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06/08/2005 10:12:36 AM · #51 |
Originally posted by kpriest:
Ok - for six months, I've seen endless threads complaining about people giving 1s on arguably decent images. Do you ever look at the bottom of the barrell and notice that so many people give 10s to ridiculous entries such as this: |
Personally, I think that starting a thread to trash one person̢۪s photographic efforts the way you have shows very poor taste. Can you imagine what this place would be like if everyone did that?
Whether you like charliebaker̢۪s photo or not, at least he entered one. You assume that he entered it as a joke, and that he spent no time or effort creating his entry. Who cares how long any photo took to create? It̢۪s the result that counts.
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06/08/2005 10:23:01 AM · #52 |
I think there may have been other similar posts, but more along the lines of 'Brown Ribbon Chasers', etc... I know there have been many posts about voting methods (1's vs 10's). The only negative observation I have to this thread is it may have been more at home in the 'Rant' section.
Hey Ken - When's the next 'Enquirer'? Lot's of material I'm thinking. ;^)
Originally posted by micknewton:
Originally posted by kpriest:
Ok - for six months, I've seen endless threads complaining about people giving 1s on arguably decent images. Do you ever look at the bottom of the barrell and notice that so many people give 10s to ridiculous entries such as this: |
Personally, I think that starting a thread to trash one person̢۪s photographic efforts the way you have shows very poor taste. Can you imagine what this place would be like if everyone did that?
Whether you like charliebaker̢۪s photo or not, at least he entered one. You assume that he entered it as a joke, and that he spent no time or effort creating his entry. Who cares how long any photo took to create? It̢۪s the result that counts. |
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06/08/2005 10:49:49 AM · #53 |
Hope not too late to post in the forum, I gave 1 to this entry.
In my opnion this site is to shoot creative things on the theme an show excellence in photography and to shoot dummy things, with creative mind but no creativity in the photography.
such photos should be discourage as it distracts the mind from the art of creative photography.
I was very much dissapointed with the ratings in the Decision theme. Photos which deserves good rating were found in the last ranking, and those who doesn't got good rating.
Those who gets affected with my view, I apolozige.
Originally posted by kpriest:
Ok - for six months, I've seen endless threads complaining about people giving 1s on arguably decent images. Do you ever look at the bottom of the barrell and notice that so many people give 10s to ridiculous entries such as this:
No offense to anyone necessarily, but people who do things like "LOL - it looks like total crap and doesn't meet the challenge - I just have to give it a 10!" (hypothetical, but very close to some real comments). Am I the only one that thinks this pollutes the whole system and encourages people to enter stuff like that? You can go on and on about how it is a legitimate interpretation, bla, bla, bla. I was really surprised at some of the names I saw on those comments on this and other bad entries.
Even if you don't care about people giving out "pity points" - think about how much time is wasted by voters trying to assess whether it is legit or a mistake, or what - adjusting their monitors, etc., then typing up some thoughtful comments as if the person didn't enter it as a joke. Compare that amount of collective time to the 2 seconds of thoughtlessness it took to post some blank jpg. I try to vote on all images and since there is no "skip" ot "ignore" button, I can't pass over these things without them popping back up all the time.
Feel free to move this to the rant forum if it sounds like I am ranting - cuz, well, I am dammit. :(
I anxiously await the defenders of this crap... |
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06/08/2005 02:25:06 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by neophyte:
I only pay attention to the positive votes. 30 people may give me a 1 but if one person likes it enough to give me a 9 or 10 and I've provoked comments, its a good day. I watched my step daughter snap a photo without looking, enter it and beat every one of my scores so I can't take it too seriously. I also realize that I'm not going to have a high scorer/comment generator every time. Your work is good, stick around.... |
That is a good way to look at things but when I put time and effort into something a someone gives it a 1? I am not going anywhere. I keep telling myself I am no longer going to enter the open challenges and this is a good reason to start doing as I say no more open challenges for me and I am taking a break from the member challenges. No more entries unless something I shoot just blows me away.
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06/08/2005 05:14:18 PM · #55 |
Nah, no protest here. I really liked the photographs I took on my niagara trip, but wasnt able to enter one in beauty challenge as I didnt carry my laptop.
I tried to submit it anyway into the decisions challenge, as I figured there are quite a few people around who are liberal with 'meeting the challenge'. However, just a few hours of voting proved me wrong. Instead of watching it tank the whole week, I figured why not use the 1-in-25 wildcard and withdraw it. That let me post it in the forums earlier.
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Nitin - Is that why you had your image pulled by request? In protest perhaps? Just curious...
Originally posted by vfwlkr:
Bah, it was much better than many of the entries in the challenge. |
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06/08/2005 05:51:07 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by rex:
That is a good way to look at things but when I put time and effort into something a someone gives it a 1? |
It's a shame to so many of us (including myself at times) confuse critizism of our "art" with critizism about ourselves. If someone looks at one of your images and says "man, this is ugly" it's easy to take this as a value judgement of you as an "artist", or your capabilities, or the amount of effort you put in, but what it really means is "I personally don't like this image, in this very moment in time" - that's all.
And besides, truly not to imply anything, but only as a thought provoker - Do you really need other people's positive opinions in order to feel good about what you have done? I doubt it. We create our "art" first and foremost for ourselves, don't we? The whole voting thing is just supposed to be a fun way to be challenged, and not complacently think that we have already reached perfection. Plus, what really does it mean for someome to be ribboned here? While it is certainly nice to get a nod from the community, let's face it, it won't change how successful you are in life - you won't get rich over night, you won't get promoted at your job instantaneously, and it won't determine how much your family loves you, or great of a person people think you are.
On the flip side, if you constantly give yourself grief over what other people think about what you spend your time on, and what you personally liked or disliked, I suspect you're not going to have a very happy life. So relax, enjoy this fantastic hobby (addiction?), and when you take a shot you like, smile, and be happy that for one brief instance you did something extraordinary - you managed to express something that just moments ago only existed in your mind.
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06/08/2005 07:48:07 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by ParadigmShift:
Originally posted by rex:
That is a good way to look at things but when I put time and effort into something a someone gives it a 1? |
It's a shame to so many of us (including myself at times) confuse critizism of our "art" with critizism about ourselves. ..... Do you really need other people's positive opinions in order to feel good about what you have done? ... We create our "art" first and foremost for ourselves, don't we? .....if you constantly give yourself grief over what other people think about what you spend your time on ... I suspect you're not going to have a very happy life. |
I'll shout an amen to that! Besides, if you don̢۪t think a great many people with cameras are ignorant to some degree about photography; just try counting how many little flashes go off in the stands of a nighttime football game.
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06/08/2005 07:57:43 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by RonBeam:
I'll shout an amen to that! Besides, if you don̢۪t think a great many people with cameras are ignorant to some degree about photography; just try counting how many little flashes go off in the stands of a nighttime football game. |
I thought I was the only one completely amused by that! :)
d
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06/08/2005 08:08:44 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by ParadigmShift:
It's a shame to so many of us (including myself at times) confuse critizism of our "art" with critizism about ourselves. ..... Do you really need other people's positive opinions in order to feel good about what you have done? ... We create our "art" first and foremost for ourselves, don't we? .....if you constantly give yourself grief over what other people think about what you spend your time on ... I suspect you're not going to have a very happy life. |
[/quote]
Great words Emanuel. Thanks or the inspiration.
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06/08/2005 08:29:52 PM · #60 |
lol i would hate to be the ones who get voted lower than that blank picture
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06/08/2005 09:17:33 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by vfwlkr:
Nah, no protest here. I really liked the photographs I took on my niagara trip, but wasnt able to enter one in beauty challenge as I didnt carry my laptop.
I tried to submit it anyway into the decisions challenge, as I figured there are quite a few people around who are liberal with 'meeting the challenge'. However, just a few hours of voting proved me wrong. Instead of watching it tank the whole week, I figured why not use the 1-in-25 wildcard and withdraw it. That let me post it in the forums earlier.
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Nitin - Is that why you had your image pulled by request? In protest perhaps? Just curious...
Originally posted by vfwlkr:
Bah, it was much better than many of the entries in the challenge. |
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You just needed a person in a canoe ready to go over the top and you would have had the same theme as half the other images! :-0
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06/09/2005 12:34:47 AM · #62 |
I confess. An all white square seems silly, funny, and absurd as a piece of "art". Chalk up the entry to an odd sense of humor.
I appreciate your comments and the wrestling match in this lenthy thread/forum. Props to Kpriest for his passion for quality photography and desire to maintain the integrity of DPC.
I actually wasn't thinking about fecal material when I shot the photo. Odd as it may sound to many, I created "undecided" with photographic/artistic intention. But is it art? Is it worth entering DPC? Does such a photo bring down the quality of this toocool website? I doubt it.
If you have any interest in the creative process which produced such an oddity, read on.
Is this art? Is it a digital photo?
The photo was shot in my home studio with a white melamine board, bright lighting and a digital camera on a tripod. I insisted on "taking a digital photo", not just slapping out an image in P/S. All I did in P/S was square crop, bump up the brightness a bit and resized for web.
I cracks me up that someone turned the photo in for validation. That red letter validation sentence added a whole juicy extra layer on the question of "what is art?".
So, is an all white canvas/photo art? Ask Yasmina Reza who wrote the hilarious comedy titled "Art", winner of the 1998 Tony Award for "Best Play". I watched this 90 minute wonder a few months ago at the Coaster Theater, in Cannon Beach, Oregon, listening to three men argue, rant, wrestle & yell, and finally come to terms with the issue of "what is art?" Reza, the playwright, creates a theatrical setting in which one man buys a $60,000 4X4foot square all white piece of modern art, spinning two other friends into the hyperventilating frenzy which offered the audience the joy of comic theater.
What is art? What is digital photography? What "meets the challenge"? A simple question with no obvious answer. That mystery and wonder is part of the genius of this website, bringing together an international diverse community of folks who weekly have the pleasure of wrestling with such creative questions.
Meet you in the next challenge!
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06/09/2005 01:17:26 AM · #63 |
Originally posted by kpriest:
Whatever. I'm taking my photos down and leaving forever. |
You really freaked me out with this, lol.
I stand behind my 10 vote as well (and sorry to have offended anyone), partially vote that because I thought it was hilarious, and made people think about it (probably more then some of the other images in the challenge). It also connected to me because of the play mentioned below, and the question of art. But also my dad (yes, charliebaker) wanted this image to score as low as possible when he entered it (so of course, I gave him a ten ), unfortunatly I didn't make the 20%, so my 10 didn't count with the 16 others.
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06/09/2005 03:11:43 AM · #64 |
Originally posted by muckpond:
HEY KEN!
who peed in your wheaties? |
Well, I don't know who it was, but obviously someone did...
Oh well. As I said - just venting about it. I've been over it since late last night. Moving on.
Originally posted by charliebaker:
The photo was shot in my home studio with a white melamine board, bright lighting and a digital camera on a tripod. |
Well, glad to hear you put some effort into it. ;-) I was really targeting the voters here more than the submitter anyway.
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Hey Ken - When's the next 'Enquirer'? Lot's of material I'm thinking. |
Probably in the next week or so. I started keeping post-its in a DPC file when ideas came up - it is packed! No shortage of satirical fodder here. :)
----------------------------
You can all go back to your homes now. There'll be no village burning in this thread.
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06/09/2005 03:14:03 AM · #65 |
Lol:))
Whoever peed in your wheaties needs a doctor and NOW!! |
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06/09/2005 04:32:03 AM · #66 |
Originally posted by amber:
Whoever peed in your wheaties needs a doctor and NOW!! |
Really?? It did burn when I shot that pic... :P
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06/09/2005 05:27:24 AM · #67 |
for my 2c I have come to the conclusion that 1/2 voting is a waste, I simply disregard all entries that I consider so. Rarely do I vote below a six.
normally I start looking for the gems and voting 10s, however my 10s may not be yours as we all see the sme image differently.
a 10 for me might not be technically or photographicly perfect but it is the creative element I look for first.
I then rate 9,8,7, etc |
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06/09/2005 05:33:31 AM · #68 |
Originally posted by kiwinick:
for my 2c I have come to the conclusion that 1/2 voting is a waste, I simply disregard all entries that I consider so. Rarely do I vote below a six.
normally I start looking for the gems and voting 10s, however my 10s may not be yours as we all see the sme image differently.
a 10 for me might not be technically or photographicly perfect but it is the creative element I look for first.
I then rate 9,8,7, etc |
This brings up an interesting point - what it sounds like you are doing is cherry picking the images to vote on and passing on the others. Is that correct? I'm not sure if that's a bad thing or not, but I believe some folks do.
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06/09/2005 07:02:42 AM · #69 |
Originally posted by charliebaker:
I confess. An all white square seems silly, funny, and absurd as a piece of "art". Chalk up the entry to an odd sense of humor.
I appreciate your comments and the wrestling match in this lenthy thread/forum. Props to Kpriest for his passion for quality photography and desire to maintain the integrity of DPC.
I actually wasn't thinking about fecal material when I shot the photo. Odd as it may sound to many, I created "undecided" with photographic/artistic intention. But is it art? Is it worth entering DPC? Does such a photo bring down the quality of this toocool website? I doubt it.
If you have any interest in the creative process which produced such an oddity, read on.
Is this art? Is it a digital photo?
The photo was shot in my home studio with a white melamine board, bright lighting and a digital camera on a tripod. I insisted on "taking a digital photo", not just slapping out an image in P/S. All I did in P/S was square crop, bump up the brightness a bit and resized for web.
I cracks me up that someone turned the photo in for validation. That red letter validation sentence added a whole juicy extra layer on the question of "what is art?".
So, is an all white canvas/photo art? Ask Yasmina Reza who wrote the hilarious comedy titled "Art", winner of the 1998 Tony Award for "Best Play". I watched this 90 minute wonder a few months ago at the Coaster Theater, in Cannon Beach, Oregon, listening to three men argue, rant, wrestle & yell, and finally come to terms with the issue of "what is art?" Reza, the playwright, creates a theatrical setting in which one man buys a $60,000 4X4foot square all white piece of modern art, spinning two other friends into the hyperventilating frenzy which offered the audience the joy of comic theater.
What is art? What is digital photography? What "meets the challenge"? A simple question with no obvious answer. That mystery and wonder is part of the genius of this website, bringing together an international diverse community of folks who weekly have the pleasure of wrestling with such creative questions.
Meet you in the next challenge! |
This is an interesting arguement, one that I have come to terms with years ago. ( I am a abstract expressionist, so you should figure from that statement were I stand on the issue)
I do have a question though. I went to the challenge results page of the challenge this "photo" was in and studied it for a little while and came up with a question I need answered just because I don't know the answer.
If the photo that you entered in the challenge is a photo taken the way you said, would I see pixels in it when I enlarged it????
BMM |
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06/09/2005 11:33:12 AM · #70 |
Originally posted by Barry:
If the photo that you entered in the challenge is a photo taken the way you said, would I see pixels in it when I enlarged it????
Yes, the pixels are there...though they may be tough to see due to the lack of contrast and the monochrome field.
By the way, do you have photographs of your abstract expressionist art? Or do you have abstract expressionist photos? I'll go check your profile. |
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06/09/2005 11:47:31 AM · #71 |
Now that Charlie's offered up his exegesis of how the image was created, and why, we DO have an interesting situation on our hands, don't we?
I mean, think about it; the man came up with a vision for a challenge entry, he made a setup to capture his vision, he captured it flawlessly with a digital camera, and he entered it in the challenge.
The vision itself is somewhat elliptical, as it were, but it does present (IMO at least) a perfectly valid spin on the topic: if the challenge is "Decision" then "INdecision" is a valid subset of that challenge, just as my "Extreme INaction" was a valid, if severely under appreciated, take on "Extreme Action".
So here's the dilemma, and it has nothing to do with DPC really, but everything to do with the nature of art: how much must we/is it appropriate to factor int he artist's intentions when we evaluate whether or not a piece can even be taken seriously as art. IN other words, is Charlie's image more valid because of the thought process behind it?
In any case, I believe that Charlie's detailed and thoughtful explanation of the reasoning/impetus behind his entry should give any thoughtful voter pause the next time s/he is tempted to hammer an entry into the ground because it seems to represent a mockery of the challenge topic.
Robt.
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06/09/2005 12:05:20 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by kiwinick:
for my 2c I have come to the conclusion that 1/2 voting is a waste, I simply disregard all entries that I consider so. Rarely do I vote below a six. |
This I don't understand when on your profile page it says this:
Avg Vote Cast: 5.5025
If you 'rarely' vote below a six, how can your average vote cast be a 5.5?
Message edited by author 2005-06-09 12:09:36.
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06/09/2005 12:14:12 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Originally posted by kiwinick:
for my 2c I have come to the conclusion that 1/2 voting is a waste, I simply disregard all entries that I consider so. Rarely do I vote below a six. |
This I don't understand when on your profile page it says this:
Avg Vote Cast: 5.5025
If you 'rarely' vote below a six, how can your average vote cast be a 5.5? |
Nick's been a member for nearly a year. I suspect that his average vote given is slowly climbing now that he's changed the way he votes, and that the process he describes is the one he currently uses.
Robt.
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06/09/2005 03:57:21 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
So here's the dilemma, and it has nothing to do with DPC really, but everything to do with the nature of art: how much must we/is it appropriate to factor int he artist's intentions when we evaluate whether or not a piece can even be taken seriously as art. IN other words, is Charlie's image more valid because of the thought process behind it? |
I'm not giving him (voting) credit for his "effort", I am simply backing off my rant about him being thoughtless. I would still give it a 1 even if I knew he climbed Mount Everest and took the picture in whiteout conditions and was killed and had it submitted post-humously.
The phrase "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" means just that - the person who is viewing the image. I don't even know what the purpose of calling this a challenge is if we all just assume that to the person who created it, it was the most beautiful thing in the world and deserves a 10 regardless of the fact that it hurts to look at it.
I am guilty of giving pity points or points for perceived effort, but I don't think it's a good practice. I think people should simply rate the photo as THEY see it for WHATEVER reasons, biases, tastes, etc. that they want to employ consciously or subconciously.
Now look you went and got me all fired up again. ;-)
slithering away quietly...
...slithers back to edit typo and slinks away again unnoticed...
Message edited by author 2005-06-09 15:59:11.
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06/09/2005 04:51:35 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by kpriest:
I would still give it a 1 even if I knew he climbed Mount Everest and took the picture in whiteout conditions and was killed and had it submitted post-humously.
Now look you went and got me all fired up again. ;-)
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I'm not dead yet.
As Sam Keen described it, the "fire in the belly" is what makes this website such a cool place! Keep the fire burning! I'll keep the oddshots coming!
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