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 05/04/2005 02:00:04 AM · #1
When I see ISO 800 shots cleaner without post-processing than my ISO 80 is after running Neat Image 34 times ticks me off.
(well not really - just envious as all heck)

2 seconds, F2.2 @ISO80

(last time I use a cross in a challenge, or I just didn't get it - 193/485 ?)

1/4 second, F2.0 @ISO80


Both of these took some work to clean up.
Night shots and long exposures are NOT in my favor, but are a couple of my favorite subjects - UGH.

The day is closing in for an upgrade.
I have pushed the limits with what I have pretty much as far as I could go.

Message edited by author 2005-05-04 02:03:05.
 05/04/2005 02:03:03 AM · #2
They don't look noisy enough to bother me. I think people here have a fetish about that, to be honest. I actually LIKE a little noise in a lot of shots. hell, I ADD noise sometimes :-)

I got dibs on the Olympus; it's an upgrade from MY perspective.

Robt.
 05/04/2005 02:06:54 AM · #3
I like a little noise.. I don't understand why everyone's so against a bit of grain. The grain makes photographs seem more like photographs and less like digital art, if you ask me :)

I didn't enter the late night challenge, which is quite silly considering that I'm nocturnal... but I kept forgetting about it, and I waited too long. Can't do it at the last minute here on the west coast - boo! :)
 05/04/2005 02:08:50 AM · #4
Noise is a friend in some cases:


When it's blotchy in the background, it isn't.
 05/04/2005 02:11:30 AM · #5
Originally posted by bear_music:
They don't look noisy enough to bother me. I think people here have a fetish about that, to be honest. I actually LIKE a little noise in a lot of shots. hell, I ADD noise sometimes :-)

I got dibs on the Olympus; it's an upgrade from MY perspective.

Neither of those are noisy - they have been run through Neat Image or PS CS2 Noise reduction.
I sure wish I could shoot at 320 sometimes, but it bascally isn't useable. Images look like they came out of my old Sony Mavica 1.3MP floppy drive camera.
 05/04/2005 02:12:21 AM · #6
Sometimes I wish that Olympus had stayed with the design (fixed lens DSLR) and just updated it to something like 10x, 5 fps and 8mp.
05/04/2005 02:13:44 AM · #7
Hey, you think YOUR camera is noisy. Here's one at ISO 100 with my G2:



;)

Seriously, I don't see it in those shots, and I think you have a good thing in your camera. After just spending more than $1000 for the compact 70-300 DO IS, and it still weighing a ton, I am beginning to wonder if I shouldn't have just bought the Lumix FZ20 instead!

Does your camera shoot RAW?
 05/04/2005 02:14:06 AM · #8
Originally posted by BradP:
Noise is a friend in some cases:


When it's blotchy in the background, it isn't.


Thanks for pointing that out Brad. I often incorporate a little noise to add emotion or a tactile feel to the photo. I think it can be very effective when used sparingly.

Ron
 05/04/2005 02:43:39 AM · #9
I just dug out some recent shots I did at ISO320 (a case where I couldn't use the flash) and did a 100% crop (actual file size crop) of part of the shot to give as an example of the ISO320 UGH factor.



Message edited by author 2005-05-04 02:50:58.
 05/04/2005 02:45:45 AM · #10
I liked both of those shots. The neon is a tad strong in the second. Otherwise I love em.

The last shot has noise working against the photo.

Message edited by author 2005-05-04 02:47:15.
 05/04/2005 02:45:52 AM · #11
About the same as the Rebel at 800. Though in a dark shot, maybe the Rebel at 400, since noise shows up more when underexposed.
 05/04/2005 03:10:16 AM · #12
Here is a 30.67 second dabble I did in a remote location the other night shooting the stars, camera on 'self'-timer, rear eyepiece shutter closed to prevent backlight from reaching the sensor. Again full crop, this time I let PS auto-level.


OUCH

Message edited by author 2005-05-04 03:13:53.
 05/04/2005 03:32:07 AM · #13
Brad,
auto-levels of course brings out a lot of noise in a dark shot, in any camera. Here is a 100% crop from my yesterday's attempt on a late night challenge (outtaken) - straight out of the camera and with auto-levels

(ISO800, f/32, 3s exposure)

but in general I agree of course - i'd never even try to shoot anything at ISO800 with my Canon G6 (unless by accident)
 05/04/2005 03:37:30 AM · #14
Hi Lev,
I know auto-level can whack out a dark shot. The unedited was basically stars and specs. It is a relative sensor noise test on a black shot (lens cap on) which is kind of what I was doing there.

:)
 05/04/2005 08:53:10 AM · #15
Time to get a dlsr. I was just over at //www.garageglamour.com and there is a perons selling 2 (two) 10Ds with grips for $700. Buy em, sell one and you have a 10D for what, $300 or so??

The Deja Vu challenge pushed me over the edge into the dslr realm. It was a night shot i was trying to copy.

SOOO glad i did it. Worth every payment!
 05/04/2005 10:06:57 AM · #16
Actually Brad has a DSLR....

(SLR has NOTHING to do with ISO speed performance, resolution, or what not. My cell phone camera goes to 1600 ISO speed. SLR essentially means "see thru the lens")

It's just time for one with faster performance (ISO, cache buffer, start-up time).

BradP, I just moved up to the Canon 20D. I think you'd love it.
05/04/2005 10:12:53 AM · #17
And all this time I thought it was Single Lens Reflex...and TTL was Through the Lens...

ED: :)

Message edited by author 2005-05-04 10:13:57.
 05/04/2005 10:32:36 AM · #18
sin·gle-lens reflex (snggl-lnz)
adj. Abbr. SLR

Of or designating a form of reflex camera in which the reflecting mirror retracts when the shutter is released.

[[[Yes, but essentially, as I've read, the intent was to allow the user to see what the lens sees. As opposed to a seperate viewfinder. One could say it was an early form of WYSIWYG...pre-web.

The Olympus E-series though does use a unique variant with a prism that actually allowed them to have the LCD be used as a viewfinder as well. And doesn't completely black out the image as I recall.

There are many features on Olympus E-10/20 I wish were on my Canon 20D.

1. The nifty little switch to block light from passing thru the viewfinder (much nicer than Canon's "remove the eyepiece and cover with rubber thing we gave you on your camera strap". I wonder how many of those get thrown out by people who think it's just packaging.

2. View thru LCD

3. Pop-out LCD, there were many times I held the camera upside down over my head to shoot over the crowd at concerts.

4. Most solid digital camera I've ever held. It is still much better crafted than my Canon 20D (which is much better than the Canon Rebels)

5. Beautiful vibrancy

--------------------------------------------------------

Now for features no one has....

A) viewfinder out for composing. I'd love to be able to attach a video out along with a remote cord that would allow you to mount your camera on say a pole or monopod several feet above you. But you could view the composition via say a small 7" portable screen and take the shot via a remote connector.

05/04/2005 11:49:41 AM · #19
My Sony 828 sucks at iso 800. I took a bunch of night shots for the challenge; I couldn't even clean them up--especially w/o spot editing.
 05/04/2005 11:57:41 AM · #20
Originally posted by BradP:
Noise is a friend in some cases:


When it's blotchy in the background, it isn't.


'atmospheric' noise.
 05/04/2005 01:12:08 PM · #21
You're absolutely right, Brad. That camera is a real handicap in some situations. To keep it fair, you should downgrade IMMEDIATELY! A nice 1 megapixel keychain camera would even out the competition nicely. ;-P
 05/04/2005 01:19:15 PM · #22
My D-Rebel is available Brad!
 05/04/2005 01:31:45 PM · #23
Originally posted by doctornick:
My D-Rebel is available Brad!


Though I understand that our E-10s actually have some features that the Rebel doesn't???? (I've forgotten what, though).

There are ONLY two things I don't like about the E-10 - crappy sensor and no good lens options. Oops, three. The write time to a card is TERRIBLE.

Message edited by author 2005-05-04 13:34:57.
 05/04/2005 01:36:44 PM · #24
Originally posted by nards656:
I understand that our E-10s actually have some features that the Rebel doesn't????


Auto-grain addition, time lapse LCD reviews, and the ability to keep Hummers from rolling downhill?
 05/04/2005 01:40:22 PM · #25
Brad, you should retire your E-10 with full honors and parade, it's served you well (BETTER than well). Either Canon or Nikon SLR will give you unbelievable performance and low noise even above ISO800. Go for it.

(not dissing the Pentax and other SLRs, just not familiar with them).

-J

edit: typo

Message edited by author 2005-05-04 13:41:06.
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