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09/15/2011 12:13:29 PM · #501 |
Originally posted by MelonMusketeer:
Re post by  Flash ; July 011 Volt Sales
125 "Volts" sold in July. That should make a dent in this climate change thing. I do give GM a thumbs up for smart use of the clean-up leftovers. I sort of suspect that it may have been more of a PR thing than a true commitment to going green. |
Will the tree huggers cry about my lithium/vanadium mine that supplies car battery manufacturers?
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09/15/2011 12:31:47 PM · #502 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by MelonMusketeer:
Re post by Flash ; July 011 Volt Sales
125 "Volts" sold in July. That should make a dent in this climate change thing. I do give GM a thumbs up for smart use of the clean-up leftovers. I sort of suspect that it may have been more of a PR thing than a true commitment to going green. |
Will the tree huggers cry about my lithium/vanadium mine that supplies car battery manufacturers? |
What mineral deposit has those two together in economic concentrations?.. I'm suspicious of your mining operation. :)
PS, you'll want the diamond chain for your chainsaw, as the regular ones wear out pretty fast in rock. ;) |
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09/15/2011 12:33:49 PM · #503 |
"volcanoes spew out as much pollution as all the cars that have ever been put on Earth combined..."
im not saying i dont believe in climate change, i just personally think we have to understand that at one point (scientists say) the whole earth was covered under 2 MILES of ice...
I know we are doing terrible things to our earth, and making species extinct, but we'll probably be extinct in several thousand years.
If not by some natural disaster, we will be overpopulated (we already are, but to an extent that..) disease and hunger will spread very fast.
I hope nobody looks at this badly, but all in all it is a cycle of the world. There have been times where the world has been total desert, a flaming ball of hot lava etc, and times when it has been ice (i think that was caused by all the volcanic ash covering the sun for too long?).
Species will go extinct, within several thousand years probably all species will go extinct/ evolve into something that can withstand there weather, food supply, water supply, etc.
Look, i may be wrong about all this, but do you guys REALLY believe that the earths weather will stay totally still and perfect like this forever????!!!!!
Keep believing what you want, but go out and DO something to help the PLANET, not the WEATHER. Grow a garden and eat your own food, take shorter showers, etc.
Anyways, sorry if you guys look at me badly, but again i cant stress how much i care about our planet, just dont believe in global warming... (well, i do, but the weather is always changing! so not totally manmade)
We may be speeding it up a little bit, but that just means we'll go away faster.
Sorry for the really jumbled post..
--n
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09/15/2011 01:31:32 PM · #504 |
Originally posted by Cory:
...What mineral deposit has those two together in economic concentrations?... |
PM sent ;-)
Message edited by author 2011-09-15 14:19:30.
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09/15/2011 01:45:33 PM · #505 |
Originally posted by nB:
"volcanoes spew out as much pollution as all the cars that have ever been put on Earth combined..."
im not saying i dont believe in climate change, i just personally think we have to understand that at one point (scientists say) the whole earth was covered under 2 MILES of ice...
I know we are doing terrible things to our earth, and making species extinct, but we'll probably be extinct in several thousand years.
If not by some natural disaster, we will be overpopulated (we already are, but to an extent that..) disease and hunger will spread very fast.
I hope nobody looks at this badly, but all in all it is a cycle of the world. There have been times where the world has been total desert, a flaming ball of hot lava etc, and times when it has been ice (i think that was caused by all the volcanic ash covering the sun for too long?).
Species will go extinct, within several thousand years probably all species will go extinct/ evolve into something that can withstand there weather, food supply, water supply, etc.
Look, i may be wrong about all this, but do you guys REALLY believe that the earths weather will stay totally still and perfect like this forever????!!!!!
Keep believing what you want, but go out and DO something to help the PLANET, not the WEATHER. Grow a garden and eat your own food, take shorter showers, etc.
Anyways, sorry if you guys look at me badly, but again i cant stress how much i care about our planet, just dont believe in global warming... (well, i do, but the weather is always changing! so not totally manmade)
We may be speeding it up a little bit, but that just means we'll go away faster.
Sorry for the really jumbled post..
--n |
global warming has been scientifically proven, is been measured. its pretty simple actually if the average temperature of the earth consistently increases that means the earth is getting warmer. now what causes it and and what effects is has are debatable, but global warming is real. let stop denying that fact. |
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09/15/2011 02:55:28 PM · #506 |
Originally posted by nB:
im not saying i dont believe in climate change,.........but again i cant stress how much i care about our planet, just dont believe in global warming... (well, i do, but the weather is always changing! so not totally manmade)
We may be speeding it up a little bit, but that just means we'll go away faster.
--n |
One issue that people who are confused about climate change tend to stumble on is the big question. Is climate change man made or part of a natural cycle? the answer is YES. Both. Just because there is natural fluctuation does not obviate the fact that man is also influencing the cyclic nature of climactic change.
Two facts can be equally true and when their confluence is dangerous to the continuation of our lives as they are, we need to make an effort to change what we can. When you are driving in the mountains, and you are heading down hill, your car will go faster. Is it because you are giving the car too much gas? No, but hitting the accelerator on a down hill makes you go faster when you ought to be hitting the brakes. If you decide that you are going to keep your RPMs at the same level uphill and downhill because the mountains are more responsible for your speed than your engine is you are likely to loose control of your car.
A few years ago there was hue and cry about the hole in the ozone layer, and experts said the aerosol propellants in household goods were a contributing factor. At first manufacturers said that the market demanded these products and that they were there to feed the market, and disputed the connection between ozone depletion and aerosols anyway. Soon many products were on the market in solid and pump form, and became common and won over a big chunk of the market. Turns out the market was willing to make a small change to better the chances of keeping the planet a bit more livable.
Just because the problem is vast and complex does not mean that nothing can be done. A number of small and incremental steps need to be taken, because we are currently headed down the hill and the gas pedal is down.
Message edited by author 2011-09-15 14:55:54. |
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09/15/2011 03:25:38 PM · #507 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by nB:
"volcanoes spew out as much pollution as all the cars that have ever been put on Earth combined..."
im not saying i dont believe in climate change, i just personally think we have to understand that at one point (scientists say) the whole earth was covered under 2 MILES of ice...
I know we are doing terrible things to our earth, and making species extinct, but we'll probably be extinct in several thousand years.
If not by some natural disaster, we will be overpopulated (we already are, but to an extent that..) disease and hunger will spread very fast.
I hope nobody looks at this badly, but all in all it is a cycle of the world. There have been times where the world has been total desert, a flaming ball of hot lava etc, and times when it has been ice (i think that was caused by all the volcanic ash covering the sun for too long?).
Species will go extinct, within several thousand years probably all species will go extinct/ evolve into something that can withstand there weather, food supply, water supply, etc.
Look, i may be wrong about all this, but do you guys REALLY believe that the earths weather will stay totally still and perfect like this forever????!!!!!
Keep believing what you want, but go out and DO something to help the PLANET, not the WEATHER. Grow a garden and eat your own food, take shorter showers, etc.
Anyways, sorry if you guys look at me badly, but again i cant stress how much i care about our planet, just dont believe in global warming... (well, i do, but the weather is always changing! so not totally manmade)
We may be speeding it up a little bit, but that just means we'll go away faster.
Sorry for the really jumbled post..
--n |
global warming has been scientifically proven, is been measured. its pretty simple actually if the average temperature of the earth consistently increases that means the earth is getting warmer. now what causes it and and what effects is has are debatable, but global warming is real. let stop denying that fact. |
Lol im not denying the earth is changing temperatures. it always has and always will |
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09/15/2011 03:33:53 PM · #508 |
Originally posted by nB:
Lol im not denying the earth is changing temperatures. it always has and always will |
sorry i read your post too quickly. it just bugs me that people deny that the earth is getting warmer. you either dont respect recorded data or you are delusional. i dont understand why so many people denounce science as if its magic or something. |
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09/15/2011 03:34:11 PM · #509 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by nB:
Lol im not denying the earth is changing temperatures. it always has and always will |
sorry i read your post too quickly. it just bugs me that people deny that the earth is getting warmer. you either dont respect recorded data or you are delusional. i dont understand why so many people denounce science as if its magic or something. |
lol no worries |
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09/15/2011 05:06:35 PM · #510 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by nB:
Lol im not denying the earth is changing temperatures. it always has and always will |
sorry i read your post too quickly. it just bugs me that people deny that the earth is getting warmer. you either dont respect recorded data or you are delusional. i dont understand why so many people denounce science as if its magic or something. |
lols, next thing you will be saying is that a card trick is not a manipulation. |
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09/15/2011 06:32:09 PM · #511 |
...and supposedly once upon a time, a long, long time ago Thiswas the norm in the Arctic.
Perhaps we are coming full circle.
Ray |
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09/15/2011 07:53:29 PM · #512 |
people just dont understand the cycle of life, or in this case the cycle of the WORLD.
think of it as the world goes through its own seasons, except each season takes millions or billions or however many years.
we are TINY, and will be squished by time.
Lol not to be depressing. |
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09/15/2011 08:21:21 PM · #513 |
Originally posted by nB:
people just dont understand the cycle of life, or in this case the cycle of the WORLD.
think of it as the world goes through its own seasons, except each season takes millions or billions or however many years.
we are TINY, and will be squished by time.
Lol not to be depressing. |
Exactly! No one seems to be able to accept the fact that all of the world and everything in it has it's own life cycle. At some point people could become extinct...just a fact of life. |
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09/16/2011 07:38:38 AM · #514 |
Originally posted by ShutterPug:
At some point people could become extinct |
its only a matter of time, but, will the extinction me made made? |
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09/16/2011 01:08:19 PM · #515 |
Originally posted by ShutterPug:
Originally posted by nB:
people just dont understand the cycle of life, or in this case the cycle of the WORLD.
think of it as the world goes through its own seasons, except each season takes millions or billions or however many years.
we are TINY, and will be squished by time.
Lol not to be depressing. |
Exactly! No one seems to be able to accept the fact that all of the world and everything in it has it's own life cycle. At some point people could become extinct...just a fact of life. |
But will we realize that what might have taken another 500 million years, will now only take roughly 5,000 (or less), because of our parasitic involvement?
Not if we continue to make excuses for our behavior(s) because we're too selfish to change for the good of ourselves.
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09/24/2011 09:47:12 PM · #516 |
| As Flash pops up with some random anecdote every 4-6 months to support his belief, it's comforting to note that climate denial may be nearing the end. I'm not sure if too late is better than never, though. |
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09/24/2011 10:27:36 PM · #517 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
As Flash pops up with some random anecdote every 4-6 months to support his belief, it's comforting to note that climate denial may be nearing the end. I'm not sure if too late is better than never, though. |
Wish there was a link or better citation for this ...
Originally posted by Linked Article:
In fact, a document emerged years later showing that the industry coalition's own scientific team had quietly advised it that the basic science of global warming was indisputable. |
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09/24/2011 10:32:39 PM · #518 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Wish there was a link or better citation for this ...
Originally posted by Linked Article:
In fact, a document emerged years later showing that the industry coalition's own scientific team had quietly advised it that the basic science of global warming was indisputable. |
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Viola.
Message edited by author 2011-09-24 22:32:56. |
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09/27/2011 03:44:17 AM · #519 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by ShutterPug:
Originally posted by nB:
people just dont understand the cycle of life, or in this case the cycle of the WORLD.
think of it as the world goes through its own seasons, except each season takes millions or billions or however many years.
we are TINY, and will be squished by time.
Lol not to be depressing. |
Exactly! No one seems to be able to accept the fact that all of the world and everything in it has it's own life cycle. At some point people could become extinct...just a fact of life. |
But will we realize that what might have taken another 500 million years, will now only take roughly 5,000 (or less), because of our parasitic involvement?
Not if we continue to make excuses for our behavior(s) because we're too selfish to change for the good of ourselves. |
No kidding...
Which is preferable-
"Well, we're ending the survivability of our environment because we figured "big deal, was going to happen anyway" or "we've done our best to use our minds to prevent the things we knew were happening."
I find it to be a pretty lame and reprehensible position to say "Well, dems da breaks."
Supposedly humans are all about finding ways around that, but it seems to me history has shown otherwise.... |
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10/21/2011 10:30:24 AM · #520 |
Global warming 'confirmed' by independent study
Originally posted by "article":
"Our biggest surprise was that the new results agreed so closely with the warming values published previously by other teams in the US and the UK," said Prof Muller.
"This confirms that these studies were done carefully and that potential biases identified by climate change sceptics did not seriously affect their conclusions."
...
Funding came from a number of sources, including charitable foundations maintained by the Koch brothers, the billionaire US industrialists, who have also donated large sums to organisations lobbying against acceptance of man-made global warming.
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But they emphasise that anthropogenic global warming (AGW) driven by greenhouse gas emissions is very much in their picture.
"Had we found no global warming, then that would have ruled out AGW," said Prof Muller.
"Had we found half as much, it would have suggested that prior estimates [of AGW] were too large; if we had found more warming, it would have raised the question of whether prior estimates were too low.
"But we didn't; we found that the prior rise was confirmed. That means that we do not directly affect prior estimates."
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10/21/2011 10:58:45 AM · #521 |
| LOL- Global warming deniers' own study proves they've been wrong. Time to eat warm crow. |
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10/24/2011 03:21:38 PM · #522 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
As Flash pops up with some random anecdote every 4-6 months to support his belief, it's comforting to note that climate denial may be nearing the end. I'm not sure if too late is better than never, though. |
If one were to simply re-read posts #4, #7, and #24 - then it should be clear what the issue is. Post #4 by Ron B says that the "cause" is the debate. #7 by olyuzi is challenging individuals to scarifice for the greater good of all by highlighting vehicles, house size and lifestyles choices. Post #24 by GeneralE comments on the population of 6 billion and the eating habits of ingesting animal proteins and their subsequent flatulence impact. That is really what this 6+ year old thread is about. Who's fault is it and what if anything are YOU going to do about it.
I don't think it is man's fault and I'm not going to support elimination of all fossil fuel burning engines accross the entire globe at the expense of billions of people. I will support and do support being good stewards of our land - but likely differ on what that definition includes. As has been posted here numerous times, at what point does one's activity become harmful? Is it at the point of eating animal protein? The point of owning a house? The point of having a lawn? A boat? A Motorcycle? A piece of machinery that provides jobs and a tax base for a community? I have asked before - how big of a house is too big? 1000 square feet? 1200? 1500? How much car is too much? 40 mpg? 30 mpg? 20 mpg? How much meat is too much to eat? 1 cows worth? 2? 4?
Many of the arguments over the last 6 years are nice and all - but really - who's making the decision on what the definition of excess is?
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10/24/2011 04:04:37 PM · #523 |
Originally posted by Flash:
I don't think it is man's fault and I'm not going to support elimination of all fossil fuel burning engines accross the entire globe at the expense of billions of people. |
What the issue WAS is rather different from the sheer ignorance of fact that prompts a person to resurrect this thread every few months with a denial claim to keep it going, and taking exception to several extreme solutions is rather different from denying that the problem exists in the first place and taking responsibility for our role. The thread is, "Humans causing Global warming - solid evidence," and that mountain of evidence has only become stronger over the years, as confirmed by the independent study sponsored by AGW deniers themselves. While any solution is likely to be painful, our children must live with the consequences. Consider carefully the footprints you leave behind, and not just in terms of pollution, for whether we help or hinder the process, our positions will be forever preserved on the internet to the appreciation or shame of our heirs. |
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10/24/2011 04:27:40 PM · #524 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Flash:
I don't think it is man's fault and I'm not going to support elimination of all fossil fuel burning engines accross the entire globe at the expense of billions of people. |
What the issue WAS is rather different from the sheer ignorance of fact that prompts a person to resurrect this thread every few months with a denial claim to keep it going, and taking exception to several extreme solutions is rather different from denying that the problem exists in the first place and taking responsibility for our role. The thread is, "Humans causing Global warming - solid evidence," and that mountain of evidence has only become stronger over the years, as confirmed by the independent study sponsored by AGW deniers themselves. While any solution is likely to be painful, our children must live with the consequences. Consider carefully the footprints you leave behind, and not just in terms of pollution, for whether we help or hinder the process, our positions will be forever preserved on the internet to the appreciation or shame of our heirs. |
So again I ask YOU! How big of a house do you live in? How many vehicles do you own or your family have? What is their mpg by vehicle? Do you have a lawn? A garden? Farmland? Any recreational vehicles? Any family members use gasoline engines for their transportation or yard work or recreational activities? What job do you have to provide for your family? Any investments in companies that use fossil fuel burning engines? Do you eat beef? Any of your family eat beef? Lets assess one by one on the internet your personal level of committment to address what you believe to be a problem for mankind? Or is this simply a "point the finger" at someone else exercise?
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10/24/2011 04:35:18 PM · #525 |
| A useless exercise when you won't even acknowledge the issue. |
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