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07/09/2005 07:31:09 PM · #1 |
Let me first introduce myself. I am really new to both dpchallenge.com and photography. My name is Joshua, I'm 24 and live in the DFW area of Texas, USA. I was introduced to this site through some co-workers that participate in challenges. I found the site helpful, intriguing and passionate about a common craft. The people that contribute to dpchallenge.com in majority are truly passionate about there job, hobbies, interest and past times. I salute anyone that is willing to pursue in discipline the betterment of themselves. I recently purchased my first digital camera, accessories and DPC account. I hardly consider myself a view of photographs and never a photographer. I am here to enjoy, increase knowledge, enjoy competition, critiques and even make friendships. It seems that one thing a lot of members are passionate about are the challenges. I also enjoy a challenge and have just entered my first one. I have voted on many photographs in previous challenges and have recieved feedback on my style of voting. This is where I need help.
We and I am a busy person and find time hard to come by when it comes to voting. The site requires we vote on 20% of all challenges before our votes count. Lets say there are 500 images in the challenge. This means we must vote on 100 images. To give a full and proper critique with explaination takes me at least 5 minutes per image. This means in a 40 hour week (the duration of most challenges) I would need 8 hours and 15 minutes dedicated to voting. This is only to meet the minimum requirement. To vote on 500 images I would need 41 hours and 35 minutes. This is impossible for me.
My method:
Fit to challenge criteria: 0/2
Contrast/Colors: 0/2
Photo Quality: 0/2
Composition: 0/2
My subjective affinity: 0/2
Score: 0/10
I do not take credit for creating this scale, but will take responsibility for using it. I am not sure who started it and I have only borrowed the idea. I do not say this to negate responsibility, but only to give credit where it is due.
I have recieved responses from many individuals that like, dislike or would like a variation of this type of comment. The one's that dislike the method usually do because of its impersonal nature. Maintaining that it does not give enough constructive reasoning behind its statement. I agree that it is impersonal and it is limited on the why. People that do like it, do because it is feedback when the majority of the time there is none. Who wants a score with nothing to support it? I personally would rather have something than nothing, but there are some that would disagree with my stance. My voting style currently is not helping me meet my second goal, which is to build relationships. I want to enhance my voting style, but I want to first get feedback from the community.
I do not want to give up the scale because it keeps me balanced, fair and accurate to my opinion. Yet, there are many other options for me to use. I could use the scale and simply not post it. I can use it in a different varation. Who knows all the possibilities, which is why I come to you. I want your opinion, I want you to vote on me and my method. Help me improve my response to you so that we are all better in the end.
Thanks to everyone that takes the time to read, respond and help me. Your time is much appreciated.
Joshua
MSN - res0m50r
AIM - res0m50r
Yahoo - res0m50r
res0m50r@comcast.net |
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07/09/2005 07:38:22 PM · #2 |
Hi Joshua, and welcome to DPC! Always nice to have a fellow Texan (and local at that) aboard!
I am so glad to see you jumping in with both feet. Your post is very thorough, and the time you put into voting is appreciated so much! I must say I like the scale you use; it makes sense to me and would be effective for many, I'm sure!
Be sure to check the Out and About thread for us North Texans regularly, because we north Texans tend to get together to shoot a few times a year and we'd love to have you along!
Thanks for your post, your insight, and your votes...they're all appreciated!!! :)
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07/09/2005 07:45:04 PM · #3 |
Laurie, thanks for the response and the kind comments. I will definitely make an appearance in the "Out and About" thread and hopefully can engage in some events with the North Texan crew.
Thanks for your reponse to my scale as well.
Take Care! |
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07/09/2005 07:48:11 PM · #4 |
Joshua,
Thanks for this open hearted talk. I, for one, do not like the scale ONLY because it is so clinical and impersonal. I prefer a simple message telling me to improve this or that or recommending something or even pointing out what's wrong. A few words is all I need.
Please do not think I am critisizing you. On the contrary when I just joined this site there was an attempt by some guys to get a scale system going. I loved it and used it, never knowing how much it bothered the other members. After a blowout I stopped using it and it dissappeared. Now I understand why.
Thanks for opening this up. I for example will not PM you because of your scale but it does cause me some discomfort.
By this answer I mean very simply this; it is your choice, your style, your effort and your right to do as you see fit. It is my duty to accept and respect your rights. But I do not have to agree or like how one exercises his/her rights.
You are welcome to PM me.
Peter |
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07/09/2005 07:53:51 PM · #5 |
Frankly, I like seeing a breakdown of the score. It helps point toward some of the deficiencies in my photos (of which there are many) and it reduces rude/unhelpful comments. Sometimes, though, a further comment may be necessary or desired.
Just try to remember that your scoring breakdown need not be the only comment you leave.
Oh! And welcome!!
Sara
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07/09/2005 07:54:22 PM · #6 |
Im always gratefull for any comments, good or bad, and you did comment on my circle pic, with your scale..
At least I know why I got a 5 from you, lol.
In the same breathe it only takes a few more seconds to add a comment, rather than just your scale.. I'm not gonna do the math on your typing speed versus 500 entries, versus the length of your post comment after your scale, but I imagine it wouldnt take that much longer... |
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07/09/2005 07:57:46 PM · #7 |
| I don't have any personal problems at all with your scale. I don't use something like this because I find that the 0/2 marks are overly harsh for what I think. I think if you broke your marking into subheadings you might find your marks received better..as it is unlikely anyone sould see a 0/5. I have been in the position of evaluating the arts for years, and it is always difficult for people to see a mark attached to criticism. My suggestions are only to ease the concerns of many..I don't use this system (I am a gut voter..imperfect but for me very accurate..ie I agree with my votes). I got a mark from you and didn't mind your system in the least.. |
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07/09/2005 07:58:56 PM · #8 |
Joshua,
You aren't going to please all the people all of the time. In the next few weeks take a second look at your voting style and the responses you get and make changes where you see fit. Maybe you will change something maybe you won't. The important thing is that you are taking time to vote and make comments and thanks for that. Also check here for some other ideas.
Oh by the way...Welcome to DPC
I borrowed, ah copied, Ok stole THIS from cpickett, I don't think this should bring up my profile. Please let me know if it does and I will break the link. Don't know how it could. I have modified it some and will continue to do so. By the way it hates IE.
Message edited by author 2005-07-09 20:07:31.
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07/09/2005 08:00:26 PM · #9 |
Hello Joshua,
Welcome to DPC, I just recently started using a similar scale to the one you mention, but I also try to add to it. This is an example from the metal challenge:
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Fits challenge= 5
Color/lighting=0
DOF/focus=1
Wow factor/uniqueness=
Attractiveness=1
Colors seem a little muted but it appears you may have been looking into fog too, wonder if a curve adjustment would help any. I like the straight down the tracks and out the tunnel perspective you got.
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This does however create a problem with how many I get voted on. While I'm sure everyone would like more time to comment, sometimes it just isn't possible. Then when you do take the time to comment truthfully you are shot down for YOUR opinion. This is life here at DPC and cannot be avoided. Someone will always find something wrong with the way you are doing something, if you are being truthful and honest than don't worry about it and continue on. Good luck.
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07/09/2005 08:16:11 PM · #10 |
Welcome Joshua
I have received a vote from you and have been very happy with your method. This method also gives the recipient some idea on how the viewer see's the photo.
Message edited by author 2005-07-09 20:49:14. |
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07/09/2005 08:18:28 PM · #11 |
I also use a scale in my evaluations, I just do not show it.Here it is;
Topic:
missed the point =1
low relevance =2
good understanding =3
Photo Quality:
snapshot/some effort =1
wall quality =2
magazine quality =3
real art =4
Aestetics:
no appeal/little appeal=0
good =1
teaching me =2
Awe! =3
On my second round I will CHECK my pics and bump up/down based on this scale:
10 outstanding
9 excellent
8 very, very good
7 quite good
6 more than sufficient
5 average
4 just below average
3 below average
2 bad
1 terrible.
Again, as you see, the difference lies in personal choice and personality, meaning it is impossible to please all members at all times. As long as you are comfortable... we have to respect that.
(edited for spacing... twice ;-0)
Message edited by author 2005-07-09 20:21:06. |
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07/09/2005 08:28:51 PM · #12 |
Thanks to everyone for the response. I am sure this is a topic that is discussed a lot around the site. Its interesting because I deal with this same issue in the poetry sites I am a member. Critiquing art is always subjective and usually we put ourselves into our work. It can be hard to hear opinions, but it in the same instance be very fulfilling. Arts are ment to be experienced and yes I agree that playing an instrument, painting a picture, writing poetry, taking a photograph and expressing ourselves is a very personal experience.
When I play my trumpet, write my poetry and now take pictures I am totally consumed by the event. It takes a lot for me to release my mind from the responsibilities I build around me. When I do these things it is a wonderful thing and I am totally doing just these things. My mind is at ease and my spirit at peace. Yet, all of these things are great, but with out an audience to hear my trumpet, people to read my poetry and see my pictures I find the longevity of my crafts to be in diminishing returns. I will always do these things for myself and what I get out of it. Yet, I will also always look for feedback from the peers of our lives because it provides a different kind of meaning and a different kind of purpose.
I understand the importance of our arts and crafts. lol, sorry just went on a rant. Hmmm where was I going with this... oh yes, I am not looking for a perfect solution. It is impossible to please everyone and I am just not into pleasing people. My goal is to be fair, balanced, accurate and most importantly constructive. I want to do this is a way that can always be supported with solid justification. I believe by having a scale I show my subjectivity in a solid form. I do think I will need to change, but I believe it will be an enhancement. Again, thanks to everyone that has posted so far, your thoughts and comments fall on listening ears.
Thanks,
Joshua |
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07/09/2005 08:34:27 PM · #13 |
Personally I am happy for the reviewer to have taken the time to make a considered evaluation of the picture before voting on it - whichever method they use. Any feedback they give me is greatly appreciated.
The various scales sound like a good tool to use to filter out the good from the not so good. I like the idea of revisiting the top 20 in my votes at the end and re-ranking them. I don't believe I could get through the full list twice.
Chris |
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07/10/2005 09:13:35 AM · #14 |
Welcome to the site, Joshua! I joined in January and found this site to be addictive, educational, and fun...the scale you use, if it's right for you, seems ok to me..I kind of like seeing the different categories you set up: it breaks down your critique nicely...there is much to be learned here in the forums, tutorials and just chatting with all the photographers and getting their input; there are many fun, knowledgeable and considerate people here who will help you grow in numerous ways, not just your photo skills, either...enjoy!
Message edited by author 2005-07-10 09:14:23. |
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07/10/2005 09:38:48 AM · #15 |
joshua, welcome to DPC. There is a lifetime of learning available here at DPC. I have gotten a comment from you and i think its a great way to break down your vote. I do have one question...what is "My subjective affinity". I too am new to DPC(registered-april 15 became member-june 22) and i am also a "new photographer". still learning all the photo slang ;)
I just have a bit of advice for you about recieving comments. take them with a grain of salt and keep in mind that it is just an opinion. Good luck in the challenges. ~~Cher~~
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07/10/2005 09:50:07 AM · #16 |
I like this discussion as I'm new here with no entries yet and no votes yet. I do like the idea of a scale, but applied loosly. So I don't go for the point system, but do find it useful to consider some of the dimensions. The quick list I put together would be
Topic
Composition - does it work for the image? Violate the rules when it works.
Image Quaity - focus, sharpness, etc
Originality - I think I'd give some one a boost in their score for a great idea.
I may add others later, but too may formal criterion spoils the results. - at least for me. |
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07/10/2005 09:58:58 AM · #17 |
I am also new to the world of photography, I received one of your comments and it left me clueless. Sorry but I have no idea what it means and how (if it does) it tells me what I need to do to improve.
I think most people have a method for voting but just don't post it. Personally I vote using my method and then later if I can I go back and explain what made me give the score usually only one sentence straight to the point.
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