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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> So how many 9/11 pics will we see next week?
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Showing posts 26 - 48 of 48, (reverse)
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 09/11/2002 01:00:48 PM · #26
Originally posted by just-married:
To CJ and Heather,

Personally, I think that it is fairly obvious when something is a photojournalistic attempt. For instance, this week's 9-11 tribute photo was OBVIOUSLY set up. That doesn't make it less good, but it makes it pretty obvious that it wasn't a captured moment.

Dawn

Good point. That's why I wasa using Manic's hypothetical flag-burning submission as my example. In something like that we may be too quick to assume the photographer's intent to be something other than it was.

-Terry
 09/11/2002 01:12:54 PM · #27
There was a shot that I really wanted to get this week. A bunch of Denver firefighters got on their motorcycles and headed across country, with their arrival at Ground Zero timed to coincide with the 11th. They picked up riders along the way - last count I heard was close to 200. I'm torn about taking photos like that though. On one hand, I think a lot of what has gone on around this event has been theater, designed to tug at peoples heartstrings and to drag a patriotic response out of them/us. On the other hand, it would have been a really nifty shot. :-D
 09/11/2002 01:19:21 PM · #28
If you have an emotional response to the event, do things to capture that, and save it, if that is helpful. Going back to my essays, I think I those will be good insights to who I was at that point in my life, and I will like to share them with my children.
 09/11/2002 01:25:29 PM · #29
Originally posted by kathleenm:
There was a shot that I really wanted to get this week. A bunch of Denver firefighters got on their motorcycles and headed across country, with their arrival at Ground Zero timed to coincide with the 11th. They picked up riders along the way - last count I heard was close to 200. I'm torn about taking photos like that though. On one hand, I think a lot of what has gone on around this event has been theater, designed to tug at peoples heartstrings and to drag a patriotic response out of them/us. On the other hand, it would have been a really nifty shot. :-D

Such a site would have moved me tremendously, and I would not have thought twice about taking shots of it. Ordinary people taking the time from their own lives to make that kind of statement is far from theater. (Although I will not disagree that there has been some theater surrounding the events of 9-11, I would hesitate to identify most displays of patriotism/compassion/support/grief as theater.) I may be naive, but I think that most people's intentions are honorable.
 09/11/2002 01:29:16 PM · #30
Originally posted by lhall:
Originally posted by kathleenm:
[i]There was a shot that I really wanted to get this week. A bunch of Denver firefighters got on their motorcycles and headed across country, with their arrival at Ground Zero timed to coincide with the 11th. They picked up riders along the way - last count I heard was close to 200. I'm torn about taking photos like that though. On one hand, I think a lot of what has gone on around this event has been theater, designed to tug at peoples heartstrings and to drag a patriotic response out of them/us. On the other hand, it would have been a really nifty shot. :-D

Such a site would have moved me tremendously, and I would not have thought twice about taking shots of it. Ordinary people taking the time from their own lives to make that kind of statement is far from theater. (Although I will not disagree that there has been some theater surrounding the events of 9-11, I would hesitate to identify most displays of patriotism/compassion/support/grief as theater.) I may be naive, but I think that most people's intentions are honorable.[/i]

Oh, let me clarify. I absolutely wasn't referring to the firefighters when I spoke of theater. Mostly of the media's response. Apologies to those of you in that field. :-)
 09/11/2002 01:29:33 PM · #31
Originally posted by Zeissman:
As far as the photo you were talking about, do you know the story behind it? That was an enemy officer, caught behind enemy lines, out of uniform. He was dispatched in accordance to the Geneva Convention.
At least that is the story I know.

Ummm, you may wish to revisit your history and the history of that shot. I don't say this to pick a fight or throw another log on the fire... I say it because you're mistaken about the facts behind that shot. I'd go into it, but I've promised myself not to get sucked into this thread... But a little research might suprise you as to what happened that day.
 09/11/2002 01:30:27 PM · #32
Agreed. The media gets on my nerves severely !
 09/11/2002 01:31:56 PM · #33
Kathleen,

This would not have been seen as opportunistic by me. i would think of that if done right as a photojournalism shot.

FWIW,
Dawn
 09/11/2002 01:38:50 PM · #34
I think there's a fine line between good photojournalism and "taking advantage" of a shocking moment or event to get pictures published. Unfortunately, due to the very competitive nature of the media market and photographer market, over the past decades there has clearly been a growing interest by certain media to get the shock effect.

When it comes to how people react to pictures, DPC tells the story quite well, as does this thread. We all react differently depending on how we relate to the picture. I try to keep an open mind about different photos, although some, will always appear shocking and disturbing...but that is important too.
 09/11/2002 01:40:08 PM · #35
Originally posted by myqyl:
Ummm, you may wish to revisit your history and the history of that shot. I don't say this to pick a fight or throw another log on the fire... I say it because you're mistaken about the facts behind that shot. I'd go into it, but I've promised myself not to get sucked into this thread... But a little research might suprise you as to what happened that day.

Hey! no fair giving us homework. I wanna know. Maybe you will PM me. Boy, I'm lazy, huh?

Wink,
Dawn
 09/11/2002 01:50:16 PM · #36
As far as taking a picture to evoke emotions: what is wrong with that. I don't mean in a way to exploit or degrade someone, but just to get them to feel something. There has been a lot of artwork (visual, performing, other) that has evoked many emotions in me. Some makes me angry, some makes me sad, others uplift and encourage me. Even here at DPC, I have seen shots that seemed to be taken to shock, to uplift, to educate, etc. obviously, I don't "like" pictures that make me angry (as in I wouldn't buy one), but if it can evoke emotion, it has done soemthing.

As per the events of 9-11. Yea, the picture would evoke many emotions, depending on who you are and where you are. For hbunch (I think that's right) it is a source of sadness and grief. For one of the radical Muslims meeting in London today to look at the positive effects of the terrorist attacks, it may evoke soemthing totally different.

As a musician, I have always wanted to write a song that would move a person and make a difference in their lives. (Haven't done it, YET, will keep trying). When I tinkered with "art" (drawing, etc.) I wanted teh same thing (prolly ain't gonna happen). Now that I am learning photography, that is still a goal of mine. If 9-11 moves you, and taking pictures memoralizing that helps you to "cope" I think it could be very theraputic (sp?). The voters have the right to vote how they want; you have the right to take a picture of what you want. Like John said, whatever you want.

Sorry this is so long, i just felt the need to express an opinion. :-)
 09/11/2002 02:19:31 PM · #37
I also think we should take pictures of whatever we want to take. Isn't that really why we all got cameras in the first place? If I decide to take a photo of a 9/11 ceremony and I think it shows good negative space, I'll submit it. Opportunistic? Maybe it is or maybe it isn't. I really don't care.
 09/11/2002 03:07:47 PM · #38
Originally posted by inspzil:
I think that IF its a photo you would have submitted 9/10/2001, you should submit it. If you're trying to play that card for a little extra-sympathy-padding for a rating, GET BENT! I am envisioning many pictures of the spot where the towers used to be as the main culprit of this, probably black and white. If done well, you'll have my vote. Anything not done well, and submitted for the aforementioned padding, be prepared for a big fat "1" from me. If you're gonna pay tribute, do it right or don't do it!!


I was in NYC last week and went to ground zero. It was literally the first time in my life that I was speechless. I had been there 3 days before the attacks last year, in Battery Park City, in the subway station, in the mall, in the towers themselves.

The images in my mind of the pit in the center of the city were the first things that jumped to mind when I saw the topic for this week's challenge. Will I submit an image of it? No (my shots were last week so they wouldn't qualify anyway). The image is so powerful to me that I don't think I could handle watching it get trashed by people in a challenge. But does the image apply to the challenge? Absolutely. For me it's the most ... the most amazing interpretation of negative space I could think of.

I don't think that every picture submitted here has to be "timeless" anyway. The time frame for these challenges are definitely going to affect what people shoot. Wintertime challenges will include snow, Halloween-time challenges will probably include falling leaves or pumpkins or whatnot. If this anniversary falls within the time allotted for the challenge, I think images of it are appropriate. It's not a shot you would have taken on 9.10.01. Big whoop. It applies now.

Sorry, guys. I'm a big bummer today. I've been avoiding 9.11 stuff for a year now but today it's hitting me kind of hard. I didn't lose anyone, I didn't even really know anyone directly affected, but I can't imagine what it could be like. Seeing ground zero was just emotional. You feel awed and helpless and mad and confused.

I'm with Heather. SpongeBob Squarepants marathon for me today.

Rob

 09/11/2002 04:18:52 PM · #39
hehe... I go to court to pay a fine for no front license plate and I come back to this! What have I done?!!

Ok, I think I may have miscommunicated my intention. If I have the opportunity to take a photo that fits the challenge, I'm going to take it. I did not spend $2,000 for my camera to let other people tell me what shots I should take. Do I care if I get slammed with 1's? Not a bit. I have tougher hide than that. But if you are giving outr 1's because you feel uncomfortable with the subject matter, then YOU need a tougher hide.

And how can you know for certain that I went out LOOKING to take a shot just to win points by taking a patriotic photo? If I wanted points, I'll take pictures of babies and clouds... ho hum and yawn.

In this week's voting, I voted lower (with a few exceptions) for shots of "just fruit"... anyone can do that. But the photos of fruit with more character and thought received higher scores from me. My point is, we have a challenge... this week marks an anniversary of a very emotional time... it makes perfect sense to immortalize the emotions some of us will encounter. To ignore it out of respect isn't respectful to me... I prefer to remember the good and bad things that came out of 9/11.

Flame away.
 09/11/2002 04:56:30 PM · #40
Originally posted by bamaster:
hehe... I go to court to pay a fine for no front license plate and I come back to this! What have I done?!!

Ok, I think I may have miscommunicated my intention. If I have the opportunity to take a photo that fits the challenge, I'm going to take it. I did not spend $2,000 for my camera to let other people tell me what shots I should take. Do I care if I get slammed with 1's? Not a bit. I have tougher hide than that. But if you are giving outr 1's because you feel uncomfortable with the subject matter, then YOU need a tougher hide.

And how can you know for certain that I went out LOOKING to take a shot just to win points by taking a patriotic photo? If I wanted points, I'll take pictures of babies and clouds... ho hum and yawn.

In this week's voting, I voted lower (with a few exceptions) for shots of "just fruit"... anyone can do that. But the photos of fruit with more character and thought received higher scores from me. My point is, we have a challenge... this week marks an anniversary of a very emotional time... it makes perfect sense to immortalize the emotions some of us will encounter. To ignore it out of respect isn't respectful to me... I prefer to remember the good and bad things that came out of 9/11.

Flame away.


Sounds to me like you're going into it with the right attitude, and for the right reasons. I can't wait to see what you come up with. Good luck with your photograph and with the challenge.

-Terry
 09/11/2002 05:06:46 PM · #41
Originally posted by bamaster:
hehe... I go to court to pay a fine for no front license plate and I come back to this! What have I done?!!
Flame away.


Not from me. If you haven't yet, see the interesting "sidetrack" in the middle of the "Take A Break..." rant thread and see my outtakes (link there)...

--Paul
 09/11/2002 06:18:13 PM · #42
Take pictures of whatever you like? I take pictures of memorials all the time in my travels. It seems like you can't go anywhere anymore without seeing them along roadsides so I take pictures of them. I am not watching much television today because that is all that is on about the events a year ago. I not big on anniversaries of deaths my wife remember them, I try not too. I try to remember the people not the date. I think about what happened in New York, Washington DC, and Pennsylvania every day. I don't need a yearly date to remember what happened to feel sorry for the victims, or how angry I am at the terrorists?
 09/11/2002 08:55:05 PM · #43
Okay, my photo is submitted and it may be considered controversial. I was very proud of it because it means something to me. Will it be trashed? Probably it will. I don't consider it opportunistic but more of a representation of my feelings.
 09/12/2002 12:08:27 AM · #44
you can say that again.
 09/12/2002 04:10:12 AM · #45
Well.. I'm not gonna submit any 9/11 shots for challenges... but i did take some at two of the events I went to today. If you want, you can check them out here. Let me know what you think.. there's about 2 1/2 shots I really like. thanks


* This message has been edited by the author on 9/12/2002 4:09:14 AM.
 09/12/2002 09:22:12 AM · #46
Hi Jen:

this one
says alot to me. I don't need photos in order to remember either, but I like to see them because I feel it is a way of communicating togetherness in this. Some people write about events, photographers catch the whole feeling in an image, and it can serve not necessarily as a reminder, but a way to say "yeah. me too. i know how you feel". Thanks for sharing, Jen.




* This message has been edited by the author on 9/12/2002 9:20:57 AM.
 09/12/2002 10:32:54 AM · #47
WARNING : This post is a long and boring dissertation by a history buff. Please feel free to skip to the next relevant post :)

My comment earlier on historical inaccuracies surrounding Zeissman's comment about the Vietnam War era photo of General Loan shooting Bay Lop in the head, probably should be clarified. I'm NOT trying to say Bay Lop was an angel (far from it) or that General Loan was a villain (also far from the facts)... My concern was more about the Geneva Convention... Zeiss PM'd me and asked for clarification and I thought I should put my reply here too. This way Dawn doesn't have to do her homework :)

Zeiss PM'd "Can you point me in the right direction, or share it with me?"

My reply :

I assume you mean about the photo of Gen. Loan shooting the prisoner? For the most part, you are 'likely' right. The prisoner, Bay Lop, was accused of killing a policeman, his wife and 6 children. Close and personal friends of Gen. Nguyen Ngoc Loan, the shooter. In fact it is highly likely that he was guilty. But the shooting was not in accord with the Geneva Convention, which only applies to the rights and responsibilities of military personal (Gen. Loan was a police officer although Article 1 can be extended to him I guess) to execute spies (enemy agents out of uniform seeking information. Bay Lop did not fit that profile as he was NOT gathering information and should have been treated as a prisoner of war (Article 29)) AFTER a military tribunal (Act 30). Gen. Loan shot Bay Lop minutes after he was discovered near the scene of his friend's murder. The Geneva Convention also requires that the bodies of the executed illegal combatants be turned over to the other side for burial. Bay Lop's body has never been found. Was justice done? Most likely, although we can never be certain as there was never a tribunal. Was the Geneva Convention applied? Nope. Of course, those were extreme times and extreme measures were taken. I wouldn't dream of second guessing the actions of a man fighting to keep control of his town, especially not within the minutes following finding a good friend murdered along with his whole family. My only point is that the Geneva Convention didn't apply here and was certainly not followed.

It may be a nitpick, but the Geneva Convention is likely the most misquoted document ever written. Even it's name is wrong in the history books. It's the "Convention (II) with Respect to the Laws and Customs of War on Land and its annex: Regulation concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land,26 Martens Nouveau Recueil (ser. 2) 949, 187 Consol. T.S. 429, entered into force Sept. 4, 1900."

The full text can be found at here

Also, others (not you) implied that this was a candid photo... Gen. Loan gathered the media, carefully posed and pull the trigger. And someone said it got the Nobel Peace Prize, it received a Pulitzer.

Sorry to go on so long, but I'm a history buff and little things get under my skin :) I just hope no one starts a discussion about the Magna Carta... I'll have to be tied to a chair...

End Reply




* This message has been edited by the author on 9/12/2002 10:32:04 AM.
 09/12/2002 10:45:30 AM · #48
thank you Myqyl, you honor the truth. aelith
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