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02/21/2005 11:03:14 AM · #26 |
I think also the title has a way of throwing the audience off. The clearest example is my Dolphins pic for Irony. The title has little to do with the Ironic aspects of the picture and because of it the voters had a hard time getting past it. In my Separation picture I̢۪ve done almost the same. It has an element in it that draws the viewer to such a degree that I think from the three comments I̢۪ve gotten people are unable to see the true meaning. Simplicity is the best course but I guess I like mind games, to the detriment of my scores. |
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02/21/2005 11:29:15 AM · #27 |
Titling sucks.
I hate it.
My bridge pic is taking a beating, mostly becuase of the title. the comments say so.
I don't want to title my next few entries, but that hurts too from comments on this thread.
title a pic withe the challenge title and that gets whacked for a few points too.
thinking up a title sucks.
I don't read the titles when i vote unless i don't understand the pic's connection to the challenge. even then it doesn't always help.
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02/21/2005 11:48:18 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by jmritz:
I think also the title has a way of throwing the audience off. The clearest example is my Dolphins pic for Irony. The title has little to do with the Ironic aspects of the picture.. |
I'd agree that the title you chose for this entry was far from simplistic, but the very reason I ranked this image highly was for the unusually poised subtlety and irony of that title.
One of the finest of the many forms of irony consists of the construction of discrepancy between expectation and fulfillment (or between appearance and reality). The discrepancy in this image lies between the obvious points of interest (that two-second gist) of registering the evidence of addiction (cigarette, pills) and the disparate direction of the leading title 'Dolphins'.
Even when we ignore the symbolic charge -the dolphin as a token of intelligence- the focus suggested by the title can only be found outside of the pedestrian immediacy of the assorted toxins. This attributes a clearly distinguishable element which takes us beyond the mundane, playfully, lightly and, almost, as an aside.
If this is not irony at its finest, call me Frank.
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02/21/2005 11:48:52 AM · #29 |
I am bemused by how many people seem to think that in some way a picture is somehow "less" if it "requires" a title. Books have titles, movies have titles, CDs have titles, poems have titles, titles are everywhere. Titles are like captions, for this site. Think how many great photographs you have seen in the past that gain impact by being captioned with useful information.
I mean, look at what's happening; we have time-specific "challenges" where we are asked to "interpret" the challenge in our own way. Some of us go out on a limb trying to be creative and metaphorical with our entries, and for us the title is absolutely essential. Without the title, we'd have no way of nudging voters into the correct mindset to receive our image.
When a significant bloc of voters posts that they "don't read titles", what they are telling me, basically, is that they have no interest in even attempting to understand any image that colors outside the lines.
Titles are just one more tool, people. A picture isn't going to win because it has the "best" title, and it won't lose because it has the worst title, but we really ought to give the photographers the courtesy of READING their titles, it only takes a few seconds.
Robt.
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02/21/2005 12:07:22 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
[quote=jmritz]
I think also the title has a way of throwing the audience off. The clearest example is my Dolphins pic for Irony. The title has little to do with the Ironic aspects of the picture.. |
I'm assuming the title had absolutely nothing to do with thew photo, here??? Pardon my ignorance but if so...I love it.
I took a picture of the World Trade Center from a sail boat on a Monday morning at around 10AM, entering the New York Harbor. It was a glorious day and I kept thinking about "all those snckers, at work"..."ha ha ha " and that while I was out, enjoying the breeze, millions of people I couldn't even see were piled in front of me hard at work, so I titled the shot(taken from about a mile and half away from the WTC Towers and downtown.
"A Secretary Reading"
Now that's somewhat unrelated to the shot per se but my mindset might have even lent the photo to "Separation". Meaning Me and my freedom from the rest of the working world. I couldn't have felt more at peace and more distant. That could be as stretch but it works for me.
Message edited by author 2005-02-21 12:10:24. |
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02/21/2005 12:08:54 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by davidx76:
Originally posted by justinbrook:
I judge the entry as 2 parts. Photo and Title. Portfolio titles aren't so important but for challenges they are too me. Untitled images lose 25% score immediatley. |
25%?!? Man that's harsh! From what I recall this is a digital photography site?
Does this mean you might vote an excellent (artisticly) photo that meets the challenge the same as an average photo that only meets the challenge because of the title? |
Yeah 25% is a bit harsh especially challenges like Bridges where a title is not so important. But an excellent photo is an excellent photo so this is not a firm rule I stick too. Plus there are a lot of images that are very similar and a title might be all that seperates them.
Message edited by author 2005-02-21 12:16:53. |
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02/21/2005 12:12:18 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
I am bemused by how many people seem to think that in some way a picture is somehow "less" if it "requires" a title. Books have titles, movies have titles, CDs have titles, poems have titles, titles are everywhere. Titles are like captions, for this site. Think how many great photographs you have seen in the past that gain impact by being captioned with useful information.
I mean, look at what's happening; we have time-specific "challenges" where we are asked to "interpret" the challenge in our own way. Some of us go out on a limb trying to be creative and metaphorical with our entries, and for us the title is absolutely essential. Without the title, we'd have no way of nudging voters into the correct mindset to receive our image.
When a significant bloc of voters posts that they "don't read titles", what they are telling me, basically, is that they have no interest in even attempting to understand any image that colors outside the lines.
Titles are just one more tool, people. A picture isn't going to win because it has the "best" title, and it won't lose because it has the worst title, but we really ought to give the photographers the courtesy of READING their titles, it only takes a few seconds.
Robt. |
This needed to be said, and you said it clearly and with courtesy.
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02/21/2005 12:18:11 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
[quote=jmritz]
I think also the title has a way of throwing the audience off. The clearest example is my Dolphins pic for Irony. The title has little to do with the Ironic aspects of the picture.. |
I'm assuming the title had absolutely nothing to do with thew photo, here??? Pardon my ignorance but if so...I love it.... |
It has everything to do with the photo. The dolphins are IN the photo. They're there.
Regarding your second point: I agree, your choice was probably a stretch, but it is good to stretch sometimes. If we didn't, we might miss actually reaching stuff. :-D
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02/21/2005 12:24:06 PM · #34 |
| I would also like too mention how impressed I am that so many people disagree yet everyone is polite. We all have different views on things and that's what makes a good forum. IMO |
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02/21/2005 12:27:49 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
[quote=zeuszen] [quote=jmritz] I'm assuming the title had absolutely nothing to do with thew photo, here??? Pardon my ignorance but if so...I love it.... |
It has everything to do with the photo. The dolphins are IN the photo. They're there. |
I see them now. Sorry.
Been staring at the screen too long...must be going blind or I need more coffee. |
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02/21/2005 12:28:34 PM · #36 |
I think a title on a contest entry is a necessary evil. A great image with a catchy title will really kick butt in the scoring. The same image with a lackluster title will lose a little something. With a crappy title, it will lose more, but still do well.
Scores on lesser images seem to be more influenced by their titles.
Any image that requires the title to lead you to its point, or to explain the image, is not going to do well in my book. |
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02/21/2005 12:31:39 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by bear_music:
I am bemused by how many people seem to think that in some way a picture is somehow "less" if it "requires" a title. Books have titles, movies have titles, CDs have titles, poems have titles, titles are everywhere. Titles are like captions, for this site. Think how many great photographs you have seen in the past that gain impact by being captioned with useful information.
I mean, look at what's happening; we have time-specific "challenges" where we are asked to "interpret" the challenge in our own way. Some of us go out on a limb trying to be creative and metaphorical with our entries, and for us the title is absolutely essential. Without the title, we'd have no way of nudging voters into the correct mindset to receive our image.
When a significant bloc of voters posts that they "don't read titles", what they are telling me, basically, is that they have no interest in even attempting to understand any image that colors outside the lines.
Titles are just one more tool, people. A picture isn't going to win because it has the "best" title, and it won't lose because it has the worst title, but we really ought to give the photographers the courtesy of READING their titles, it only takes a few seconds.
Robt. |
This needed to be said, and you said it clearly and with courtesy. |
I agree totally. But in the end to win a ribbon one must not be obtuse, or subtle. I’ve found the ‘In Your Face’ well done photograph has the best likelihood of doing well. Clean clear easily seen and comprehended elements that draw the viewer in to look more and see more are the prerequisites. I’ll admit that I’m not always trying to win. I enjoy when I get a comment from someone that they ‘Get It’ and I’ve accomplished my goal. It is not a ribbon but in some ways just as important.
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02/21/2005 12:34:59 PM · #38 |
I would like a compromise which could help everyone, which would be to put the title below the photo and scoring grid.
This would allow those who want to skip the titles to do so, and would require everyone to view the entire photo before voting.
I'd also like to make the photographer's comments available as a popup for those who want to know more about the photo, but that's a different argument : ) |
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02/21/2005 12:36:47 PM · #39 |
I never read the title when voting. The challenge is about the image, not its title. For me the picture must carry the theme. If the only way to understand the theme is to read the title, the picture has failed to do its job. Sorry.
[/url] |
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02/21/2005 12:37:19 PM · #40 |
| I feel that the weight behind a title varies greatly depending on the challenge, clearly a challenge such as architecture or pink should would probably not be overly influenced by titles, where as in challenges such as open challenges, and B&W, a simple title can really help convey the context of the image to the viewer or even convey an invitation for the viewer to use their own imagination, in these instances I find it both harder to come up with titles and more influenced by them when scoring. |
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02/21/2005 12:40:36 PM · #41 |
jmritz,
To win a ribbon, that would be correct. In my case, I'm not out to 'win a ribbon", I'm out to "express myself" mostly. I've won plenty of ribbons in my life. I just enjoy meeting challenges creatively. For me DPC is an intellectual activity, photography is an intellectual activity, and that's how I like it.
If I wanted to do "DPC Norm" photos i could. And in fact, come spring, many of my pictures will be much more mainstream; look at my portfolio. But in the winter, we gets bored....
jejejeâ„¢
Robt.
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02/21/2005 12:46:37 PM · #42 |
I know where your coming from Bear when you talk of winter. ERR!
Have you noticed its snowing? Again!
Message edited by author 2005-02-21 12:47:53. |
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02/21/2005 12:51:20 PM · #43 |
| A well done title can enhance the effect of a good photograph, but a bad title can just as easily destroy a decent picture. Most of the titles on DPC entries are helpful to place the context of the photo. I vote on both title and photo as a single work. |
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02/21/2005 01:02:30 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by justinbrook:
Untitled images lose 25% score immediatley. |
Comments of this ilk make me wonder if indeed the amount of effort put into this exercise is worth it.
Seriously... think about it... A photo deserving of an 8.0 (are rarely seen item in this venue) would automatically drop to 5.5... a bit harsh don't you think!!!
Just my 2 cents (or is that 0.2 X 75%)
Ray |
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02/21/2005 01:07:47 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by justinbrook:
Untitled images lose 25% score immediatley. |
Comments of this ilk make me wonder if indeed the amount of effort put into this exercise is worth it.
Seriously... think about it... A photo deserving of an 8.0 (are rarely seen item in this venue) would automatically drop to 5.5... a bit harsh don't you think!!!
Just my 2 cents (or is that 0.2 X 75%)
Ray |
Read the other posts. I already said 25% is indeed harsh.I made my point that I think titles are important though ;) |
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02/21/2005 01:13:29 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by justinbrook:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
[quote=justinbrook] Untitled images lose 25% score immediatley. |
Read the other posts. I already said 25% is indeed harsh.I made my point that I think titles are important though ;) |
Sorry, was too busy reading and responding to this one... Guess that's how things are when one gets bogged down looking at topic headings... we tend to get sidetracked and forget about the primary objectives of our endeavours.
Ray
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02/21/2005 01:15:12 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by Kathy:
Often, it is the title which prompts me to click on a picture for a larger view. There have been several which had fascinating elements in them, that I might not have caught had the title not been there. So, here's a vote to choose a title well. Thanks, Kathy |
Took the words right out of my mouth! :)
~Heidi~
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02/21/2005 01:16:23 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by jmritz:
I know where your coming from Bear when you talk of winter. ERR!
Have you noticed its snowing? Again! |
I don't know about Bear,,, but I can tell you that I noticed ... and now I am off to fire up the snowblower. Ahh the joys of living in the country and having a 90 foot driveway.
Ray |
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02/21/2005 01:22:07 PM · #49 |
| I really doubt that most people read the titles. I get ripped all the time...and have to send clarification emails saying something like, "I don't know why you gave me a 4...read the title!" And then I'll responses back that say something like, "Whoops...my mistake, I didn't read the title. I changed my score." It's frustrating. True creativity is multi-dimensional. Titles can play a very important roll in certain pictures. |
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02/21/2005 01:23:05 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
I don't know about Bear,,, but I can tell you that I noticed ... and now I am off to fire up the snowblower. Ahh the joys of living in the country and having a 90 foot driveway.
Ray |
90 foot, wow. Thats bigger than my town. Want an extra house guest. hehe |
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