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10/19/2005 12:47:36 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by bucket:
you know I really don't understand the idea of being disappointed in challenges...
it seems in these cases there is a personal sense of injustice...very similar to saying "my picture is underrated"...
I just can't see the value in letting other people's opinions affect my vision that strongly..I respect the process, I do not think doing well is a bad thing, but getting good scores has never really been my ultimate goal...I shot a portrait that I absolutely knew people wouldn't necessarily pick up on..but hey some did
( thanks Ennil for the commment)..and I like it, and am learning to shoot better what I see..
bear music I reallly don't think you need be offended..your shot is wonderful, and all you are hearing is one person's perception of Pride..obviously lots of people didn't see it that way..why let one dissenting voice ruin your day?....me I am always more thrilled to have even person one get excited by one of my shots than a high score...my own personal ribbons..JPR listed my shot as a fav..Blue Ribbon for me! |
here here |
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10/19/2005 12:51:21 PM · #52 |
I rarely (perhaps never) say this...I love the 1st place photo.
But here's my disclaimer...I think photos communicate much better when viewed 'in context'. Many people argue that a photo 'should stand on it's own'...since when? Why? What gives you that idea?
Sure, visual art (in photographic form) can 'stand on it's own'...but the photos I love to view tell me stories and stories often need a context. That context can be provided by words (titling the photo "Parking Attendant" or titling a photo story "Albanians") or it can be provided by other means (music, narrative or simply an introduction of some sort). Sure, sometimes a story-telling photo provides it's own context but that doesn't happen often...normally we know something about what we're looking at.
I'd love to debate this more, I feel quite strongly about it... |
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10/19/2005 12:51:41 PM · #53 |
if someone is less intelligent than another, it doesn't make them less a human. it makes them less intelligent period. that is all. And see dsmeth, now you know a new word.
"Without words, we do not have thought. Without thought, we do not have purpose. Without purpose, we do not have hope. And hope is only found in Jesus Christ"
So as you see, words and intelligence do lead us somewhere. And that is what is most important.
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10/19/2005 12:53:06 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by rgo:
Originally posted by bear_music:
Rgo weighed in later and did a wonderful dissection of the "pride component" in Goodman's Blue Ribbon image.
R. |
And frankly, that's what matters within the context of this site. How voters see the shot, not how you see YOUR shot.
For one's own good, however, I'd hope that one has a good view of ONE's own shot regardless of how the voters thought. |
***guess I'm not finished after all, just through debating Cutter :-)***
The voters saw my shot just fine; finished in top 10, made me happy. I was arguing on principle against Cutter's characterization of the top 10, and it seemed easiest to use mine as an example.
R.
Message edited by author 2005-10-19 12:54:22.
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10/19/2005 12:53:53 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by dsmeth:
Originally posted by Cutter:
wonderfully said Beagleboy. A true epistemologist. |
I must be one of the unintelligent ones because I can't even say epistemologist. I had to look up the meaning too!! |
So did I! And now I have more knowledge! Not any more intelligent, but I now know a new word. Cool.
Message edited by author 2005-10-19 12:56:32.
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10/19/2005 12:55:17 PM · #56 |
thatcloud,
I like what you said there.
I personally believe the photo should stand on its own. You don't, but that is fine, especially if you feel photography is a medium that can be bolstered by additional context.
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10/19/2005 12:55:28 PM · #57 |
Sorry Cutter, but to be honest people can take what they like from a title. i understood it in several pictures. One happened to be Pride in a structure/architecture. Others felt they would convey it using a story.
At the end of the day the people decide in numbers. What greater way of knowing that you have taken a good photo.
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10/19/2005 12:55:51 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
The voters saw my shot just fine; finished in top 10, made me happy. I was arguing on principle against Cutter's characterization of the top 10, and it seemed easiest to use mine as an example. |
Hey, I'm not debating you. I liked your shot, and I interpreted for myself the "pride" values in it. And I also presumed you'd probably be pretty happy with your placement, regardless of where that placement is. I think we're debating against the same thing, more or less.
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10/19/2005 12:58:15 PM · #59 |
... and when you say the results are a joke. Well to be honest that is your opinion. Not everyone else's. I have a great sense of pride that I got my first ribbon.
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10/19/2005 12:59:19 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by Cutter:
glad2,
Because of group of lions is called a PRIDE. Get it? Not the human condition, but the name for a "flock" of lions. |
Really? No kidding! I guess those lions show pride in facial expressions better than people do - get it? ;^)
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10/19/2005 01:02:16 PM · #61 |
| The way I look at it, 182 people gave the blue ribbon a score of 6 or higher, deservedly so. Obviously they saw the "pride" in that mans face and also thought it was a great photo. Not everybody uses a blunt object to smack your head with their interpretation of a challenge as in a pride of lions. I've said it before: to question the inegrity of the voters is egotistical and rude. Maybe it's time to open up your mind a bit rather than displace everybody else's. Let's get over it and move on. |
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10/19/2005 01:03:04 PM · #62 |
Alex,
Of the top 3, I felt yours was most worthy. An excellent picture in its own right. And most in the top 10 are good. It is just a stretch that a barn and a cart or a naked body (for example) should ever be associated with pride....
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10/19/2005 01:03:34 PM · #63 |
knowledge:
- The state or fact of knowing.
- Familiarity, awareness, or understanding gained through experience or study.
- The sum or range of what has been perceived, discovered, or learned.
intelligence:
- The capacity to acquire and apply knowledge.
Because someone does or does not know the symbol for Canada is completely unrelated to their intelligence. If they've been told over and over that the symbol for Canada is the maple leaf, and they still respond "its beer!", er, ok bad example... if the still reply "its a palm tree", then you might question their intelligence. Equating regional trivia with intelligence shows a lack of, well, intelligence (i.e. the ability to aquire and apply the knowledge of the use of these two words). :)
As far as the original topic, perhaps what the results of this challenge reveal are your lack of insight and perception, not a lack of credibility of a web site (which, really, doesn't have "credibility" per se - its a community, not an institution). |
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10/19/2005 01:04:41 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by Cutter:
Alex,
It is just a stretch that a barn and a cart or a naked body (for example) should ever be associated with pride.... |
Weeeeelll, some of us will just stoop to anything for a ribbon :)
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10/19/2005 01:05:01 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by Cutter:
It is just a stretch that ... a naked body (for example) should ever be associated with pride.... |
I guess I can extrapolate from that statement that you're ashamed of your own body and your nakedness. I guess that's sad ... for you.
PS You keep this up and I'll get even more bitchy.
Message edited by author 2005-10-19 13:05:37.
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10/19/2005 01:06:40 PM · #66 |
I find it interesting, and it is a pattern, that when someone advocates debate about something, that it is the "others" who then become slanderous. I simply opened this up for discussion. Others have continued to call me egotistical, lacking intellgence, rude, ridiculous, etc. Interesting huh?
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10/19/2005 01:11:45 PM · #67 |
I did not enter the Pride challenge, but I'll risk to enter my opinion on this perennial subject. I think a vast majority of photographs (especially, good ones :)) are ambigous enough to convey multiple messages. That is why it is meaningless to ask, what message this photograph conveys - you can get 1,2,3,..,10 different answers. More correct is to ask, whether a photograph conveys this particular message or emotion, and if yes, then fine, it met the challenge. After that, the sheer quality of the photograph (including technical, artistic, creative, WOW components) comes into play, and as we all know, DPC voters value these components very high, perhaps higher than meeting the challenge (as long as it the photo does meet it to a certain extent). So in a competition between two photos among which one just meets the challenge but is a great photo, and another which is more squarely on the point, but of a lesser photographic quality, the first usually wins. This is just a fact of life here, take it or leave it.
Message edited by author 2005-10-19 13:22:38.
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10/19/2005 01:11:55 PM · #68 |
ScottK,
Those definitions are exactly my point. If someone doesn't have the capacity for knowledge, they are unintelligent. If you don't have the capacity for knowledge, then you certainly can't have knowledge itself. So intelligence and knowledge are linked hand in hand. If I know 101 things, and you know 102. You are more knowledgable. If I know 101 things 100 times better than you know those 101 things, than I am more intelligent...you see?
Most people knew that it was a leaf = knowledge
Some people knew that it was a symbol for canada = intelligent
Do you see the application aspect there? That is what I am speaking of.
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10/19/2005 01:12:21 PM · #69 |
A little bit of courtesy goes a long way - taking a swipe at images others have submitted and garnered praise from their peers, as evidenced by the end voting results, is a bit rude - don't you think.
You certainly can't be surprised at the fallout and rallying of the troops against you - are you?
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10/19/2005 01:14:02 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by Cutter:
Alex,
Of the top 3, I felt yours was most worthy. An excellent picture in its own right. And most in the top 10 are good. It is just a stretch that a barn and a cart or a naked body (for example) should ever be associated with pride.... |
Hmm, that wasn't exactly what you said in your original post:
"I believe only three pictures in the top 10 in PRIDE evoke any sense of pride....and that is using a liberal understanding of that word. ..."
And then you qualified which three as "Numbers 6-8". Didn't sound like you thought it worthy at all... |
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10/19/2005 01:15:51 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
Originally posted by bucket:
bear music I reallly don't think you need be offended..your shot is wonderful, and all you are hearing is one person's perception of Pride..obviously lots of people didn't see it that way..why let one dissenting voice ruin your day?....me I am always more thrilled to have even person one get excited by one of my shots than a high score...my own personal ribbons..JPR listed my shot as a fav..Blue Ribbon for me! |
***brief return***
I'm not "offended" in any personal way. Had Cutter singled out my image only among the top 10 to denigrate, I'd not have said a word. But the man expressed the opinion that the entire top 10 is supect, including all 3 ribbon winners, and I don't agree with that at all. It was just easier to use my own image as an exemplar, and safer, in the sense that I wouldn't be misrepresenting anyone else's.
Rgo weighed in later and did a wonderful dissection of the "pride component" in Goodman's Blue Ribbon image.
R. |
just to make this clear..I didn't really think you would be affected in the long haul..and I certainly respect your willingness and ablitity to articulate clearly your position...
oh and rgo...it does mean something..thanks. |
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10/19/2005 01:15:55 PM · #72 |
I'd like to say something serious about my "cart and barn" picture, because I am not thickskinned (and don't want to be) and I am feeling a bit hurt.
I did not think the picture would do well. I was surprised that it did as well as it did. The score is not stellar, even with the ribbon. As a picture, I think it could be much better (the "barn" in particular is distracting).
But as far as an entry into "Pride", I don't think it's so bad. I think it is important that people take pride in their history. This picture was made at an outdoor museum in Cody, Wyoming, where there's an effort to preserve a lot of the old buildings and tools from the pioneer days in Wyoming. To some this would be a picture of shame or conquest rather than pride. I know that. But as fitting as an entry to the challenge, it fits. Many who would see the picture would think of pioneers and the history of the West, even without the title. And I'm proud of the picture, and of the ribbon, even though it is a bit embarrasing to get a ribbon with such a low score.
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10/19/2005 01:18:07 PM · #73 |
Talking about "knowledge", when I first lived in the USA, I lived in Nebraska, close to Lincoln, for a couple years. There's a big stadium in Lincoln, home to the University of Nebraska football team. The stadium had (has?) a big "N" on the side. I was told that that's "N for Nowledge".
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10/19/2005 01:18:28 PM · #74 |
As you should be. Congratulations! You earned every bit of it.
Originally posted by ursula:
...I'm proud of the picture, and of the ribbon... |
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10/19/2005 01:18:35 PM · #75 |
Glad2,
The majority of the pictures in the top 30, get there because people find to be good photographs. Like ltsimring said, dnmc is almost secondary, as long as it can be found in the photo. That is why it was low scoring. That is why Scalvert chimed in with his intelligent comment.
That is what artistic critique is all about. To say, no no no, or yes yes yes. Not you as a photographer SUCK. I never said that. Critique the art, not the artist. The artist then takes that critique, thinks about it and improves. That is the whole point. As ursula said, she couldn't give a (#$& what I say because she succeeded. And that is fine. But another might take what i say, even if a winner, and improve next time. Rudeness of a person, i could understand rallying around. A picture, give me a break. They all got top 10 anyway. And that is an accomplishment.
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And now I have more knowledge!
Not any more intelligent, but I now know a new word. Cool.
