Two very similar photos, very different scores.

08/27/2002 12:05:54 PM · #1

My photo, Too Fine a Point, came in at about 5.7 or so, while Gordon's very good v .00 came in at about 6.3.

Let me state up front that I am in no way saying mine is better than, as good as, or even worse than Gordon's. With that said, I'm curious to find out what about his photo makes it so much more appealing to the masses than mine. They seem to be very similar photos, at least to me.

Any thoughts?

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

08/27/2002 12:15:05 PM · #2

These two photos scored similarly with me but Gordon's had the edge:

It was the form of the angled line next to those two perfect circles which just kept pulling me back to it - and the really unusually low position within the frame with all that white space above. Just clicked.

But both of yours were in my top 10. Gordon's scored 10, yours was an 8, close to a 9.

I thought both rocked and would love to be able to say I had taken either of them :)

mci

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

08/27/2002 12:22:53 PM · #3

Originally posted by welcher:
Let me state up front that I am in no way saying mine is better than, as good as, or even worse than Gordon's. With that said, I'm curious to find out what about his photo makes it so much more appealing to the masses than mine. They seem to be very similar photos, at least to me.

Any thoughts?

Welcher -

I scored your an 8 and Gordon's a 7. They both had nice lighting and angles, but I liked the composition and subject more in yours. I thought the shavings really added a textural punch that Gordon's lacked. I also liked the more subtle angle in yours as opposed to the nearly vertical one in his. I'm a sucker for shallow depth of field, so both of these photos appealed to me there. I think I may have also liked the more orangey color of yours as opposed to the yellow in Gordon's. Orange, as odd as it sounds to most people, is my favorite color. I also don't really like that really sharp shadow that I think caused Gordon to get that administrator's note. It seems very artificial and weird to me.

Anyway, both of them are great shots, but I gave yours the edge. I think trying to find out why other people didn't is going to be like pulling teeth. People are just different, I guess.

Take care.

HBunch

HP PhotoSmart 315

08/27/2002 12:24:42 PM · #4

I had actually given Too Fine a point 1 score higher than v.00. In Too fine a point, I liked how you could see the whole pencil, unlike in v.00 where the far ends of the pencils looked washed out. I think that was my deciding factor in my score. I think people may have liked the contrast in the point the 2 erasers in the v.00 photo. Don't know if that helped or not, but there was my opinion.

hokie

Nikon D2X

08/27/2002 12:59:17 PM · #5

I wonder how much the title of Gordons played into the voting?

I know people say they don't vote with the titles in mind(eerrrbullshitmmmmmm) but Gordons was an interesting play on the theme.

08/27/2002 01:04:05 PM · #6

I didn't get the significance of his title. Fill me in.

Originally posted by hokie:
I wonder how much the title of Gordons played into the voting?

I know people say they don't vote with the titles in mind(eerrrbullshitmmmmmm) but Gordons was an interesting play on the theme.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

08/27/2002 01:04:43 PM · #7

I didn't even notice the titles. I tend to judge on the photo itself with reference to the title only as an afterthought.

Only after my voting decisions had been made did I look at Gordon's title and realise what it reflected - the shapes within his photo.

hokie

Nikon D2X

08/27/2002 01:16:35 PM · #8

Grrr...I can't remember what I voted on these and the site isn't showing me my score for some reason.

Both are clean and both affect me the same. Probably about a 6 or 7 if I was guessing. I scored the photos that used pencils in an imaginative way higher versus technically well done photos.

08/27/2002 01:19:42 PM · #9

In order to be able to reference my scores quickly I save the page out as a file, choosing the "Web page, complete" option from the IE Save As dialog box.

This saves photos too, in a separate folder, so the page can be viewed offline without problem.

focus

Canon EOS-20D

08/27/2002 02:46:57 PM · #10

Welcher:

Going back to your original post, I was also somewhat baffled by the voting. I think my picture (#49) was more technically difficult and visually appealing than #10. But then I am humbled by the fact that drewmedia (an administrator here) had his pencil photo rated 5.358 and can in #90.

There is something seriously wrong with people that are voting "1" and "2" on pictures that meet the challenge, are technically correct and visually appealing. I am beginning to wonder if there is some pattern to these people.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

08/27/2002 02:52:36 PM · #11

Well, I didn't want to foment a photo war! I'm not baffled by the voting, as, by definition, Gordon's photo was better than mine. When 240 votes are cast, and the difference between the photos is that great, it's hard to argue with the results.

My post wasn't so much to say "hey, mine should be better than it is", but rather to ask "why isn't mine considered better than it is".

Originally posted by focus:
Welcher:

Going back to your original post, I was also somewhat baffled by the voting. I think my picture (#49) was more technically difficult and visually appealing than #10. But then I am humbled by the fact that drewmedia (an administrator here) had his pencil photo rated 5.358 and can in #90.

There is something seriously wrong with people that are voting "1" and "2" on pictures that meet the challenge, are technically correct and visually appealing. I am beginning to wonder if there is some pattern to these people.

* This message has been edited by the author on 8/27/2002 2:55:40 PM.

hokie

Nikon D2X

08/27/2002 02:59:43 PM · #12

Originally posted by welcher:

My post wasn't so much to say "hey, mine should be better", but rather to ask "why isn't mine considered better".

I saw that I voted your's a 6 and Gordons a 7. Now I remember why. Gordon had a much lower angle on his pencils..almost impossibly low. which leads me to believe he elevated the pencils to emphasize the "v.00" shape on the ends.

Anyway..that little extra angle made me give his one more point. I am a sucker for dramatic angles.

* This message has been edited by the author on 8/27/2002 2:58:46 PM.

HBunch

HP PhotoSmart 315

08/27/2002 03:10:30 PM · #13

Technically correct, and visually apealing are both opinionated aspects. Technically correct means so many different things. You may have a "technically correct" focus on your photo, but half the people aren't going to like it and half the people will.
I have some kind of obsessive compulsive disorder or somthing, where if things just don't seem right, it really bothers me. I'll give an example. The photo of the Muse of a Photographer, with the notebook and the glass of wine in the pencil challenge, was really nice. I liked it. However, it really really bothered me. The way the photo was at an angle, the paper was turned to the same way a right handed person would turn paper to write. However, the writing in the notebook was on the left side (typical of a lefty) and the pencil was laid down with the tip facing a north west angle (also typical of a lefty). So for some reason, although the photo was lit well, in focus, and "technically correct" I wanted to scream. LOL.
Not picking on the photographer at all. It WAS technically good, and I noted that in my comment, but I pondered it all week. I forced my mother to actually rate the photo, so I don't even know the score it got from me. LOL.
It's like the saying. In marriage, if the sex is good, it's really not a big deal. But if the sex is bad...it means everything.
Meaning, I think the "bad" aspects of a photo are more predominent than the good ones.
Now, everyone KNOWS that this doesn't generally affect my opinions. You can read my comments, but I believe it is the way a lot of people score, and then move on, without even looking at the good aspects.
Sorry for babbling. I'm lonely today. lol. my son didn't want to play with me today cause we had made a toilet paper tube binoculars, and he's "bird watching".
Take care.
~Heather~

08/27/2002 03:16:29 PM · #14

Originally posted by hbunch7187:
I'm lonely today. lol. my son didn't want to play with me today cause we had made a toilet paper tube binoculars, and he's "bird watching".
Take care.
~Heather~

Kewte.
:)
Kavey

PS How can you be lonely with DPC??!!! :D :D :D

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

08/27/2002 03:39:00 PM · #15

Some thoughts on my picture:

I took quite a few and looked at intermediate versions before I went
back and shot the one that became my final entry.

I'd tried different combinations of pencils, different layouts and
shooting angles etc. Played with varying the depth of field, white
balance settings and lighting angles.

I went for a very overhead lighting to minimise the shadows in the image.
Quite a few people really disliked the very sharp shadow, especially under
the erasers, even though it is entirely natural, from a bright overhead
light source (flash gun). It is not a result of a crop on the image,
just harsh lighting.

I went for most depth of field I could get, but still wanted the pencils
to fade into the distance - curved white paper made that possible to
have the 'infinite' canvas background, with the macro focus on the pencil
ends, rather than using a hyperfocal approach on the middle of the
pencils which resulted in a less sharp point and more effective
field depth, which I didn't like so much.

Layout and 'weight' got quite a lot of consideration, with the
whole plane of the pencils being put on the lower third horizontal,
and the point and erasers being placed to hit the lower third intersections
with the verticals to give a more balanced composition. I know quite
a lot of people don't like lots of negative space but I do :) I
tried different angles, with the intersection of the far ends of
the pencils in the upper third point, but didn't like the effect as
much, as it started to 'just look like pencils' and wanted the
more end on view to make the .00 of the title make sense. The
point on the left acts as a starting point (sic!) for the image as
you track into the shot from left to right and back to the strong
red circles as a resting point for your eye and strong colour
counter-point to the white and light yellow of the rest of the shot.

Heather asked about the title - it is:

v .00 or version <point> ohh ohh.

This is reflected in the shot with the V shape of the pencils,
the point (.) on the left of the image and the 00 on the right as
the end of the erasers. Not great as play on words go, but this
certainly wasn't the first version of this image!

I also quite deliberately de-emphasised the writing on the side of
the pencil as I thought it being out of focus just drew attention
to that fact.

I put quite a bit of thought into how this one went together and
am resonably pleased with the result. If I could, I'd have airbrushed
out the darker areas at the top of the image, to give a more complete
white canvas but obviously that isn't allowed for here.

Not sure if that helps answer the question, but it maybe gives a bit of
the background into my thinking on this shot. But after all this rambling,
it's still just a shot of 3 pencils, one of which I'd sharpened...

aripps

Canon PowerShot G2

08/27/2002 03:42:53 PM · #16

I may be giving different scores for similar photos. I noticed this on the last challenge. I was scoring the pictures at one sitting, when I saw very similar pictures and thought I had given a higher score on the first one. I was becoming exhausted and this was reflected on the subjective part of the process. I was wondering, what or who determines the sequence the photographs are presented. I assumed it was by time of submitting the picture. I submitted my entry about 15 minutes before the deadline. My photo was somewhere in the middle. Is it possible the entries presented in the begining have an advantage? I now will evaluate in groups to prevent this from happening.

ClubJuggle

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

08/27/2002 03:45:14 PM · #17

Originally posted by aripps:
I may be giving different scores for similar photos. I noticed this on the last challenge. I was scoring the pictures at one sitting, when I saw very similar pictures and thought I had given a higher score on the first one. I was becoming exhausted and this was reflected on the subjective part of the process. I was wondering, what or who determines the sequence the photographs are presented. I assumed it was by time of submitting the picture. I submitted my entry about 15 minutes before the deadline. My photo was somewhere in the middle. Is it possible the entries presented in the begining have an advantage? I now will evaluate in groups to prevent this from happening.

From The FAQ:

In what order do entries appear on the voting page?
To help keep the competition as fair as possible, entries appear in a random order on the voting page. Each voter sees the entries in a different order. This ensures all participants an equal opportunity to receive votes and comments.

-Terry

FranziskaLang

Nikon D100

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Nikon

08/27/2002 04:30:45 PM · #18

gordon, thanks for that lengthy description, it was very interesting to see all the thought that went into your photo.

welcher, as for comparing the photos, i gave gordon's a 10 and yours an 8, so i obviously liked both. gordon's got more points because it looked just a little more unusual, more than 'just a pen'. technically, both yours and his were excellent.

btw, just wanted to add that i think this is an excellent discussion on exploring the two photos in comparison and more details ... thanks for starting the thread, welcher.

* This message has been edited by the author on 8/27/2002 4:30:33 PM.