Wish List - Av and Tv to control ISO at extremes

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

09/06/2005 12:44:07 PM · #1

I would like to see more flexibility in camera modes, away from the traditional Aperture Priority ("Av") and Shutter Speed Priority ("Tv") that reflect the new capabilities of digital photography.

There are plenty of situations where I have set Av to the widest setting, but the shutter speeds are too low. I don't want to have to go through two menus ore press buttons to alter my ISO and recompose. I want to carry on twiddling my Av dial past the widest aperture (perhaps a combo press), and for the ISO settings to increase (giving me higher shutter speeds). Or to alter the ISO when I am setting the Tv and my shutter speed can go no further because of the limitations of my lens and pre-selected ISO.

Example:

I am at 100 ISO and the widest setting for my lens, f4.0. I get a shutter speed of 1", too slow to hand hold. I want to be able to carry on turning the Av dial to get a faster shutter speed - when the Av control dial goes past a couple of notches, and if I have activated it through the camera settings, the camera ISO ought to start increasing to give me higher shutter speeds.

Or, I want to be able to carry on turning the Tv dial to get a faster shutter speed. When the Tv control dial has reached its highest setting within lens/ISO limits. Rather than just winking at me, I want the thing to start increasing my ISO settings to achieve the shutter speeds that I am asking for.

On cameras with 1/3 increments of ISO speed (such as the 5D), this should work very well and be very usable.

The only reason it is not there, as far as I can work out, is because on film cameras the ISO was fixed by reference to the film used, and such flexibility could not be built in.

Message edited by author 2005-09-06 12:44:41.

strangeghost

Canon EOS-7D

09/06/2005 12:45:25 PM · #2

I agree that this would be a nice feature. Even a menu option that allows one to toggle Av/Tv modes to adjust ISO or not.

kyebosh

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 80-200mm f/2.8L

09/06/2005 12:50:24 PM · #3

the camera would need to know that you're handholding the shot somehow...

Features where the camera changes what you did are very confusing. I was having so much trouble getting my 1D to do what I thought it should because the previous owner had a custom function set that told the camera... If the exposure is not enough to expose correctly, change the variable setting. IE: Tv mode, tv setting at 1/500 av goes to 2.8 and finds there isn't enough light... the camera changes the Tv value to 1/200. Very very annoying imo.

aznym

Fujifilm X-T3

Fujifilm XF 23mm f/2 R WR

09/06/2005 12:54:33 PM · #4

For a bit more flexibility when using Aperture Priority or Shutter Priority, I set the camera on Auto ISO.
The camera always uses the lowest possible ISO and doesn't flash anything to tell me that my settings are ridiculous.

Fujifilm XF 23mm f/2 R WR

09/06/2005 01:00:43 PM · #5

Originally posted by kyebosh:

the camera would need to know that you're handholding the shot somehow...

I am not sure: if I keep pushing for more light, or for a faster shutter speed, when the camera has reached all limits other than increasing the ISO to enable it, shouldn't it start increasing the ISO for me rather than leaving me to stand up and fiddle for 20 seconds?

Originally posted by xion:

Tell me about this - does Nikon have this already?

kyebosh

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 80-200mm f/2.8L

09/06/2005 01:08:04 PM · #6

how would the camera know if you're going for a long exposure or not? How would it know how fast you personally can handhold a shot at? At what focal length? It would all have to be programmed into the camera. Perhaps they could do it in a custom function, but not as a default.

aznym

Fujifilm X-T3

09/06/2005 01:23:42 PM · #7

Doesn't the Canon cameras have an Auto ISO feature too?
I know that a lot of Nikon cameras have that and on D70, it works from ISO 200-1600.
Am I getting a little confused here?

kyebosh

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 80-200mm f/2.8L

09/06/2005 01:28:24 PM · #8

not that i'm aware of... it's been something that's been requested for awhile though.

gloda

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

09/06/2005 01:54:31 PM · #9

It seems that Nikons have a gret advantage there!

coolhar

Canon PowerShot Pro 90 IS

09/06/2005 03:56:14 PM · #10

Some P&S cameras I've used (including one from Canon) have had auto ISO, usually operating within a range less than the camera can be set to manually. But I don't think any Canon DSLRs do. I know my 20D doesn't.

I think leagalbeagle has a very good idea, and that it could be easily incorporated into the firmware of a digicam. Maybe even retro-fitted by way of a firmware update.

Speaking of wish list features-- the 2.5 inch LCD monitor on the new 5D and 1D MkIIn fulfills one of mine, so thanks to Canon for that. Now whens that Samsung with the 3.5 coming out?

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

09/06/2005 05:27:17 PM · #11

20D has the simplest, easiest-to-use ISO change I've ever experienced: push the drive/ISO button on the top deck and spin the big wheel. Takes about a second. No menus required. Only way menu is needed is to use the custom settings to enable shift into ISO 3200, and that can be set once and then ignored. It's like a safety feature to keep you from dialing in 3200 accidentally (it is disabled by default) because it's quite a bit noisier than 1600...

For beagle's suggestion to work, there'd have to be a menu option to enable it anyway, or the camera wouldn't give you long exposures when you want them. Some sort of menu to define the shutter speed below which ISO shift would occur. Seems to me what they have now is pretty simple.

R.

Mattel Barbie Photo Designer Digital Camera

09/07/2005 05:04:13 AM · #12

Originally posted by bear_music:

I don't know about you, but I have to move away from the eyepiece to change the ISO settings on the 20D. Where I am on a low ISO setting, and am requesting higher shutter speeds by turning the dial past the fastest setting at that ISO, the ISO should (perhaps after two clicks) start increasing to give me the higher shutter speed.

If I am on Av mode and keep pushing the dial past the smallest aperture capable by the lens, say f22, the camera should start pushing down the ISO. If I am on Tv, and requesting a shutter speed past the longest achievable on f22, the ISO ought to move downwards.

This feature would make it easier to obtain properly exposed long exposures. The only thing it would prevent would be the ability to under or over expose a picture by more than 2 stops (ie using exposure compensation) in Tv and Av modes - you would have to switch to manual, though it is extremely rare that I want to push the camera exposure that far deliberately (in any case, this should be a feature that can be enabled or disabled in custom functions).

It is something that struck me when reading the 5D stats: for that camera, the ISO settings are in 1/3 increments:

â�¢ Auto (ISO 100 - 400)
â�¢ ISO 50 (Enhanced L) *
â�¢ ISO 100
â�¢ ISO 125
â�¢ ISO 160
â�¢ ISO 200
â�¢ ISO 250
â�¢ ISO 320
â�¢ ISO 400
â�¢ ISO 500
â�¢ ISO 640
â�¢ ISO 800
â�¢ ISO 1000
â�¢ ISO 1250
â�¢ ISO 1600
â�¢ ISO 3200 (Enhanced H)

I wondered who would really need to use ISO 500 over 400 - it seemed like a bit of overkill, unless the ISO functions are easily accessible. The auto-ISO function only works for 100-400, so the remainder should be accessible more simply than they are at the moment.

nsbca7

09/07/2005 05:49:12 AM · #13

Originally posted by legalbeagle:

Or, I want to be able to carry on turning the Tv dial to get a faster shutter speed. When the Tv control dial has reached its highest setting within lens/ISO limits. Rather than just winking at me, I want the thing to start increasing my ISO settings to achieve the shutter speeds that I am asking for.

Mine doesn't wink at me, but I think that would be one of the most annoying feature you could add to a camera. The ISO changes on it's own? I look at a scene and I can most times guess what the ISO, aperture and shutter speeds will be. I can set the ISO accordingly before I even set up for the shot. I want total control over ISO and aperture settings and I would hate to know one changed without me physically making that change.

As an optional feature? Sure, but it would be wasted on me.

PS: I think that is what Program modes are for.

Message edited by author 2005-09-07 05:50:18.

09/07/2005 06:33:48 AM · #14

Not changing on its own randomly - more a case of reaching an extreme in Av or Tv modes and the camera automatically then moving to switch ISO to assist.

It should be rather like the way in which digital zoom is enabled in point and clicks: the optical zoom extends to its maximum, and then, rather than making you press a couple of buttons to enable a digital zoom mode and recompose, the camera automatically starts switching to digital zoom mode. In the same way, when you reach the extremity of Av or Tv mode, and keep your finger held down/keep twisting the dial, the ISO ought to start switching until you are in the right zone.

It is a small point - I agree that switching ISO (or having it set appropriately in advance) is relatively easy. But if it happened, it is the kind of thing that would make me think "that's clever". There are plenty of occassions when taking a quick shot that I lift the camera to capture a fast moving event, ram the Av to to its maximum to get the fastest shutter speed available, and realise that it is still too slow, then spend 2 seconds fiddling with the ISO setting. By which time the action is over. If only I could have simply pushed the ISO higher by a second push of the same dial and snapped...

Message edited by author 2005-09-07 06:34:42.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

09/07/2005 08:05:24 AM · #15

You've basically just described the 'sports' mode. Auto ISO adjustment between 100 & 400 as needed, fastest shutter speed possible etc.