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04/09/2005 01:12:18 PM · #1 |
This idea was inspired by James Stanton's Recent Thread that showed a lot of interest in people asking for and in return receiving comments.
Perhaps the Critique Club forum could be changed into a type of data base where people post photos for critique, much like in the previously stated thread, and then people may comment/critique on the photo that they would like to. I think I am making sense, but this would just be a way to get the "critique request" to become a more public thing in which everyone can comment since some people do not want to -- less even know how to -- become an actual member of The Critique Club/
Does this make sense? If i need to clarify myself just let me know. My brain tends to go on Standby during weekends.
Lee
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04/09/2005 01:29:56 PM · #2 |
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04/09/2005 01:30:24 PM · #3 |
I would love to see any critique request accompanied by a 'self critique' by the artist. I have done so many critique club critiques where the artist posted no thoughts or information with the image. The same thing holds true in most of these threads where a photographer post a photo requesting critique. The post a picture and say 'what do you think?'
I don't spend much time thinking about those images usually. If the photographer posted a photo and stated his own intentions and thoughts about the image, I would be much more likely to post my own thoughts. |
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04/09/2005 01:52:25 PM · #4 |
Sounds like a goods idea to me. I would also like to see peoples descriptions along with their edits on the photo before I comment.
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04/09/2005 02:25:29 PM · #5 |
I've said this before, and I'll say it again...the only thing that keeps me from critiquing a lot of images through critique club is that it selects them for me.
If there was a page given to you with 10 thumbnails, and you could pick one, I'd quite possibly have a go at it all day long. There's just some photos that I don't feel I can properly critique -- whereas another member of the CC might be able to.
If you like apples, don't buy oranges.
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04/09/2005 02:35:44 PM · #6 |
I also like the idea of being able to pick from a group of pics, as it is difficult to critique a subject that you may not have any interest in.
I also feel that the contributing photographer needs to have some investment in their request. They need to give some of their own input such as what they were trying to accomplish, what conditions they had to work with, provide a list of equipment used, etc. In other words if they aren't interested enough to inform the critiquer they aren't sincere in their request.
There are so many times I see a great shot and the shooter doesn't provide any information, that just simply SUCKS. So for a critique I feel it is a must!
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04/09/2005 02:39:15 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by deapee:
I've said this before, and I'll say it again...the only thing that keeps me from critiquing a lot of images through critique club is that it selects them for me.
If there was a page given to you with 10 thumbnails, and you could pick one, I'd quite possibly have a go at it all day long. There's just some photos that I don't feel I can properly critique -- whereas another member of the CC might be able to.
If you like apples, don't buy oranges. |
If this were an option like mentioned above in my thread then I would comment more.
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04/09/2005 02:39:44 PM · #8 |
I don't really want anything from my critiques...just check it as helpful because I took the time to offer it.
I know some people are going to be thinking that if you can select pics to critique that some may always get skipped over, but have a page dedicated to the ones that have been on the longest...like if they're 2 weeks old and haven't been critiqued, have their title in red or something.
I know I'd do a couple of the ones that got passed over, but I'd have to be in the mood to do it. At the same time, there's nothing like being in the mood to critique a certain type of shot, then you click the button and you have a puppy dog starring you in the face when meanwhile you hate puppy dogs, but CC member B might love puppy dogs and that's what he does for a living or wahtever whereas CC member A likes landscapes and CC member C does city stuff. See what I mean?
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04/09/2005 02:49:49 PM · #9 |
I am in total agreement here with JMSetzler. To elaborate further:
When you spend adequate time in examining your own work you will take the very first step to pen the range of your intentions and how well you think you achieved the goal. With this information you may even reconsider a second opinion if you feel that that you fell too short of your goals. If on the other hand, you feel you achieved your goal but nevertheless feel that something about the overall effects bothers you then the second opinion will be more valuable.
Some say it is difficult to evalute one's own work. Well, in some cases it is but most of the time you will see the image the way that others will. That is, there is always a disparity in which the goal was or not met. Some images are also captives of many uncertainties such as improper exposure, bad composition and bad lighting and when these items are mixed with improper dof, wrong point of focus etc., the image simply does not shine yet we doubt or believe there is some saving factor. Here we say to ourselves, "this image is not very good but there is something that interest me about it." Well, here is where we turn to the second opinion.
The added advantage of analysing your own images in detail is that you will eventually develop that sonar critique that will help validate your efforts yourself. |
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04/09/2005 02:52:00 PM · #10 |
You all have the chance to "cherry-pick" entries for comments every challenge. Instead of waiting for a formal restructure of the CC, why don't you just write one or more extensive "critiques" each challenge?
Of course, as John pointed out, an excellent place to start is with your own entries ... |
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04/09/2005 04:37:46 PM · #11 |
Is there a special format that the Critique Club goes by to comment on photos? I was thinking of joining.
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04/09/2005 04:50:15 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by rex07734:
Is there a special format that the Critique Club goes by to comment on photos? I was thinking of joining. |
Nope nothing in particular. The concept is great, it just for the lack of effort doesn't work. (myself included in that demographic)
Lee |
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04/09/2005 05:15:31 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
You all have the chance to "cherry-pick" entries for comments every challenge. Instead of waiting for a formal restructure of the CC, why don't you just write one or more extensive "critiques" each challenge?
Of course, as John pointed out, an excellent place to start is with your own entries ... |
That's not my point...if I wanted to comment during challenges, I would, and will. The fact is ... there are 342 entries in queue waiting to be critiqued...and they're not getting done.
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04/09/2005 06:28:25 PM · #14 |
Ok I just sent Manic a PM about joing the CC
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04/09/2005 06:38:54 PM · #15 |
When entering a photograph, I always tick the critique club, but I believe it comes with a note to say it from the cc. I have never got one of these. I know I have lots to learn, and alot of my learning is about photoshop. I was looking a the forum tonight about post your ps on this pic...WOW I was amazed at what some people on here can do...
debbie |
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04/09/2005 06:44:41 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I would love to see any critique request accompanied by a 'self critique' by the artist. |
I have never even thought about that. I never put any comments with my photo. I post it and go down the road. I guess that really would give you an idea what the photographer was thinking.
I dont ever ask for a critique, but that certaily is an interesting perspective.
Message edited by author 2005-04-09 18:46:17. |
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04/09/2005 09:25:07 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Riggs:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I would love to see any critique request accompanied by a 'self critique' by the artist. |
I have never even thought about that. I never put any comments with my photo. I post it and go down the road. I guess that really would give you an idea what the photographer was thinking.
I dont ever ask for a critique, but that certaily is an interesting perspective. |
It really does make sense if you think about it. What if I spend 10 minutes typing up a critique and the photographer is already aware of everything I typed. It's a waste of time for both of us. This is one reason I rarely critique when simply asked "what do you think?" My response would be "well... what do YOU think?"
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04/10/2005 02:16:39 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Tranquil:
... Perhaps the Critique Club forum could be changed into a type of data base where people post photos for critique, much like in the previously stated thread, and then people may comment/critique on the photo that they would like to. I think I am making sense, but this would just be a way to get the "critique request" to become a more public thing in which everyone can comment since some people do not want to -- less even know how to -- become an actual member of The Critique Club. ...
Lee |
How does this differ from the 'Individual Photograph Discussion' forum that is already in existence? It would seem to reduce the value of the critique club idea -- notice I said idea, the implementation of the idea of having an formal avenue to receive in depth critiques is obviously lacking. If only from the perspective of the percentage that request but never receive the critique.
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by Riggs:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I would love to see any critique request accompanied by a 'self critique' by the artist. |
I have never even thought about that. I never put any comments with my photo. I post it and go down the road. I guess that really would give you an idea what the photographer was thinking.
I dont ever ask for a critique, but that certaily is an interesting perspective. |
It really does make sense if you think about it. What if I spend 10 minutes typing up a critique and the photographer is already aware of everything I typed. It's a waste of time for both of us. This is one reason I rarely critique when simply asked "what do you think?" My response would be "well... what do YOU think?" |
That would depend on what the photographer was wanting to get out of the critique, wouldn't it? Sure for treatise on the technical failures of the image it is vital the photographer's own intention be known before the critique is written -- but for those photographers who understand the mechanics of the image, and have composed the elements with deliberate intent, a discussion of the technical aspects are not likely to be of much interest -- at least not immediately. The photograther who has created the image they intended to create (self-critiques certainly involved here), but is still not certain if it conveys the message/emotion/impact desired may not want to lead the viewer. There is a lot to be said of the value of knowing how well a communication is receieved without prior explaination -- the mechanics are simply not important for the moment.
Some, I suppose, will say the photographer that is not looking for a dissection of the mechanics of the image is not asking for a critique, but I would disagree. A critique is still being requested when the image is presented with no explaination -- however it is a critique of the impact the communication has on the viewer, not of the medium that conveyed the message.
I see it as a matter of mastery of the craft, with several stages of developement -- what defines each stage is likely a topic for active debate. However, I believe it is clear that there is a disticnt difference between the master of the craft and a neophyte who is just learning what an f-stop is and how it affects the photo. Critiques presented at a level different from the stage of the photographer are always likely to be less than useful. It is for this reason I have advocated recognition of the level of mastery of both photographer and critic.
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One thing I would like to see, while we are on the subject (close to it anyway), is a better implementation of communication between site members. Comments left on images (especially CC critiques) on images not currently being voted upon may go for days before being seen. Then any response to the comment must be taken off-site if it is to be done at all. Even the PM system being a front-end for emailing, is taking it off-site. There are a few who take the discussion to the general forums, but that is hardly ideal. A system that encourages, not simply allows for, continued discussions is greatly needed. IMO, of course.
David
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04/10/2005 02:51:30 PM · #19 |
We do it for challenges why not critique, only add a bit.
ISO:
Shutter Speed:
Aperture:
Over all lighting:
Time of day:
What camera did you use:
What lens did you use:
Why did you take this photo:
What do you like about your photo:
What do you dislike about your photo: |
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04/10/2005 03:16:17 PM · #20 |
We got the whole comment field to wright any thing we want about the shoot. Why not use it? I see soooo many entries that just leave it blank, like "I got it entered, it ain't gonna win, so who gives a (blank) about what I have just done to get this greatrest picture of all time". But they check for a critique anyway. Ok! I'm Done Bxtchxng.
Hey why don't we all just critique one image while we are voting? Then add a critique for every one we get. That would provide enough to go around for everyone.
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04/10/2005 04:34:27 PM · #21 |
Got a reply from Manic and am now part of the critique club. The only thing that would be helpful to change is to put in that they cannot receive a critique unless they put in their on critique of their own image and all their edits.
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04/10/2005 05:34:42 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by rex07734:
Got a reply from Manic and am now part of the critique club. The only thing that would be helpful to change is to put in that they cannot receive a critique unless they put in their on critique of their own image and all their edits. |
I believe the current CC rules already state that you do not need to review a photo without photographer's notes. Just type a note to that effect and move on to the next one. |
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04/10/2005 05:36:57 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by rex07734:
Got a reply from Manic and am now part of the critique club. The only thing that would be helpful to change is to put in that they cannot receive a critique unless they put in their on critique of their own image and all their edits. |
I believe the current CC rules already state that you do not need to review a photo without photographer's notes. Just type a note to that effect and move on to the next one. |
I didn't want it to seem like I am trying to skip some
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