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08/20/2005 10:43:05 AM · #1 |
I do not plan to debate this or even get drawn into any arguments, but I have to say the following.
Pres Bush said in his weekly radio address that the troops are fighting in Iraq to protect America against bla bla bla. This is what I want to say... I heard that before.
In the apartheid South Africa the dictator* PW Botha always assured the whites, the troops, that fighting in Namibia is actually to protect the South Africans from fighting the war on their doorstep. What bulshit.
We should really wake up to reality in this world and realize "WHAT IS, WAS, AND WILL BE AGAIN"
(Maybe it's a matter of "treat me like a mushroom... keep me in the dark and feed me shit..")
* yes dictator, that we can argue if needed. |
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08/20/2005 11:40:55 AM · #2 |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think."
Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945) |
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08/20/2005 11:45:40 AM · #3 |
I agree. This was the basis for the inspiration of my Illusions challenge pic.
The propaganda machine is in full swing here...
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08/20/2005 04:41:47 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
"What luck for rulers that men do not think."
Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945) |
Wow, that really sums it up. It's even worse when the rulers don't think either.
Before Bush started this mess, my husband and I talked about it and actually predicted everything that has happened. I was even tempted to vote for Bush because I think he needed to stay in power to face the consequences of his rash stupidity.
If two people with no experience in foreign relations or politics could anticipate the chaos and terrorism that would erupt under such circumstances, how could the Administration stick their heads so deep as to believe it would work out peachy?
What incenses me most is that they preyed on the trusting, ask-no questions mentality of Christians. They systematically targeted these people because of their conditioning to "follow the shepherd". I went to church a lot in my youth, and read the entire Bible at least once. I stepped away when I realized that many religious people try to use a good philosophy to control the masses. I believe that's what is happening here.
And to top it off, If you question their logic, you are "Unpatriotic". I resent being held to their pathetic standard of patriotism.
Thanks for the chance to rant. That felt good.
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08/20/2005 05:59:59 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
"What luck for rulers that men do not think."
Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945) |
Wow, that really sums it up. It's even worse when the rulers don't think either.
Before Bush started this mess, my husband and I talked about it and actually predicted everything that has happened. I was even tempted to vote for Bush because I think he needed to stay in power to face the consequences of his rash stupidity.
If two people with no experience in foreign relations or politics could anticipate the chaos and terrorism that would erupt under such circumstances, how could the Administration stick their heads so deep as to believe it would work out peachy?
What incenses me most is that they preyed on the trusting, ask-no questions mentality of Christians. They systematically targeted these people because of their conditioning to "follow the shepherd". I went to church a lot in my youth, and read the entire Bible at least once. I stepped away when I realized that many religious people try to use a good philosophy to control the masses. I believe that's what is happening here.
And to top it off, If you question their logic, you are "Unpatriotic". I resent being held to their pathetic standard of patriotism.
Thanks for the chance to rant. That felt good. |
I'm sorry that your experience with Christians has led you to believe that we have a no-question mentality. I can assure you that is not the case. As was discussed, argued, and debated ad nauseum last October and November, there were many reasons people chose to vote for Bush, and to not vote for Bush. There were many reasons people chose to vote for Kerry, and not to vote for Kerry.
Trust me, GWBush is not my shepherd. While I agree with many of his policies, there are those that I don't agree with. And yes, I agreed with some of Kerry's as well, but when I took a personal inventory of what was important to me, and aligned with my values, I voted for the man that agree with more of them.
And if a Christian questions the logic of those who disagree with him, he is labeled narrow-minded, bigoted, and ignorant. I resent being held to that level of intellectualism. ;)
I guess it all equals out in the end. |
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08/20/2005 06:22:00 PM · #6 |
"Christians" was probably way to general a term; and I apologize for offending you karmat. There are all kinds of Christians just as there are all kinds of people. I believe that the Bush Admin. targeted Evangelicals to support his cause in both elections. And I have personal experience with supporters (family members included) who rely on their church leaders and a very select group of media sources for ALL of their information.
These are the people I had in mind when writing this post. First, let me say that I'm not a Democrat, and I'm not anti-Christian. I am anti-hypocrite, and just about everything that has come from this Admin strikes my as hypocritical. I still believe that they consciously tapped into an existing system and used it to serve their own selfish purposes.
Edit: Just did a search and found an article that says it better than I can:
//www.kottke.org/04/11/how-bush-won
Message edited by author 2005-08-20 23:40:43.
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08/20/2005 06:35:52 PM · #7 |
The current regime used the power of the media to polorize the country into either with them (good, right and patriotic) or against them (anti-war, anti-christian, immoral).It has become un-american to oppose the war, question the government and generally speak your mind against any form of Bush propaganda. Have you tried having a calm, rational conversation with anyone on this lately?
BTW, I am for the troops, against the war, christian and I do NOT believe the biased reporting of mainstream media.
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08/20/2005 06:51:55 PM · #8 |
president Bush is full os shi*, there has NEVER been any threat to the USA from ANY country USA has invaded in the past 40 years, most of these countries doesn't even have a coastline so they would have to fly their soldiers to USA to start a war there.. like they couldnt be contained at a international airport in the states.. or just refused a landing permit and the incoming flight returned ;)
the USA ONLY invade countries that they KNOW are too week to fight back, like Afghanistan, there they attacked some Camels and sheeps, and occational empty tent in the desert with a $2.000.000 lazerguided missiles, there were no soldiers there to fight so they just killed women and children instead.
just like Iraq, they invaded Iraq to get Saddam Hussain, well they got him almost 1 year ago and they are still there.. even if nobody wants them there.. Iraq is one of the worlds biggest oil country and the USA is only there to get the oil.. and the billions of US$ Saddam was hiding there and mysteriously dissapered during the USA invasion.
I say get rid of Bush and you get rid of most of the problems facing USA today.
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08/20/2005 06:56:51 PM · #9 |
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08/20/2005 07:00:16 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by DanSig:
I say get rid of Bush and you get rid of most of the problems facing USA today. |
This is interesting. I'm constantly wondering how we Americans are perceived by those in other countries. There's a lot of talk about how we are hated by lots of people for our arrogance and megalomania.
I'm curious if everyone understands that many of us are just as disgusted with this as they are?
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08/20/2005 07:04:48 PM · #11 |
Amen to that!
Could it be that the world perceives Americans throught the eyes of Hollywood directors and Multi-conglomerate corporate media?
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08/20/2005 07:13:23 PM · #12 |
anyone that isn't obsessed with ruling the world is disgusted by Bush and his activities, how could we not be ?
the USA were the founders of the UN and NATO, when the USA wanted to invade Iraq both the UN and NATO refused to give their permission to invade, if UN and NATO would follow the rules set by USA when UN and NATO was founded, the USA would be considered a terrorist country and all UN and NATO countries have the obligation to stand together and protect Iraq and attack the USA.
by invading Iraq the USA broke ALL laws set by USA and the other founders of UN and NATO and incriminated USA as a terrorist country that should be prosecuted in the war criminal court in HAAG.
but as we all know Bush is just crazy enough to go to war against both Nato and the UN, but what amazes me the most is WHY did the majority of the USA population vote for a second Bush when they KNEW he was even more fuc?ed up than his father ?
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08/20/2005 07:17:49 PM · #13 |
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08/20/2005 07:19:46 PM · #14 |
Double Post
Message edited by author 2005-08-20 19:20:28.
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08/20/2005 07:20:08 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by barndog:
We invade Iceland next. |
Wait...how much oil does Iceland have?
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08/20/2005 07:31:19 PM · #16 |
World views of the US, polls: Pew Research and BBC/PIPA.
Message edited by author 2005-08-20 19:31:59. |
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08/20/2005 08:08:00 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
Originally posted by barndog:
We invade Iceland next. |
Wait...how much oil does Iceland have? |
Who cares, it's the scenery we want anyway. |
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08/20/2005 08:37:34 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by NathanW:
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
Originally posted by barndog:
We invade Iceland next. |
Wait...how much oil does Iceland have? |
Who cares, it's the scenery we want anyway. |
lol.. that is about all we have.. and a truckload of cameragear :)
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08/20/2005 10:39:23 PM · #19 |
i must say that i am a democrat haha, but I voted for Bush so I could keep my job. I dont know how I let myself end up in the job that i do considering i dont really want to defend wars, but it pays the bills i guess...it's funny though because so many people complain about how the war is so wrong and how all these troops are being killed...but i work with many of people who have been to Iraq and made it home safely. They have lost friends and are sad, but they of all people do not complain. They chose to enlist themselves and to fight for our country at whatever cost. I envy their courage and will, to do these types of things because I know I couldn't.
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08/20/2005 10:45:42 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by queanbeez:
i must say that i am a democrat haha, but I voted for Bush so I could keep my job. I dont know how I let myself end up in the job that i do considering i dont really want to defend wars, but it pays the bills i guess...it's funny though because so many people complain about how the war is so wrong and how all these troops are being killed...but i work with many of people who have been to Iraq and made it home safely. They have lost friends and are sad, but they of all people do not complain. They chose to enlist themselves and to fight for our country at whatever cost. I envy their courage and will, to do these types of things because I know I couldn't. |
That's intriguing. Out of curiosity, what is your job?
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08/20/2005 10:52:51 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by barndog:
Amen to that!
Could it be that the world perceives Americans throught the eyes of Hollywood directors and Multi-conglomerate corporate media? |
I agree with your "Amen to that!" statement, but not on the grounds you propose. I have traveled extensively throughout Europe, Asia, and Central America over the last 6 years and have found that regardless of the "media" available to populations throughout the world, the general populace (to which I have been exposed) has been thoroughly and disgustedly fed up with Bush's politics, personal agendas, and actions on behalf of the United States' citizens). I say this with special regard to the fact that most of the people I have spoken with have also declared their firm belief that the United States' citizens do not as a rule hold the same "values" that Bush does. They feel he is essentially a dictator who has come to power by preying on those who need something to believe in and are easily prone to fear because of 9/11 (not unlike Hitler I have been told on numerous occasions). These people range from the completely uneducated to those with advanced degrees and access to the Internet. I don't think that when the United States stands alone against world organizations such as the UN and the G8 that it can be misinterpreted too many different ways.
Yes, I am a registered democrat. Yes, my grandfather was a Senator from Virginia. Yes, I vehemently oppose Bush's policies. Yes, I support the men and women who valiantly and boldly fight for the US government and freedom/democracy worldwide. No, I do not believe that every country, culture, religious sect, wants or needs the US' currently selfish interest in "promoting" their agenda. Yes, Saddam Hussein was a tyrant. Yes, he committed atrocities against his people. No, he had no WMDs and he had absolutely no connection with Al Queda or 9/11 (both of which were the explicit reasons given by Bush for the US's invasion of Iraq). Did the US act when genocide was being committed in Africa? NO. There was no wealth to be easily appropriated in the Sudan or Ethiopia or Uganda.
Unfortunately, I have to agree that the Bush administration has expertly preyed on the Christian right (BTW whom I agree with on a great number of policies) and the uneducated population of the USA to achieve his very personal and self-riteous objectives. IMHO, I think he is the scariest and most dangerous person to have ever held the office of US President, because he truly believes he "has is acting on a mission from God" (and this is a quote from his interview with Jerry Falwell). I'm sorry, but I have a real hard time swallowing that when so many innocent people (US citizens, Iraqis, Afghans, etc.) are being killed every day on his behalf.
And yes, I have to agree with you greatandsmall, it felt VERY good to get it off my chest.
Jimmy
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08/20/2005 10:56:12 PM · #22 |
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08/20/2005 11:11:51 PM · #23 |
| I will get to this in a minute. |
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08/21/2005 12:14:52 AM · #24 |
This thread is a breath of fresh air!!!
Queenbeez...
As far as military personel not complaining, well first of all, some are and have gone awol not to fight in an immoral war. Secondly, you won't hear what most military personnel are truly thinking because they are taught to follow orders and it's very dangerous to dissent. It could get you in a heap of trouble, and maybe even get physically hurt by your fellow soldiers ("friendly fire"). When in dangerous territory, such as Iraq, you are relying heavily on fellow military personnel and you would be insane to jeapordize your well being by dissenting.
Karmat...
Just what Bush policies do you agree with? I can't think of one that has been good for the people of this country...unless you're very rich, of course.
This war is a bunch of bull! Bush won't even meet with some of the mothers who have had their children killed in the war. Why are the media not showing the caskets of soldiers who have died in Iraq when they come home?
If the Islamic terrorists are attacking us because of our "freedoms," as the Bush administration would lead you to believe, then why aren't the terrorists attacking Austrailia? Are they not free in Aussieland?
How about Japan? Are the Japanese not free? Switzerland? New Zealand?
There is documentation out there showing that the Bush administration had planned all along to attack Iraq from the inception of their administration. Paul O'Neill (former secretary of the treasury) has already gone public with this, as has Richard Clarke (former counterterrorism aide to both Clinton and the current Pres Bush). In addition, there is the Downing Street memo, which has not been heard much about in the US, but it's basically a memo that was distributed to British government officials in Tony Blair's administration, that basically said that Bush saw military action against Iraq as inevitable, and they were going to manipulate and fix the facts and intelligence for WMDs and links of Hussein to Al Qaeda to convince the US public.
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08/21/2005 12:42:58 AM · #25 |
Thank you Olyuzi... To me, it is simply amazing that the population of the USA is so oblivious or simply obstinate to the facts at hand. It's truly a sad state of affairs in my humble eyes. I only wish that my vote could count more than it does. As it currently stands, the majority of voters (depending on your particular viewpoint, but I think we can mostly agree on this point) in a democratic republic agreed to put him back into office (for whatever reasons). I simply refuse, however, to sit idly by and not speak my mind when Bush does things I disagree with - to do so would be to disregard all that the USA stands for. (yes, I'm rambling...)
Simple answer - Hear hear... I'm with you brother!
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