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05/29/2003 10:01:17 PM · #1 |
How about a very specific challenge where we are required to shoot a certain object. No abstract, no fancy "this can be considered xxx too" type of nonsense (this should rule out some "flower" pics hehe).
How about "cameras" and have everyone shoot a photo of a camera and nothing else please! Just an example. Does this limit creativity? Hell no.... Think of someway to shoot a specific object, but in the most creative way, method, etc. What do you think? |
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05/29/2003 10:04:05 PM · #2 |
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05/29/2003 10:09:29 PM · #3 |
I am wondering the same thing as John. I think if you were to do something like that, it should be like the pencil challenge. Additionally I think that there should be something in the wording of the challenge expressing the need for the camera for instance, to be the subject of the photo and not just be included in the picture somewhere. At least that's my interpretation of the subject - The main focal point or co-focal point.
Message edited by author 2003-05-29 22:10:05. |
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05/29/2003 10:23:16 PM · #4 |
| I think the 'no abstract' clause would try to force various literal views of a 'camera'. I think it woudl be a bad idea and a very boring vote. |
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05/29/2003 10:28:20 PM · #5 |
That would be the only way to get 9.00 or more score!
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05/29/2003 10:36:54 PM · #6 |
What kind of camera? A photo camera, or video camera?
:) |
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05/29/2003 10:43:08 PM · #7 |
| awww come on you guys. The "camera" was just an example that came into my mind when i was creating the posting. What I'm trying to say here is, we have everyone shooting a particularly specific item (main subject of photo). A subject that is easily accessible all over the world as to be fair. This will be like being in an art class where students are asked to draw using the same model, and is a great test to the creativity and skills of eat student (photographers in our case). Dont try and get my post all complicated! ;) |
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05/29/2003 10:43:58 PM · #8 |
| "I Am A Camera" is a pretty famous title, not at all a camera obscura. And maybe our lawyer members can tell us whether cameras are ever allowed in camera. |
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05/29/2003 10:49:19 PM · #9 |
shadow: I think a specific challenge like how we did pencil, but using "camera" or "book" or whatever is a good idea. Pencil worked out well. I do also understand the worry over "abstract" in the original thread, but I think I also understand what you meant.
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05/29/2003 11:06:18 PM · #10 |
| I'd like to think the egg challenge was a good example of something specific that allowed the photographer some artistic freedom as well. |
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05/29/2003 11:43:17 PM · #11 |
OK, i guess this is more appropriate for what I'm trying to say. Imagine the next challenged to be like below:
OPEN CHALLENGE:
SUBJECT: telephone
DETAILS: Go out and shoot a photo of a telephone.
This will somewhat point out that we are all supposed to be shooting telephones and not telephone booths, or telephone directories, or the telephone company (or it's building). Get it? |
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05/30/2003 12:17:43 AM · #12 |
| This sounds very boring, both for shooting and voting. |
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05/30/2003 12:20:26 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by Journey:
This sounds very boring, both for shooting and voting. |
damn you're right Journey, LOL. So instead of just being idea-killers, lets think of a way to make this work :) What subject can be interesting and spurs creativity? "Angels"? "people" ? "heroes" ? As long as we can get everyone to shoot the subject and NOT what they perceive is the subject, then it's fine for this "specific" challenge. I mean, when we say "1" pls dont photograph "3-2" or "0.5 + 0.5"
Message edited by author 2003-05-30 00:23:02. |
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05/30/2003 12:30:25 AM · #14 |
Well, Shadow, have a look at the pencil and the egg challenges. Lots of variety because those objects lend themselves to a variety of approaches. In the pencil challenge, for instance, there were lots of drawings as one approach. I just don't see how one can do that with a telephone and, furthermore, you have to take the shot outside. I don't even find a telephone a very interesting object to begin with.
Take an object that have a number of applications and meanings.
Good luck, shadow, you started this and you may finish it :) I got up at 4:30 AM and am just too tired to think. Here's an object for you: BED.
Message edited by author 2003-05-30 00:33:22. |
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05/30/2003 02:21:45 AM · #15 |
| hey, BED is a good idea (^_~) |
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05/30/2003 02:53:15 AM · #16 |
I think almost everybody missed the original intent of the thread. I think a very specific challenge could be a good way to develop skills which some of the photographers here don't even know they don't have (if that makes any sense). A lot of people here log on every week just to see how they should manipulate the title of their flower shot to fit the challenge. It really gets on my nerves sometimes, that people enter good photos which have absolutely nothing to do with the challenge and still get better scores than others who really try to meet the challenge, but end up with less than stunning shots because they are not familiar/comfortable in a certain genre of photography. I also find it amazing that, with the really tough challenges, these shots seem to do extremely well, since they are obviously superior in image quality. Home sweet home is a good example. Instead of entering creative interior and exterior shots of cosy homes, home decorating magazine style, a great many entries went for the DPC safe route, and entered well taken photos that in my opinion have absolutely no connection to the challenge ( which by the way was: "photograph the place where you live").
I know all of this has been said before, but I find it sad that so many people here are afraid to experiment and grow as photographers because they are afraid of what the voters will think. I also find it sad that we as voters are so closed minded when it comes to voting, rewarding people for not wanting to venture out of their little comfort zones.
I have not voted for some time due to time constraints, so I might not be the best person to be pointing fingers, but I do believe the idea of having a "challenge" theme in the first place, is to get people out of these comfort zones, trying new things, taking bad photos and learning at the same time. I don't think entries, we feel do not meet the challenge, should be voted low, I think they should be disqualified. If you entered a photo of your dog to a baby photo competition, it would be thrown out. We should do the same here with photos that do not in any way, shape or form, meet the challenge.
I apologise for the long post, but I've been wanting to say this for a long time.
Message edited by author 2003-05-30 02:56:18.
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05/30/2003 03:05:48 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by Martus:
A lot of people here log on every week just to see how they should manipulate the title of their flower shot to fit the challenge. It really gets on my nerves sometimes, that people enter good photos which have absolutely nothing to do with the challenge... |
I think this is an unwarranted assumption. I think different people enter those things, and I'm pretty sure I can come up with a relationship to the challenge for any photo you care to name...maybe not even the one intended by the photographer.
The artist may not have successfully communicated their interpretation of the challenge TO YOU, but to the dozens of other voters who happily vote high or low on the image, your call to DQ everything YOU can't relate to the challenge is too heavyhanded and pre-empts their opportunity to express their evaluation.
It is attitudes like this that really do tempt me to set up dummy accounts, to submit a version of the same subject for every challenge. But then I'd have to lie down in my BED OF ROSES... |
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05/30/2003 03:10:48 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by Martus:
I think almost everybody missed the original intent of the thread. I think a very specific challenge could be a good way to develop skills which some of the photographers here don't even know they don't have (if that makes any sense). A lot of people here log on every week just to see how they should manipulate the title of their flower shot to fit the challenge. |
Martus, you should have voiced this up earlier. I was trying so hard to tell people this point exactly. I'm poor with words. Thanks. This is precisely what I had in mind. I'm tired of see people trying to manipulate the photos that they shoot best to fit a certain challenge. And worse, many voters have been so forgiving and "encouraging" these photographers to continue getting away with their "pretty shots" that are sometimes only 0.01% relevant to the given topic.
You mentioned comfort zone, that's a powerful word. Kudos |
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05/30/2003 03:40:58 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I think this is an unwarranted assumption. I think different people enter those things, and I'm pretty sure I can come up with a relationship to the challenge for any photo you care to name...maybe not even the one intended by the photographer.
The artist may not have successfully communicated their interpretation of the challenge TO YOU, but to the dozens of other voters who happily vote high or low on the image, your call to DQ everything YOU can't relate to the challenge is too heavyhanded and pre-empts their opportunity to express their evaluation.
It is attitudes like this that really do tempt me to set up dummy accounts, to submit a version of the same subject for every challenge. But then I'd have to lie down in my BED OF ROSES... |
General, I never said I should be asked to judge who gets DQ'ed and who not. I believe I have a fairly open mind when it comes to looking for interpretation of a challenge, but some people really push their luck. To once again use the example of the "home sweet home" challenge, I am not saying DQ everybody who didn't take a photo of a house, or furniture, or something related to the place where they live, but you have to admit that there are a lot of shots in this challenge (and in most other challenges for that matter) where the photographer just seemed to have ignored all of the challenge parameters, as spelled out in the challenge descriptions, and entered whatever they thought would score better than a boring house shot.
I am not one of those anti-cliche people. I love photographing flowers, animals, children, etc., but they don't belong in every challenge.
I still believe that the voters should request an image being DQ'ed, and that the DQ procedure should be different from DQ'ing an illegal image, but I stand to my point that non-challenge related shots should be DQ'ed. It won't happen a lot, I'm sure of that. Once people know that they can longer get away with submitting a cute kitten, when the challenge was to photograph misery, or a nice flower when asked to photograph road signs, they'll stop doing it.
Nobody wants to be DQ'ed, it's not a nice feeling, and I think it would be a sufficient deterant to stop these kinds of entries very quickly.
I also believe that people sometimes vote these images average or above average, because they are afraid of going against the flow. Comments like " Who could give this image a one?" , imply distaste at another person's opinion, which carry a lot of weight with some voters. I believe that many of the newer members look up to the more experienced members such as yourself (I know I do), and with comments like these they are influenced to vote in a certain way. Many newbies read every comment of the more experienced photographers, hoping to learn something, and I believe that in the end, many of them are influenced in their voting patterns.
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05/30/2003 09:50:48 AM · #20 |
So ... do we have an example of a photo not obviously related to the challenge getting a ribbon? Not that springs to my mind: that'll be it's own form of encouragement away from the forced title entries eventually.
Ed
Message edited by author 2003-05-30 09:51:41.
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05/30/2003 09:54:39 AM · #21 |
Just thought I'd get defensive about my home sweet home photo, and say
that it was pretty tricky to meet the strict guidelines of photographing
home seeing as I wasn't there...
:-) |
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05/30/2003 10:05:26 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by e301:
So ... do we have an example of a photo not obviously related to the challenge getting a ribbon? Not that springs to my mind: that'll be it's own form of encouragement away from the forced title entries eventually.
Ed |
For some of us 50th place is just as important as 1st. It is just as big a milestone placing top 100 or top 50, as it is to win a ribbon. Being outdone by a photo that does not even meet the challenge is extremely demoralising.
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05/30/2003 10:06:45 AM · #23 |
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05/30/2003 10:35:56 AM · #24 |
I have just listed the challenges that I have entered, which I feel were fairly defined as to the subject matter. In each of them there were a lot of very imaginative and well-done entries.
Glass
Fauna
Flora
Weather
Candy
Bridges
The Egg
Square
Got Milk
Road Signs Revisited
Landscape
Body Parts
Four
Garbage
Fruits and Vegetables
Pencil
People
I don't think that the subject matter of the challenge is what the problem is at all. I think it is how each person interprets the challenge and how they apply their imagination and skills to show others their interpretation of the challenge. If a persons world revolves around their flower garden and they interpret the challenge of say garbage with a picture of one of their beautiful flowers, then more power to them. In turn if their entry causes the people taking time to LOOK at the pictures before casting a vote, to vote it a winner, then they have accomplished more that someone that just walks outside and takes a lousy picture of "trash in the street", and calls it abstract. Don't push to take the imagination out of DPChallenge.
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05/30/2003 10:37:33 AM · #25 |
Really, *really* bad idea.
Sorry, but some of the best shots on this site have come from people who have come up with highly creative interpretations of the challenge that I would never have thought up in a million years. The threat of disqualification would stop most of them even trying creative ideas in the first place, and we would currently be faced with 200 photos of the outside of houses, just so that everyone makes sure they stay inside your comfort zone.
I am 100% in favour of voting down photos that don't meet the challenge in the opininion of the individual voter, but the DQ threat will just make everybody play it safe, which would be cr^H^H really bad.
Message edited by author 2003-05-30 10:54:13.
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