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06/29/2005 09:38:36 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by macrothing:
... This is not 'work'. |
I like that notion.
Sorry to pick out such a small portion of your post macro.
But in a way, it sums up my feeling about all the complaints, and bad ideas, that seem to come out of the woodwork whenever there is a challenge with a high number of entries, like 400+.
This is not work. And nobody is going to get fired if they don't vote on all the entries in all the challenges. Some of us have more time to put into voting and commenting than others do. And it is a faster process for those lucky enough to have a high speed internet connection. But as the site grows, some people who have been accustomed to voting on all in the past are going to find it increasingly difficult to do so. That is an unfortunate circumstance for the individuals involved. However, IMHO, it is not a reason to make changes to dpc. The present set-up of the challenges, and the site, is successful by any measure. And their will always be a certain amount of turnover among it's participants.
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06/29/2005 09:42:49 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Couldn't you look at this concept as improving the use of a tool, your camera? |
AMEN
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06/29/2005 09:47:55 PM · #28 |
VERY GOOD IDEA. no pp at all. How about no resizing/rotate at all too? Would be fun. Direct from camera, straight to dpchallenge. adjust the size and rotation within the camera. adjust your resolution within the camera! this reminds me so much of the days of film-photography :)
GO ahead with it! a 48 hours challenge! |
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06/29/2005 10:25:55 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by shadow:
VERY GOOD IDEA. no pp at all. How about no resizing/rotate at all too? Would be fun. Direct from camera, straight to dpchallenge. adjust the size and rotation within the camera. adjust your resolution within the camera! this reminds me so much of the days of film-photography :)
GO ahead with it! a 48 hours challenge! |
You must have been shooting slides. Print processing always had adjustments made in the lab.
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06/29/2005 10:31:25 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
You must have been shooting slides. Print processing always had adjustments made in the lab. |
Oh I'm sorry for being such a noob. I never owned a photo lab or been able to process my own photos in a darkroom or anything. naive naive. all i know is that i shoot my film camera in the old days and pray for the best, lol. ok, so what are you suggesting then? |
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06/29/2005 10:43:45 PM · #31 |
Personally, I would welcome a no-edit challenge. Restrict it to DSLRs, or to non-DSLRs, makes no difference. I have taken photos that I think are acceptable with both. Afterall, all of your competition will be working under the same restrictions. So what if all the entries are not perfect, or not even as good as we normally see in a challenge. It would help people to learn to use their cameras better, and to lessen their dependance on pp.
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06/29/2005 10:47:06 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by shadow:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
You must have been shooting slides. Print processing always had adjustments made in the lab. |
Oh I'm sorry for being such a noob. I never owned a photo lab or been able to process my own photos in a darkroom or anything. naive naive. all i know is that i shoot my film camera in the old days and pray for the best, lol. ok, so what are you suggesting then? |
The photo lab at the corner store then. It doesn't matter. Whoever was processing the negatives through the machine makes adjustments based on what they think the right exposure should be, right colours etc. It's very similar to what can be done with curves, levels etc.
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06/29/2005 10:49:27 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
The photo lab at the corner store then. It doesn't matter. Whoever was processing the negatives through the machine makes adjustments based on what they think the right exposure should be, right colours etc. It's very similar to what can be done with curves, levels etc. |
OK, lets rephrase that sentence i posted, so as to avoid misinterpretations any further. take a photo and submit it as you would with a polaroid instant camera :) |
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06/29/2005 10:52:14 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by shadow:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
The photo lab at the corner store then. It doesn't matter. Whoever was processing the negatives through the machine makes adjustments based on what they think the right exposure should be, right colours etc. It's very similar to what can be done with curves, levels etc. |
OK, lets rephrase that sentence i posted, so as to avoid misinterpretations any further. take a photo and submit it as you would with a polaroid instant camera :) |
;oP
PS. I wasn't trying to debunk the suggestion, just throwing out a little info related to print film processing.
Message edited by author 2005-06-29 22:54:48.
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06/30/2005 11:05:27 AM · #35 |
All from beginning processing have been done in photographic, in the old days it was done in dark room, to day it is done in Photoshop and similar software, suggestion of taken picture striate from disc in camera is like, not using toilet paper after being at the toilet, but processing challenge can be limited whit what can be done in the old dark room.
Cameras at different branch have so different future and I have not seen yet publish digital picture from expert whit out at least small processing. after all we like to have our picture as good as possible is it ?
Icerock |
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06/30/2005 11:16:09 AM · #36 |
A no-editing challenge has been suggested numerous times before, and always with the same reaction.
I don't see why everyone is so vehemently against it. Yes, most images have post-processing. How does that stop us having a bit of fun with just the camera?
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06/30/2005 11:31:23 AM · #37 |
Call me contrarian but I don't resonate with the straight-from-the-camera idea much. I can see an advantage that we wouldn't get so many highly stylized and post processed images. And that could level the playing field somewhat.
But I fear we would get many just snaps. Mostly, today's digital camera images need some post processing to look appealing. I'm pretty sure I don't want to look at and vote on a bunch of photos wishing the photographer had only straightened the horizon, or sharpened the image, or boosted the contrast a bit, or leveled an otherwise too light or too dark photo.
Seriously, I am not sure what problem we are trying to solve. Too few challenges? To many photos in a challenge? Uneven skills in Photoshop? Unrealistic competition between experienced and inexperienced photographers?
I don't know, but I doubt that straight-from-the-camera will solve it.
Maybe to try it out, someone will submit a straight-from-the-camera image in a forum post. This informal challenge would let us see what the 1st fifty posts look like. Then maybe the interest in and value of the idea will reveal itself.
Message edited by author 2005-06-30 11:33:03. |
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06/30/2005 11:38:58 AM · #38 |
We actually had a 'no editing' challenge about two years ago - The Past, which you may want to have a look over. I'm all for the occasional 'no editing' challenges, just for the fun of it :o)
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06/30/2005 08:19:52 PM · #39 |
I will pre-empt this with; these are not site-inclusive suggestions or comments, they only relate to a possible new/third Challenge. Admittedly they delve into 'photography' too, but it is in context and I am but a mere 'novice' and 'admirer'.
Thank you very much for posting the previous Challenge; 'The Past'. I have had a brief rummage through those entries and have pulled out 3 at random (yes including the winner). This IS what I for one was referring to. Take a look at some of the comments made also, as they are telling.
link
link
link
Does 'it' not all start with the 'photographer's eye' ? Does it not then go to 'tools' such as THE CAMERA, lenses and filters? These days with digital, even the 'entry level' cameras offer in-camera effects and 'pp' ability. To me, these are *tools*.
I was also compelled to go 'find' some early photographs (including the reported 'first' (see below)) to 'illustrate' what I am trying to convey here. I will not go into ramblings of what a photograph 'can do'; ie 'tell a story', 'capture a moment', etc. These are 'givens', but I do think it is lost on some, and the line between 'photography' and 'digital manipulation' is being watered down. Then there is 'digital art' which is a different 'art' (and conversation) again, in my opinion.
The 'First Photograph' circa 1826 (note the link on the image goes to a host only, click the below text link for further info);
A little 'history' for those interested thanks to Wikipedia
The above link is 'The History of Photography' thanks to Wikipedia. There you will find the original of the above image. There is also a Timeline of Photography that some may find interesting. A note on the 'Timeline'; interestingly, Wikipedia does not mention the digital camera in their timeline. There is however, a whole other page devoted to digitals which is linked from the main photography page. Does this tell 'us' something? Maybe only that as a 'live' online encyclopedia, they just haven't included it yet. Maybe it says something else? Perhaps current use of digital photography will historically show (in years to come) if it is of the same 'vein' or not, or has branched out into a world of its own. Time will tell. My view, obviously, is that it (digital) is simply an extension on the original concept. The 'viewfinder' is the key.
For those interested in viewing early photographs that I hazard to guess had no or little 'pp';
Masterworks from the History of Photography - An Exhibit from The American Museum
There are many more I could/would have inserted here, you can find them yourself if you are interested. I am satisfied I have made my point with the included.
Very simply, I know that there are 'pp' tools available, including the 'modern' computerised ones (aka programs), but it all starts with a good photograph. The tools simply 'enhance' aspects of it. This can be done at the time of shooting with additional lenses (if you are fortunate enough to have a SLR ":)") but most importantly, it is done by trying to capture what YOUR eyes see, into a 'frame', as best you can with your camera.
I just thought that;
a.....an additional Challenge per week for 'keen moods' would be good and;
b.....as a suggestion for the Challenge, an 'unedited' one would provide a 'raw' aspect.
That's all.
ps: if I have infringed any copyrights or broken any 'rules' with the insertion of the above photographs let me know and I will edit this post (if someone does not beat me to it).
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06/30/2005 08:51:20 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by IceRock:
Normally when I see suggestion like this I think to my self this is a beginner !
"sorry did i think out loud !"
Icerock
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Pardon me? What makes you such an accomplished photographer? Perhaps you should have 'thought' your comment through, and before shooting your mouth off I'd like you to consider WHY a no post-processing challenge could be worthwhile.
I'm well aware of the fact that post-processing has always been a part of photography. I just happen to think the occasional no-editing challenge would be fun once in a while.
A good photographer creates good photos, upon which he or she can work in the post-processing process. The success of an image relies on the original and I was hoping that by having a "no-PP" contest we could effectively gauge the ability of the photographer to prepare an image FOR said post-processing.
I think the nay-sayers should think about it THAT way as opposed to throwing up their hands and screaming, "oh, but photography has always been that way!"
Alex
EDIT: In this post I'm commenting purely on the merits, and not the logistics, of having such a challenge.
Message edited by author 2005-06-30 20:55:58.
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06/30/2005 09:21:03 PM · #41 |
okay im sold lets have a no editing 24hr or 48hr challenge... only editing allowed would be resize, no usm, no highpass, no crop, etc.
Hopefully with the challenge we can kill this discussion at least for a few months and get back to more interesting conversation.
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06/30/2005 09:34:13 PM · #42 |
I just thought it would be a fun little idea. Something different, perhaps? If only for purely experimental purposes. The condescension merely fuelled my desire to realize this as I think the apparent disdain towards the idea stems from an deep-seated misunderstanding of the purpose of such a challenge, and the falure of previous arguments for said challenge that, in the past, have concentrated on the wrong reasons.
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06/30/2005 10:04:08 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by AlexMonty:
Originally posted by IceRock:
Normally when I see suggestion like this I think to my self this is a beginner !
"sorry did i think out loud !"
Icerock
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Pardon me? What makes you such an accomplished photographer? |
He's from Iceland and he has L glass? ;)
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07/01/2005 10:03:27 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
He's from Iceland and he has L glass? ;) |
Damn it! You're right! I should have thought before I spoke ;)
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07/01/2005 10:31:57 AM · #45 |
The winner in such a challenge would likely be the one who has a camera with the most "in-camera" options and understands and uses those internal features the best. So it seems that this sort of challenge would relegate "editing" to the skilled use of features incorporated in the camera.
...works for me. |
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