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06/13/2005 11:43:38 PM · #1 |
When I run the save for web option on my .tif file, I lose a lot of the color or tint on my image. I'm attaching a side b side screen shot of the tiff and the "Save for web..." version. I want to save for web, but I don't want to lose the nice colors.
How do I do this right? (I'm sure the colors can be displayed on the web, since the .tif has more colors visible in this screen shot.)
.tif is on the LEFT
Message edited by author 2005-06-13 23:44:06. |
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06/13/2005 11:52:01 PM · #2 |
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06/13/2005 11:53:32 PM · #3 |
| I suck at photoshop. What's that? |
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06/14/2005 12:05:34 AM · #4 |
Your color space is all the available colors. There are different color spaces. For the web you generally use the sRGB color space. Often times you'll shoot in the Adobe RGB color space. When you take a photo in the Adobe color space and view it in an application that assumes sRGB the colors will look flatter and dull. If you go into help in Photoshop it will give you more information on how to set up color management. If I remember correctly this topic was also covered in a tutorial somewhere under the learn link in the upper right.
EDIT: I should have added that if you're photographing in the Adobe color space you can convert to sRGB by going into the menu: Image, Mode, Convert to Profile and selecting the sRGB color space. You should however go into help and do a search for "Understanding color space and gamut". It's full of interesting information.
Message edited by author 2005-06-14 00:11:49. |
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06/14/2005 12:30:19 AM · #5 |
save for web = evil
edit the image to your liking, resize the image to the image dimentions you want, apply your sharpen or USM filter, then do a file save as (alter the file name to retain the original file name so you wont lose track of the original for later use) and use the quality slider/option to get the file size you want (ie 150k).
Thats the way I have been doing it for years for images on my web site or ones I just want to email around.
James
Message edited by author 2005-06-14 00:31:35. |
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06/14/2005 12:46:43 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by jab119:
...then do a file save as (alter the file name to retain the original file name so you wont lose track of the original for later use) and use the quality slider/option to get the file size you want (ie 150k). |
This works, yes, but...I only use Save for Web for things that go on here (challenges)...the reason I use it...strips out the metadata that is not needed.
You can do your whole workflow in AdobeRGB (or whatever you prefer), set it to the size you want, then convert the profile to sRGB (then any other small tweaks as needed), before using Save for Web. I have never confirmed, but I remember reading that you will be able to have the "quality slider" higher than on a Save As (because of the stripping of metadata).
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06/14/2005 01:31:48 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
I have never confirmed, but I remember reading that you will be able to have the "quality slider" higher than on a Save As (because of the stripping of metadata). |
If you use Save As Copy you will have the option to "exclude non-image data" which does the same thing. People with older versions of Photoshop don't have the Save For Web option ... |
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06/14/2005 06:58:20 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by jab119:
save for web = evil |
That is a bad attitude to have, especially when giving advice for DPC, where optimizing every byte available is paramount.
What is evil is using "Save As..." instead of "Save For Web..." 
Why? Because when you use "Save For Web", all sorts of extraneous "junk" is removed from the final JPEG, maximizing the amount of data dedicated to the image instead of superfluous non-visual info. In addition, SFW has a finer-grained quality slider, allowing you to get as close as you can to the 150KB DPC limit. (Actually, the "Optimize to File Size" option is best for that.)
Anyway... conduct your own test to prove it to yourself. To really see the difference, use a thumbnail-sized picture. Take a picture and use "Image Size" to reduce it to a 64-pixel thumbnail. Then save it both ways and look at the resulting file sizes. I just re-conducted this test, and the thumbnail created using "Save As" (slider set to 8) was 27.5 KB. The one created with "Save For Web" (quality set to 80) was 4.2 KB. Over 6 times smaller! Visually, there is no difference between the two. But the "Save As..." version has all kinds of extra stuff added to it by Photoshop, including color profiles (which are ignored by the "big" web browsers), EXIF data, Adobe XMP data, etc. etc.
Because people don't understand the benefits of "Save For Web", I wrote a tutorial a while ago that showed how to prepare your challenge entries to get the "most bang for your bytes". It also addresses the need to convert your image to the sRGB color space, because that is the assumed color space for images in web browsers.
Message edited by author 2005-06-14 07:11:24. |
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06/14/2005 07:17:48 AM · #9 |
| for web - convert the profile to sRGB, that will keep the image as you see it in photoshop. |
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06/14/2005 09:45:33 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by EddyG:
What is evil is using "Save As..." instead of "Save For Web..."
Why? Because when you use "Save For Web", all sorts of extraneous "junk" is removed from the final JPEG, maximizing the amount of data dedicated to the image instead of superfluous non-visual info. |
See my previous note about Save As Copy. |
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06/14/2005 09:49:32 AM · #11 |
| I find that if I change my color mode to Lab Color (Image -> Mode -> Lab Color), I lose less color when I use Save For Web. That's generally my last editing step. |
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06/14/2005 09:56:17 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
See my previous note about Save As Copy. |
Newer versions of Photoshop do not have a "Save As Copy" menu option. There is an "As a copy" checkbox in the "Save As" dialog, but it does not offer an "exclude non-image data" option. I think once "Save For Web" was implemented, the "exclude" option disappeared...
Originally posted by waterlilies:
I find that if I change my color mode to Lab Color (Image -> Mode -> Lab Color), I lose less color when I use Save For Web. |
Using "Save For Web" does not result in any sort of color loss. (Unless of course you have SFW set to save in one of the indexed-color image formats, like GIF or PNG-8.)
Message edited by author 2005-06-14 10:02:36.
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06/14/2005 12:34:20 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by EddyG:
Using "Save For Web" does not result in any sort of color loss. (Unless of course you have SFW set to save in one of the indexed-color image formats, like GIF or PNG-8.) |
Nope, I'm saving as jpeg. The colors look less washed out when I change my mode to lab color than they often do when I save for web otherwise. It's a pretty noticeable difference, at least to my eye. |
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06/14/2005 01:32:51 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by waterlilies:
Nope, I'm saving as jpeg. The colors look less washed out when I change my mode to lab color than they often do when I save for web otherwise. It's a pretty noticeable difference, at least to my eye. |
Well the definitive explanation is that when you switch to Lab color mode, you have now switched to a mode that does not even support the notion of color profiles! Next time you are in Lab mode, see if you can assign a color profile to your document -- you can't. Lab color mode is just assumed to be a "universally understood color space". Therefore, it is not color-managed at all. So a reasonable explanation would be that you are working with images in the AdobeRGB color space and are not properly converting them to the sRGB color space before going to Save For Web -- something which switching to Lab mode sort-of sidesteps by converting to this "universally understood color space". Since SFW doesn't support Lab mode, it is forced to convert your image to sRGB on-the-fly.
In regards to using Lab mode, according to Martin Evening, author of Adobe Photoshop CS2 For Photographers, "You could make this work, so long as you didn't actually do anything to edit the image while it was in Lab. But overall, I would not really advise it. In fact, these days I see little reason to use the Lab color mode for anything in Photoshop. I know some people like to sharpen in Lab mode, but a luminosity fade is a much better method."
Message edited by author 2005-06-14 13:41:07.
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