Uses of shallow DoF - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

12/01/2002 09:02:12 PM · #1

Took these yesterday and thought it might be instructive

This first picture is taken with a very wide depth of field - you can obviously see the wire fence: Aperture at f19.0

Now maybe the second one isn't quite so sharp, just due to the more selective focus, but it is a useful technique none the less.

justine

Canon EOS-50D

12/01/2002 09:09:55 PM · #2

Super Gordon, I like them both. Nice example of DOF/Aperture. You should post this to the 'Tutorials' page. Nice work.

Jacko

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

12/01/2002 09:32:46 PM · #3

Ah man! You got a D60! Sweet. Congratulations Gordon. Awesome picture by the way. Looking forward to seeing more of your work.

kendall

Nikon D1X

12/01/2002 10:40:17 PM · #4

you can kinda see the fence in the background of the second shot. but i know what you mean and i have done that for years. It's sound advice. Most of the F-2.8 telephotos are very sharp wide open. Here is a sample of a 300 F-2.8 @ F-4

Yomi

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8 VR

12/01/2002 10:53:26 PM · #5

Originally posted by Jacko:
Ah man! You got a D60! Sweet. Congratulations Gordon. Awesome picture by the way. Looking forward to seeing more of your work.

haha! Jacko I feel the same way. I bought my G2 in Aug. and I'm already wanting to upgrade to a D60 just cause I don't ever think I'll be able to get the EOS 1D or the 1Ds.

Thanks for that example. I didn't know DOF would do anything like that with the fence. Great shots Gordon!

12/02/2002 01:16:35 AM · #6

i guess you dont care...

* This message has been edited by the author on 12/2/2002 7:22:30 PM.

12/02/2002 01:17:25 AM · #7

whoa its a little big.... sorry ;)

12/02/2002 03:00:33 AM · #8

Looks like someone got a new toy :-)

Originally posted by Gordon:
[i]Took these yesterday and thought it might be instructive

indigo997

Nikon D70

12/02/2002 03:31:46 AM · #9

My problem with the zoo shots is that the camera wants to focus on the fence. How do you avoid that - especially at a distance - without using manual focus?

12/02/2002 08:12:39 AM · #10

Depends on the camera. In the Canon's I've used the focus is done
via contrast analysis of the area under the little AF focus square
that is selected. Putting the camera in one shot focus, rather than
continuous focus mode, and making sure the square was not over any of the
fence wire, and over a contrasty bit of the subject (e.g., a stripe)
made sure the camera focused correctly in most cases.

Once the camera's focused, you can then reframe and shoot.

You can go and find lots of people complaining about poor focus on digital cameras and they aren't wonderful, but you can do a lot more with them if
you learn how they work and thus how to get the best results. In particular, finding out that I had to point at contrasty areas really
helped!

12/02/2002 11:54:17 AM · #11

Actually it seems only CANON has this issue. Try Sony or Nikon, they don't. Even with the D60, they had a hard time focusing (slow focus) at low light conditions, it's not the case with the Nikon D100 or the Fuji S2 Pro which uses Nikon's autofocus hardware.

Either case, your photo above iwth the tiger, you want to show the fence more (the F16 photo), you should use manual focus and set it to the hyperfocal length of the lens, assuming you're far enough from the fence that it fits within the range of it.

Originally posted by Gordon:
Depends on the camera. In the Canon's I've used the focus is done
via contrast analysis of the area under the little AF focus square
that is selected. Putting the camera in one shot focus, rather than
continuous focus mode, and making sure the square was not over any of the
fence wire, and over a contrasty bit of the subject (e.g., a stripe)
made sure the camera focused correctly in most cases.

Once the camera's focused, you can then reframe and shoot.

You can go and find lots of people complaining about poor focus on digital cameras and they aren't wonderful, but you can do a lot more with them if
you learn how they work and thus how to get the best results. In particular, finding out that I had to point at contrasty areas really
helped!

12/02/2002 12:02:26 PM · #12

Originally posted by paganini:
Actually it seems only CANON has this issue. Try Sony or Nikon, they don't. Even with the D60, they had a hard time focusing (slow focus) at low light conditions, it's not the case with the Nikon D100 or the Fuji S2 Pro which uses Nikon's autofocus hardware.

Either case, your photo above iwth the tiger, you want to show the fence more (the F16 photo), you should use manual focus and set it to the hyperfocal length of the lens, assuming you're far enough from the fence that it fits within the range of it.

I didn't want to show more. I was demonstrating that you can show less by careful use of the optical properties. and all contrast based focusing systems need contrast to focus. Learning how the focus works in the camera means you can use it more effectively, that was all I was saying. I haven't seen any focus problems with either of my canon cameras - once you learn to work with the tool it gets a lot easier.

12/02/2002 12:21:19 PM · #13

Uh, you probably experience it with the G2, everyone has. Try pointing at a moving object and photograph it and it won't work because it'll take a second to focus. The D60 works faster but still not that fast. The best autofocus in the Canon line seems to be the D1x

Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by paganini:
[i]Actually it seems only CANON has this issue. Try Sony or Nikon, they don't. Even with the D60, they had a hard time focusing (slow focus) at low light conditions, it's not the case with the Nikon D100 or the Fuji S2 Pro which uses Nikon's autofocus hardware.

Either case, your photo above iwth the tiger, you want to show the fence more (the F16 photo), you should use manual focus and set it to the hyperfocal length of the lens, assuming you're far enough from the fence that it fits within the range of it.

I didn't want to show more. I was demonstrating that you can show less by careful use of the optical properties. and all contrast based focusing systems need contrast to focus. Learning how the focus works in the camera means you can use it more effectively, that was all I was saying. I haven't seen any focus problems with either of my canon cameras - once you learn to work with the tool it gets a lot easier.
[/i]

12/02/2002 12:49:47 PM · #14

Originally posted by paganini:
Uh, you probably experience it with the G2, everyone has. Try pointing at a moving object and photograph it and it won't work because it'll take a second to focus.

Yup, I wouldn't expect it to work in that situation. You'd be better
focusing on something static at the same distance, and locking that in
with the manual focus button once you've got focus automatically. Works
a treat on the G2. Like I said, learning how to best use it helps getting
the best results. Doing things that you wouldn't expect to work because
of how the focus system is implemented isn't going to get you good results, like the situation you describe.

12/02/2002 02:34:22 PM · #15

You're missing the point, Gordon.

A simple point and shoot camera can out perform a G2 :-) Nikon and Sony cameras will outperform the G2. it's not limited to "all digital" cameras as you claimed before, for some reason, Canon has that issue. The same issue is there for the D60 under low light conditions. I think Nikon simply has a better autofocus system by far. Doesn't amtter, with a SLR, i still prefer to shoot in manual focus mode anyway, i like the pentaprism, where with the G2 the manual focus is useless. The same autofocus problem exists in the S30/S40 Canon series as well, so it's not just limited to the G2.

But, the D60 and other SLR have better DoF because it doesn't suffer from diffraction issue that G2 does. At F5.6 and above, the G2 will experience diffraction blurs, so at F8, even though DoF is the greatest, the image is not sharp while for a D60, F8 will be both greater DOF AND shaper in resolving power.

I dunno, i want a digital SLR but I am not sure i'd stay with Canon at this point -- i might have to convert to a Nikonian :)

Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by paganini:
[i]Uh, you probably experience it with the G2, everyone has. Try pointing at a moving object and photograph it and it won't work because it'll take a second to focus.

Yup, I wouldn't expect it to work in that situation. You'd be better
focusing on something static at the same distance, and locking that in
with the manual focus button once you've got focus automatically. Works
a treat on the G2. Like I said, learning how to best use it helps getting
the best results. Doing things that you wouldn't expect to work because
of how the focus system is implemented isn't going to get you good results, like the situation you describe.[/i]

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

12/02/2002 02:42:49 PM · #16

Originally posted by paganini:

You're missing the point, Gordon.

and you are missing the point too. It isn't about Canon or Nikon or
any other manufacturer. All digital and film cameras have their own
particular flaws or quirks. If you don't learn how to work with the
tools you have, you'll spend all your time complaining in forums about
Bayes interpolation problems because you don't have a foveon chip, or
explaining how it wasn't really your fault that you missed a shot,
just the camera doesn't do this or that.

The point is if you learn to use what you have well, you'll get better
results than complaining about how it wasn't your fault that the focus
isn't good on canons, or that nikon don't make the best image stabilisation, or if you'd had a sharper lens you could have got a shot
and so on and so on. Camera forums are full of people blaming their cameras for the problems they have, when if they spent a bit more time
learning how to use the equipment to the best of its abilities, rather
than complaining, they might do a whole lot better.

Sure the D60 autofocus could be a lot better. So could the G2's autofocus. I'd be much happier with a 45 point metering system, or
something that would focus in the dark with an IR focus assist.

However, the D60 will also quite happily focus quickly in complete
darkness, if you know how to use it, and I've taken plenty of action
shots with my G2 without focus problems. It isn't perhaps as easy as
just pointing and shooting, but it certainly works if you bother to
take the time to learn how to use them to their best.

jimmythefish

Canon EOS-10D

12/02/2002 02:49:36 PM · #17

if you want to see a D60 perform well under low light conditions...check this out:

Rotterdam bridge

kendall

Nikon D1X

12/02/2002 07:07:36 PM · #18

a1leyez0nm3 That is one killer background, love it. I always wanted a fast 85mm

paganini said : you should use manual focus and set it to the hyperfocal length of the lens
Thats hard to do with a telephoto. real hard

paganini said : The best autofocus in the Canon line seems to be the D1x
The D-1x is a nikon camera

gordon said : The point is if you learn to use what you have well, you'll get better results

I agree with this totaly

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

12/02/2002 07:30:46 PM · #19

Originally posted by kendall:
a1leyez0nm3 That is one killer background, love it. I always wanted a fast 85mm

paganini said : [i]you should use manual focus and set it to the hyperfocal length of the lens
Thats hard to do with a telephoto. real hard

paganini said : The best autofocus in the Canon line seems to be the D1x
The D-1x is a nikon camera

gordon said : The point is if you learn to use what you have well, you'll get better results

I agree with this totaly
[/i]

thank you, youre the only one that even bothered to post about it... everyone else is too busy** (arguing) about the cameras and DOF.... if you get my drift...

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

12/02/2002 07:50:47 PM · #20

Originally posted by a1leyez0nm3:
Originally posted by kendall:
[i]a1leyez0nm3 That is one killer background, love it. I always wanted a fast 85mm
thank you, youre the only one that even bothered to post about it... everyone else is too busy** (arguing) about the cameras and DOF.... if you get my drift...

Could you re-post a smaller version? I wasn't able to get a good look in my browser and didn't download it...

12/02/2002 08:21:46 PM · #21

Originally posted by a1leyez0nm3:
[
thank you, youre the only one that even bothered to post about it...

I know I didn't say anything about it because it was simply so big I couldn't see more than about 1/8th of it at a time - I don't even
know I could say what it was a picture of really. Maybe at home with
a larger monitor I could tell but not from a laptop screen. sorry!

Journey

Canon PowerShot G3

12/02/2002 09:01:32 PM · #22

Originally posted by jimmythefish:
if you want to see a D60 perform well under low light conditions...check this out:

Rotterdam bridge

Originally posted by jimmythefish:
if you want to see a D60 perform well under low light conditions...check this out:

Rotterdam bridge

Jimmythefish, i love that Rotterdam bridge picture. I love it all the more since Rotterdam is/was my hometown, was born and raised there :) Thanks for posting the link here; you're making my day!

12/03/2002 01:15:16 AM · #23

Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by a1leyez0nm3:
[i]Originally posted by kendall:
[i]a1leyez0nm3 That is one killer background, love it. I always wanted a fast 85mm
thank you, youre the only one that even bothered to post about it... everyone else is too busy** (arguing) about the cameras and DOF.... if you get my drift...

Could you re-post a smaller version? I wasn't able to get a good look in my browser and didn't download it...[/i]

yea i have been meaning to do that....
sorry i linked it to the actual image and not the resized one...

well that one wasnt a very good example, so ill just give you this one (i like this one better ;))

texttext

12/03/2002 01:22:42 AM · #24

I took that one (above) with the same canon eos-d30 and 85mm lens @F1.2... i used the narrow DOF to fade the flowers... if you look at the card on the in focus bottle, you can see that about 1in is in focus... and this was from about 1-1.5 meters away...

* This message has been edited by the author on 12/3/2002 1:24:48 AM.