |
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12/13/2005 05:21:03 PM · #57 |
The way I heard it was...
A string walks into a bar and asks the bartender for a beer.
The bartender says "we don't server strings here, now get out of my bar"
The string goes out side and ties himself in a knot and roughs up his hair. He then goes back into the bar and asks for a beer.
The bartender looks at him suspiciously and says "hey aren't you that string that was just in here?"
The string looks back at him and says "nope, frayed knot". |
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12/13/2005 05:25:40 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by A1275:
Rose, I'll try to simplify my own comments, then.
I asked you directly, because you were the one who made multiple statements that you were voting people down for not having a candle and flame in the shot. It is not irrelevant at all, since it relates directly to you. It also is not impertinent to ask someone who has appeared to make contradictory statements to explain further.
By definition, if you only reward people who have both a candle and flame you are also punishing people who don't have those elements in the frame. If that is what you want to do, then that's fine. It just struck me as a disagreeable way to vote, without proper and thoughtful consideration of composition and technical skill. When you appeared to agree with the statement "voting down is very much like punishment" after stating that you were doing exactly that, well, it just didn't seem very sportsmanlike.
In any event, it's clear you are going to vote however you please, so I'll leave you to carry on in whatever manner you choose. |
It is impertanent to ask ANYONE how they vote, no matter what wordage they used previously. I am not asking you or anyone else how they vote, so I don't expect it of me.
HOWEVER, let me repeat myself, as my stradegy has been posted time and time again in how I vote on other threads, and then I will be done here as this is going nowhere but into aggravating debate rather than any other type of debate.
This is how "I personally" vote:
I start with a 5. Everyone gets a 5 to begin with. THEN if I like the subject matter (first impression), concept, how I FEEL it meets challenge, it goes up or down from there. Then I take the techicals and add or take away for what I know and see within the shot that may or may not be technically good or bad. The final result is the vote I give.
If I give a 1 or 2, I comment. If I give 9's and 10's, I comment. I don't comment on anything inbetween unless something I see is phenomenal and I care to ask or state something.
Given that, I feel like candlelight should have been in the shot. I mean, the candle and its light, and not just low light from whatever source. I know how photos can be manipulated light-wise, as I have used my own PSP for over a year now. I can turn a perfectly dull day landscape into a gorgeous sunset, so in this particular challenge given advanced editing was allowed, to actually SEE the candlelight and the candle gave me "impact" to the photo and I voted higher.
I HOPE that explains it now? If not, you can PM me. I am moving on to other sites and other threads now.
Rose
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12/13/2005 05:33:16 PM · #59 |
Rose's voting procedure is a lot like mine..only different :-D
First everyone gets a 1 regardless of whether I like them or not....This is mainly to tick off all the people who watch the first night of scores like a chicken hawk.... This also helps me get all the photos in a voting cue so I can look at them as a group as well as individually.
Then I peruse the group and see if any of them catch my eye.
Then it is a a free for all...I can be swayed by money, free camera equipment or returned high votes on my photo!
Later in the week..after all the gnashing of teeth and when I get a nice day to look at em all again..I will vote again. This is my "sleep on it" vote.
I have no point scale...if you kick a$$...you get a good score ..nuff said :-D |
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12/13/2005 05:35:15 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by Rose8699:
I am moving on to other sites and other threads now.
Rose |
Please do.
For someone who previously said she was done with the forums on DPC, you sure do post in the forums a lot.
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12/13/2005 05:37:54 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by hokie:
A simple Google search for Puns would reveal more puns than could be shot in a lifetime.
But, I have a feeling a photo will do well if it appeals to the broadest group of voters..with or without an accurate pun. |
Just one more thing on this subject before I move on...
"Relief - what trees do in the spring." A pun is a play on words which have a similar sound but different meanings. Now it's your turn to take a photograph that visually represents a different application of a word or words."
Hence some examples would be:
"Butterfly" (butter-fly), with a stick of butter flying through the air would be a photograph that "visually represents a different application of the word or words."
"Skyscraper", with someone putting a squeegy (spelling?)up to the sky and maybe doing a b/w effect on everything but where the squeegy scraped, revealing maybe a partial sunset or cloud formation would be another.
If you look up Puns on google, you will find riddles and jokes and such, as rachel gave. IF you look up "play on words" you will find idioms. I think that is why there is going to be a miss mosh of different entries in this challenge, because of the way it is worded.
This is why "Holy Cow" may not be a pun, but it does fit the challenge description very well. You could have a cow with holes in it, or you could have a cow on a Holy Cross or coming out of a church, etc. Its a twist on the actual meaning or phrase.
Many of both puns and idioms will be submitted IMO, and I intend to vote them all on their merit, no matter which one is entered.
Rose
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12/13/2005 05:51:26 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Rose8699:
I am moving on to other sites and other threads now.
Rose |
Please do.
For someone who previously said she was done with the forums on DPC, you sure do post in the forums a lot. |
And its posters like YOU who originally gave me that notion. I see you looked at my profile and saw how I changed the wording so you couldn't use that as against me as a contridiction? LOL....
I changed it becaues I decided to become more intuned to the "wonderful folks here at DPC" and wanted to "try" and be part of all aspects of the site again after many many many uncalled for incidents, like this one, since I PAY my dues to. BUT posters like you come along and make it VERY difficult.
You can simply ignore my posts if you don't like them, or they are too vast for you, because I will be posting when and where I choose, and I came back and posted again here simply because I COULD.
Good day,
Rose
Message edited by author 2005-12-13 17:52:34.
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12/13/2005 06:02:55 PM · #63 |
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12/13/2005 06:05:08 PM · #64 |
My general attitude. If you met the challenge and took a well executed photo. Than I give a base score of 5.
If you didn't meet the challenge in any way that I can see (and I try to be broad minded) you drop a point. If I think it's blatant. (ie: birds, and you put a cute photo of your child with a dog t-shirt or a waterfall, etc.) Than I'll nock it another point or so.
If the technical aspect of the photo is poorly executed, (blurry, out of focus, etc.) you lose another point or two, sometimes 3 if it's really bad. If the composition is poor, you lose 1-4 pts. (usually I find if I am taking a large number of points off for technical or composition, both are bad and the photos a "1" or "2").
On the other hand, if the technical end is exquisite, a well executed DOF, D&B, tone adjustment, etc. I'll often give an extra point or two. This can bring you up to a 6/7.
Composition will get you 1-3 pts usually for a very good execution. Pleasing to the eye, unique, or exquisitely done.
If you have a perfect technical photo that is near perfectly composed and on topic you can get a 10 from me. But usually you'll get a 9 (sometimes an 8 based on appeal).
Creativity are the honey points. You can get 1-4 points for creativity. If I see something I've never seen before then I'll award for the gift. There are times I've seen a superb idea, but it wasn't quite achieved. The technical end of the photo was a three but it got a 7 for a marvelous idea if not perfectly achieved.
But then there are those great shots, that are so uniquely surprising. (Or possibly surprisingly humorous. A good example was this one.  which caught me by surprise and stirred my funny bone.
I really try to be somewhat consistent in my voting. And creativity is to me equal to photographic merit. A perfect foto is devoid without good composition and creativity. So top 10's in my book need to combine "technical" with "artistic".
Of note, cats often get a +1 racial bonus, where as many dogs receive a -1 photogenic penalty. But there are exceptions. ;)
Some will argue against formula, well this is not a formula but rather a casual analysis of my voting habits. I am not saying one should have a formula, God forbid...vote as you feel. (Nor am I saying you can't have one.)
What I am saying is everyone should be able to justify WHY they voted the way they did. (And I feel this is a just statement as I believe if were to merely take my D10 out of my dice collection and roll randomly for a score for each foto entry, most would be pieved. Nor, would my participation reflect the desired purpose and intention of DPC.)
*shrug*
That's just my 44 cents worth. |
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12/13/2005 06:09:42 PM · #65 |
Just to try to bring this back on track, I am struck by how hung up people are getting over what a verbal pun is (or is not), over how to define the concept "pun". The challenge is NOT "Puns", it is "Visual Puns". This is a photography site, people, the ongoing "poems and images" thread notwithstanding. Here's your challenge:
Visual Puns: ." A pun is a play on words which have a similar sound but different meanings. Now it's your turn to take a photograph that visually represents a different application of a word or words."
The challenge is NOT limited to "illustrating a verbal pun", and I am vaguely incredulous that some seem to think it is. The challenge is to make a "visual" pun. The aforementioned examples are excellent responses to the challenge, IMO: butter with wings, cows full of holes, fork in the road, etc. These are excellent [i]visual puns even if they are mediocre (or even execrable) verbal puns.
I swear I am going to head for the rant forum with all guns blazing if this challenge votes up the "best" verbal puns at the expense of truly excellent visual puns.
'Nuff said!
Robt.
Sheesh, I just realized the THREAD is candlelight, not puns. How did it morph into puns?
Message edited by author 2005-12-13 18:21:25. |
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12/13/2005 06:13:20 PM · #66 |
I was trying to extract the essence of this rather classic thread and wondered if I got it right.
Vote down images you don't like = bad
Vote up images you like = good |
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12/13/2005 06:18:37 PM · #67 |
 Would prolly be voted down by the nit pickers from all sides...too many candles...does not look like candles...don't see the candle light cuz it's B & W...:D
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12/13/2005 06:35:00 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by megatherian:
this whole concept of "voting down" is very much like punishment.
You didn't do what I wanted so now I will punish you.
Wouldn't it be better to "vote up" a picture and reward the people who are doing what you want them to? |
Just for clarification, I am a very sarcastic person and often times my attempt at humor does not come across well in forums or chat rooms.
This statement is sort of a glass half full / empty sort of thing and deals with "control" issues. Either way the glass is still half water and half air - what you are left with is the same.
Vote up - vote down, we all do it via our preferences. I can label everything a 10 and vote down the bad ones or label everything a 1 and vote up the good ones. Either way my average is likely to be a 5.
The part of the statement that talks about whether or not you are doing what I want you to was about expectation. When you shoot the photo you have no idea what my expectations are, yet when I vote on your image I vote on how it fits my expectation. Control. I expect you to know what I want and my vote will reflect how well you've done that.
(Now when I say "I" and am speaking figuratively. If you'd like to know how I vote take a look at my thread "vote concept and photography separately".) |
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12/13/2005 07:03:47 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by megatherian:
The part of the statement that talks about whether or not you are doing what I want you to was about expectation. When you shoot the photo you have no idea what my expectations are, yet when I vote on your image I vote on how it fits my expectation. Control. I expect you to know what I want and my vote will reflect how well you've done that. |
Interesting. For me, my expectations play very little role in how I vote. Sometimes I expect boring shots, and it is the unexpected ones that are rewarded. Sometimes I expect there will be a lot of [insert "bug", "eye", "dictionary", "sunset", etc as you see fit]. While this is tiring, if a shot is good it's good, if it ain't, it ain't. On the other hand, in shooting for a challenge, I may take voter expectation into account in two ways. First, if I expect there the be a lot of [insert whatever here] shots, I may make an attempt to avoid that type of shot unless I feel my shot will be better than x number of similar shots. Generally I would tend to prefer my shot to stand out as the unexpected shot. Second, I take into account what I expect the voters will consider to meet the challenge, and will probably tend to avoid a shot which many may think doesn't meet the challenge, even if I strongly feel that it does.
EDIT: When I say 'I', I mean me personally!
Message edited by author 2005-12-13 19:04:52. |
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12/13/2005 07:31:09 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by doctornick:
Would prolly be voted down by the nit pickers from all sides...too many candles...does not look like candles...don't see the candle light cuz it's B & W...:D |
plus it sorta looks like a christmas orgy... ;) |
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