dust in basic... - DPChallenge Forums

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/27/2005 03:49:54 PM · #101

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

I don't think making it easier for experienced photographers to win ribbons is a good thing for carrying out the the primary function of the Open Challenges.

OK... I just hadn't seen any guidelines describing the primary functions of the open and member challenges until today :)

From the "About" Page:
The original idea behind the site was for it to be a place where the two of us and a couple of our friends could teach ourselves to be better photographers by giving each other a 'challenge' for the week.

Really, I thought you were quite familiar with these precepts ....

rox_rox

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

07/27/2005 03:53:37 PM · #102

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

I don't think making it easier for experienced photographers to win ribbons is a good thing for carrying out the the primary function of the Open Challenges.

OK... I just hadn't seen any guidelines describing the primary functions of the open and member challenges until today :)

From the "About" Page:
The original idea behind the site was for it to be a place where the two of us and a couple of our friends could teach ourselves to be better photographers by giving each other a 'challenge' for the week.

Really, I thought you were quite familiar with these precepts ....

And here I thought it was a place for people to gripe about the "nitty-gritty". Dang, am I disappointed!

Edit: Add Winky Face;)

Message edited by author 2005-07-27 15:54:08.

graphicfunk

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

07/27/2005 04:05:08 PM · #103

Originally posted by GeneralE:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Really? This does not answer the question posed by John. In your explanation you combined both the open and member into one.

Message edited by author 2005-07-27 16:06:16.

lwkimages

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/27/2005 04:23:20 PM · #104

I'm surprised noone has expressed the simplest of solutions to this:

Don't allow any plain backgrounds or high f-stop numbers (> f/16) to be used in any of the challenges. That would effectively eliminate all dust bunnies.

;-)

thatcloudthere

Canon EOS-1D

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

07/27/2005 04:25:43 PM · #105

B ...a little sensor dust is a good thing for the voters to 'get over' so they can look at the photo itself. Big deal.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/27/2005 04:35:16 PM · #106

Originally posted by graphicfunk:

Really? This does not answer the question posed by John. In your explanation you combined both the open and member into one.

Originally, there were no Open and Member challenges; all challenges were open, free to registrants, and conducted according to the "Classic" rule set which is essentially the same as the current Basic rules set. It is the paid-member-only, Advanced rules challenges which are a new addition to the site, and that only after significant debate.

So, IMO, the Basic rules challenges represent exactly what the site was originally, including the purpose of those challenges. If you want to show off your post-processing skills, pay up the membership fee and enter an Advanced rules challenge, or just post images to your portfolio and print galleries.

I think it sounds greedy to want to change the rules of the Open challenges to the benefit of experienced photographers, at the expense of beginners.

Exactly why is this necessary? Because people with dSLRs are at a "disadvantage" vs a beginner with a 2MP P&S camera in an Open challenge, because of SENSOR DUST?

Sorry, but I don't find that a compelling-enough reason to make the change.

Message edited by author 2005-07-27 16:36:11.

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

07/27/2005 04:41:08 PM · #107

I don't expect that this would ever change either. I just like to run my mouth about it periodically.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/27/2005 04:50:09 PM · #108

{comment deferred}

jessfrolio

Nikon D300

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5- 5.6G ED DX

07/27/2005 04:52:41 PM · #109

graphicfunk

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

07/27/2005 05:06:19 PM · #110

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by graphicfunk:
Really? This does not answer the question posed by John. In your explanation you combined both the open and member into one.

Originally, there were no Open and Member challenges; all challenges were open, free to registrants, and conducted according to the "Classic" rule set which is essentially the same as the current Basic rules set. It is the paid-member-only, Advanced rules challenges which are a new addition to the site, and that only after significant debate.

So, IMO, the Basic rules challenges represent exactly what the site was originally, including the purpose of those challenges. If you want to show off your post-processing skills, pay up the membership fee and enter an Advanced rules challenge, or just post images to your portfolio and print galleries.

I think it sounds greedy to want to change the rules of the Open challenges to the benefit of experienced photographers, at the expense of beginners.

Exactly why is this necessary? Because people with dSLRs are at a "disadvantage" vs a beginner with a 2MP P&S camera in an Open challenge, because of SENSOR DUST?

Sorry, but I don't find that a compelling-enough reason to make the change.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

First, I never voted one way or the other. You speak about the consternation of introducing a.e. You use the term "greedy" because folks seek a better image. If I understand the spirit correctly of DPC is first to learn. Post processing is an integral part of digital much like the darkroom was part of film.

So, following your logic then, if we were film based only labs could develop the films and prints without our innstruction. In digital, the ideal according to what you represent as the DPC spirit is the basic editing. However, there are so many contradictions here. But let us simplify and keep it with the beginners. They lose too in B.E. because B.E. allows the advance function and tinkering with the channels and the employment of advance filtering such as neat image. Surely, there is no way for anyone to advance in digital photography without the knowledge of post processing. If one is not a photographer, this is okay but if one aspires to be efficient and become a better photographer then you argue that because they are beginners they will be at a disadvantage. Well either they came here to learn and not to remain stagnant. They may as well stay out and not enter.

There is a basic miscomprehension as put forth by the editing rules. In my opinion, I have already stated the problems with the a.e. rules, they go too far and the current b.e. are too short. Methinks there is a solution to reach a comprehensive set of rules which entail the virtues of b.e. and part of a.e. This then becomes the norm and then to have a digital editing which allows more or less the freedom used now in a.e.

But no, if you are here to learn and you are a beginner you want to learn your post processing. It is a joke to separate a "digital" image from the post processing. The two are really one but we are lost with some other guiding principle.

This is simply my reflections and not meant to spark up a debate, it appears the place is locked up in liberties equal more work. With this fixed philosophy not much gets done but to hold the status quo.

Message edited by author 2005-07-27 17:08:32.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/27/2005 05:35:32 PM · #111

You speak in theory, I will have to deal with it in practice--the two are unlikely to be congruent.

There's nothing preventing anyone from postprocessing their little hearts out on any image they want, they just can't enter that version into certain challenges.

So what? There's lots of images I'd like to enter into those challenges but can't, for a variety of reasons. So what? That's the breaks sometimes.

Message edited by author 2005-07-27 17:36:02.

graphicfunk

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

07/27/2005 05:52:47 PM · #112

Originally posted by GeneralE:

===================================================================

You can rest assured that all that I wrote is regarding the subject we are discussing which is the challenge.

In one case you speak keeping the playing field level by not allowing the greedy to intervene and in the other breath you are downplaying by using the term, that's the breaks sometimes.

No, what I say is not theory. These are actual facts. What I defined is written in your instructions.

The reality is that I am thinking "sheer photography and its implementation" you are coming from the point of view of administration. Of course, administration is very important in any endeavor but it should never outshine and limit as less as possible the object which in this case is photography and learning.

kyebosh