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01/27/2005 05:05:17 PM · #26 |
well, to fight against this, and encourage commenting, every time you get a harsh comment/critique on a photo send the commenter a PM and THANK them.
Don't explain, don't argue, don't try to convince them.
Just say: thank you for your opinion, I will try to take this kind of perspective into consideration next time.
If you enter a photo into a challenge, it is, obviously, a given that you (at least for the time it took to enter it) liked that photo and hoped other might as well.
Look at it as painful way of smoothing, of polishing off the worst rough edges.
Enjoy and don't take this too seriously.
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01/27/2005 05:10:23 PM · #27 |
Personnaly, I value comments a lot more than the vote result. If someone took the extra effort to cooment on your picture, it's because you have achieved to capture the viewers attention. So please comment my work and be as harsh as I am towards my-self. Everytime I can benifit from a tip, I'm thankfull that I've found this web site.
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01/27/2005 05:14:06 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by guroos:
If you stopped voting because you recieved a PM after a comment would you stopped posting in forums if someone disagreed with one of your posts? |
Nope, but you might have the wrong idea here...it is not just the one PM, I don't need to justify my opinion on a photo or a piece of written work. I have an opinion and I try to be fair, if I want to criticise something, I try to be constructive. I never state, 'I don't like it so it gets 1'...
I have been using 35mm SLRs for years and a digicam for 4 years, I am no pro, but I know what I like. I try to be constructive in comments, but some ppl just lose it when you comment. To quote a well known saying, to all those who PM crap at me...'if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen!' |
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01/27/2005 05:17:13 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by The Four Bears:
I'm beginning to wonder whether it's worth the hassle! |
Some people here bruise like ripe peaches. Leave honest comments just like you are doing now and to hell with the nasty pm's. Photos are here to be evaluated by peers. If people don't like it, they can go elsewhere.
Also, some people have the "American Idol" syndrome. Mom and Dad tell them they can sing (take above average photos) when they really can't. They show up, catterwall for 20 seconds (submit a few pictures) and are sent packing (get a low score). They leave, all insensed that pros (the general DPC population) can't spot talent when they see it. Not saying that most of us here are pros, but many have a good idea for what is good photography and what isn't.
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01/27/2005 05:31:05 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Check your profile, if you have given more comments than you have recived, good on you. If not suck it up and get busy. |
Uh, oh. I had given up on that- mostly for lack of time (I've received an average of 50 comments on each of my last 10 entries). I'm wondering if I'd be better off concentrating on Critique Club comments rather than the "regular" type. I try not to bruise the peaches, but it's hard to tell someone, "This didn't work at all. Try again." |
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01/27/2005 05:46:33 PM · #31 |
I am relatively new to this site, and so has not figured out all the ethical intricacies yet.
Suppose someone leaves a comment which either shows that the author did not get the point of the photo or expresses an opinion with which I tend to disagree. Should I send a polite PM to this person right away risking to prompt his/her irritation and also violating anonymity of my photo, or should I wait till the end of the voting period, but then it's kinda late and the interest in discussing it further wanes? |
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01/27/2005 06:26:37 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
You got that right, fellow bear... I'm currently mostly just commenting on pictures I've scored well. Anything that I tell people exactly why they didn't do so well, IMO, is just asking for grief...
Robt. |
I am saddened that you are thinking in that manner, because I for one rather enjoyed your comments. I can assure you sir that the critique you provided did NOT fall on deaf ears, and that I hastened to put this newly found knowledge to good use.
I would therefore urge you to reconsider and continue to provide some most needed instructions and guidance to the novices like myself.
Ray |
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01/27/2005 06:35:30 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
I try not to bruise the peaches, but it's hard to tell someone, "This didn't work at all. Try again." |
you'd be surprised at what you can learn when you figure out how to do this ;-) |
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01/27/2005 06:39:51 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
I try not to bruise the peaches, but it's hard to tell someone, "This didn't work at all. Try again." |
Considering what you have accomplished on this site Mr. Scalvert, I would wear any "bruise" obtained from you as a badge of honour. Seriously, anytime you wish to comment on anything I have done, please feel free to do so... I can only gain from it.
Ray |
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01/27/2005 06:58:52 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by ltsimring:
I am relatively new to this site, and so has not figured out all the ethical intricacies yet.
Suppose someone leaves a comment which either shows that the author did not get the point of the photo or expresses an opinion with which I tend to disagree. Should I send a polite PM to this person right away risking to prompt his/her irritation and also violating anonymity of my photo, or should I wait till the end of the voting period, but then it's kinda late and the interest in discussing it further wanes? |
Everyone who votes an image below what you think it's worth has an opinion with which you are at odds. Every time someone doesn't "get" the point of the photo it's a sure sign that you didn't make it clear enough, for this person at least. The process you are describing is essentially an attempt to influence the votes of negative commenters by explaining the photograph; otherwise, why worry about making the response before the voting ends?
I've occasionally responded to challenge commenters to one of my images, during the challenge, but I've tried to go out of my way to indicate it's NOT an attempt to change their vote. It's probably a bad practice anyway, it's too easy to misinterpret your intentions.
Robt.
Message edited by author 2005-01-27 18:59:54.
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01/30/2005 10:58:42 PM · #36 |
I commented on one challenge entry that it looked a little dark on my monitor. Got a PM from the guy just saying "Get a new monitor".
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01/30/2005 11:20:31 PM · #37 |
So far I've only had one or two PM's from people trying to explain their photographs. Whenever I give a less than glowing comment I try very hard to find at least one good thing to reference in the photo so I might tell someone that their crop is not great and their lighting isn't helping the picture, but the idea behind it was good, or something along those lines. That way maybe it doesn't sting quite as bad.
I've gotten some semi-harsh comments on a couple of my entries (deservedly so because I've rushed a few and they sucked!) and although I would never PM someone and complain about their comment I do think it's nice to use as much tact as possible.
It's not cool that so many people are afraid to comment because they might get their heads bitten off :( I guess one thing we could do with PM's like that is just chalk it up to maturity ;)
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01/30/2005 11:24:25 PM · #38 |
| I have just started re-entering challenges and have been very impressed with the feedback, positive and negative from everyone posting. It didn't used to be that way...I'm very happy to those who have commented espescially negatively to help improve my photography ability. Like someone said, put the bag over your head and keep helping us all out. |
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01/30/2005 11:29:58 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by The Four Bears:
I commented on one challenge entry that it looked a little dark on my monitor. Got a PM from the guy just saying "Get a new monitor". |
To which you respond: "Get some manners."
Message edited by author 2005-01-30 23:30:46. |
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01/30/2005 11:43:33 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by NovaTiger:
Originally posted by The Four Bears:
I commented on one challenge entry that it looked a little dark on my monitor. Got a PM from the guy just saying "Get a new monitor". |
To which you respond: "Get some manners." |
I was actually going to respond slightly more forecfully 'cos I hate bad manners but I decided not to lower myself to his level.
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01/31/2005 12:13:43 AM · #41 |
Well let me start by saying that I am a novice. I just started to dabble with photography last October.
I entered my first challenge, Best of 2004. So far I have received approximately 325 votes, 9 comments. I find it interesting that out of 531 submissions, only 325 people have voted. Why do people enter if they can't take the time to vote?
As far as giving comments, I have given a few, I don't feel that I am at the level to critque every photo I see, but I do give my oppinion if someone asks.
When it comes to receiving, I want the good with the bad. I am trying to get better at taking good shots. I do not get angry if someones gives me a negative comment as long as they give me a pointer on how to make it better.
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01/31/2005 12:41:44 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by radiman:
Originally posted by The Four Bears:
Originally posted by radiman:
But it would be nice to get some feedback. |
Make sure you tick the box that says you would like an indepth critique from the critique club. There are always some that don't get through due to the high volume but if you're lucky you'll get a good honest appraisal of your photo.
On that subject, joining the critique club is a great way of giving something back to the site. I'm still learning and I've found that doing an indepth critique on someone else's image really helps you learn about your own technique. |
Oh yeah I clicked that. How long does that usually take after the challenge is over. I'm not in a rush, just curious.
I guess I am not doing too bad vote wise (an even 6.0). Maybe I'd get more if I was on the extreme side, if my picture was extremely good or extremely bad. |
The images that have requested critiques from the critique club are placed on a list. The CC members are randomly assigned from this list, one at a time. The commenting starts after the voting is done, and lasts while the winners are on the home page. At that point, any that did not get assigned are purged from the list to make room for the next challenge. If you do not receive a critique within a week after winners are announced your image was not assigned and will not get one; that is unless one of the CC members decide to make a CC comment on one of your photos on their own -- as has happened once for me after a forum discussion with the individual.
Due to the large number of images that are in the list to be critiqued, and the small number of active CC members, only a small percentage of the images receive critiques. More active CC members are needed. I am not a member of the CC, but it is a goal for the year. ;)
A couple of forum threads that are very informative about the CC now, and what it is likely to become in the future, "What is the Critique Club?" and "Critique Club: Proposed Restructure".
David
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01/31/2005 12:48:08 AM · #43 |
hey man,
i got 1 of your comments that does not have anything nicy nicy in it or anything bad it just says it like it is.
so i'm thanking u too ofter ppl. don't let me know why i'm right in the middle (ITOs) i was glad that some1 was willing to not be mean but to point out what was there and vote fairly.
thank you "The Four Bears"
_brando_ |
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01/31/2005 12:55:40 AM · #44 |
| I have only sent one negative PM, ever. It was to a person who commented about my subject, not my photo. Actually, it was worded so that perhaps, maybe, if I squinted my eyes just so, I would have been able to make it about my photo, but the implication targeted my subject. I really wish that the person would have kept it to him/herself. Rip my photography skills to shreds if you must, but leave my subjects (my daughter in this case) alone. |
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01/31/2005 01:18:31 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by The Four Bears:
I'm beginning to wonder whether it's worth the hassle! |
I appreciate any and all comments received from anyone. Not only do I appreciate them, I reply on them to improve myself. If everyone who made the effort to give an honest review stopped giving comments, I would be lost. Thanks to you and those like you, Hope you decide to stick with it.
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01/31/2005 05:07:55 AM · #46 |
Is it worth the hassle?
Most Definitely!!!
I'll admit, I've made plenty of bone-head and useless comments. But, when I started taking the time to really look at an image to 1) try to appreciate it myself, 2) try to appreciate what the photographer attempted, and 3) understand the image, I found that I was actually learning something.
I find the discipline required to compose an honest and tactful comment contributes as much to my growth as a photographer as actually composing images.
You do NOT have to be eloquent or educated. Just try to leave comments in a manner you would like to receive them. And be mindful that, just the same way some of your images won't register with a viewer, some of your comments won't register with their recipients. All you can do is just let it go and move on. Don't get stressed out and caught up in it. The only real mistake you can make is to quit trying... |
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01/31/2005 05:57:49 AM · #47 |
| If one can't accept constructive criticism, well you are in the wrong place. This is what this site is all about. I love to receive more comments than I get, the good with the bad. For those who take offence - lighten up, it's not personal , just one persons opinion of your photograph ! |
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01/31/2005 06:02:06 AM · #48 |
The large majority of my comments are basically negative - and yet I don't think i have ever recieved a PM angrily disputing my opinions. Mostly, I get a few thankyous, and a couple of friendly disagreements - but definitely friendly. I don't think one can ever be too careful to be polite in comments - especially negative ones. Also, never forget, that there are some very young people, even kids, submitting here.
But mainly I repeat what Skip said (you should put this in your bio Skip): the greatest mistake you can make is to stop trying.
E |
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01/31/2005 07:47:06 AM · #49 |
I always vote on my 5 lowest scored photos on a challange. I feel I owe it to the photographer. As you can guess it's not always an easy task trying to explain a 1 in a possitve light. So I gave up sugar coating it. I simply tell the truth. I try to be polote but honest. If they don't like my comment or can't take the critique who cares. The worst they can do is send me a mean email or leave a negative on one of my shots. But in the voting the photographer is hidden and they will still give me a 10. I feel that hidding and not giving your full and honest opinion in a comment is just as bad if not worse than leaving a nice one just to please the crowd. DPC is a place of learning and if the teacher gives an A just to keep you quite you will never learn from your mistakes. So give me my F tell me what I did wrong and lets move on... Sorry about the rant...
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01/31/2005 08:56:12 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by BradP:
It's worth it, just put the bag over your head!
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Which is equivalent to ticking the box in your profile so your name is no longer shown with your comment during the voting. That will avoid nasty PM's during the voting (.... you might still get them later ). |
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