Photojournalism Ethics: Example - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 55-200mm f/4.5-5.6 II USM

01/27/2005 07:48:20 AM · #27

Let me just sneak in for a second to say that this is a great discussion...I think when we start talking about photographs that 'witness' universal pain, suffering and even humiliation we are getting into different territory than a small town paper publishing a photo of a fat kid. By the way, John...that Tuba Boy photo is absolutely beautiful...great work.

The Nachtwey site is blowing me away...any more photojournalistic nuggets out there? I'm very uninformed...

orussell

Canon EOS Rebel T6s

01/27/2005 08:19:10 AM · #28

Saw a documentary on Nachtwey a couple of nights ago. From the way he is depicted and the way he comes across, he appears to be a genuinely selfless person. He actually seems at odds with himself (feeling guilty even) for being so successful at photographing all the horror and autrocity which he does.

Canon EF 55-200mm f/4.5-5.6 II USM

01/27/2005 08:50:47 AM · #29

Yes, that's my sense of him also. A remarkably humble man, given his considerable fame.

Robt.

orussell

Canon EOS Rebel T6s

01/27/2005 08:58:00 AM · #30

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

I also saw a documentary on Shelby Lee Adams who is portrayed as stereotyping his subjects, mainly poor people of Appalachia, as hillbillies and profitting from their misery. He's been accused of staging shots to this end.

lwkimages

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/27/2005 09:20:17 AM · #31

At risk of displaying my naivete, doesn't the question of a release come in here? If you got tuba boy to sign one, would that make a difference?

01/27/2005 09:29:01 AM · #32

Shelby Adams' work could hardly be further in spirit from Nachtwey's, given that they both shoot people. There's in fact a palpable sense that he is carefully posing his people and staging his scenes. Dorothea Lange did this also. So did Walker Evans. In fact, it's basically unavoidable when working with these people, one cannot imagine doing candid photography of backwoods folks with an intense suspicion of strangers and a deep sense of independence and privacy.

Nachtwey is almost always working in the heart of disasters, wars, famines, plagues, all conditions in which people are reduced to a level of non-humanity in their existence, and the presence of a photographer is not a matter of even passing importance in their lives. Shelby Adams, on the other hand, is going inside the real lives of real people, and is only able to do so because he comes from their stock, is one of them, basically.

Is he "stereotyping" his subjects? That's hard to answer. For one thing, stereotypes exist because they are generally true. These people do dress like this, they do look like that, they do live in these places and drive these vehicles. The stereotyping, arguably, exists in the eyes of the viewers who see through their own filters, who place their own conceptual overlays on these images. Most of us aren't comfortable with the idea that this sort of poverty exists in our country, and to call these images "stereotypical" is in a sense to deny their reality.

I don't know, I'm not that familiar with his work and certainly not that familiar with his people, but he's not the first photographer to have had such charges leveled against him by a long shot. A long time ago, however, I had a roommate for 4 years in San Diego who was from Appalachia. Eventually he went home (he was ex-Navy) and when I was on a cross-country shoot I went to his county to look him up. I was never able to find him because nobody believed I meant him no harm. This was deep in the hollows, and it was a scary place for me to be. I definitely was not welcome there.

For whatever that's worth...

Robt.

01/27/2005 09:29:02 AM · #33

Yeah, Shelby Lee Adams makes the Tuba Boy photo look like a glamour portrait. His photos are absolutely amazing, but certainly are disturbing in the way that his subjects are presented. I see such a condescending dehumanization of his subjects in his photos and the way they are propped, I find it disturbing...in an eery way, it reminds me of the way that the Nazi regime would speak of the handicapped and treat them as animals...

I don't wish to judge his motives, but I am disturbed by what I see...

Edit: to provide proper context, I should mention that my post was written before I saw bear_music's...interesting perspective

Message edited by author 2005-01-27 09:33:13.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

01/27/2005 09:42:40 AM · #34

Yah.. Perspectives is what makes this place so interesting. I certainly wouldn't discount yours; for all I know Shelby Lee Adams is exactly what these people say he is. But for myself, I look at the images as images and if I find them uncomfortable to view I look inside myself for the reason why.

How many of you have studied the work of Diane Arbus? Now, SHE knows how to make people uncomfortable about how they view other people. Some of her images are impossible to look at without cringing (for me at least) and yet each of her subjects was an intelligent (if "bizarre" by "our" standards) human being, and each one posed willingly, aware of the nature of her work and what was to become of the images she made of them. There's a glorious defiance in that... Back in the 60's I was friends with a carnival worker and spent some time hanging out with the "freaks"; it was a profoundly enlightening experience.

Robt.

cghubbell

Nikon D300

01/27/2005 09:50:13 AM · #35

I believe that photojournalism at its purest would accurately reflect the big picture in an unbiased way. In reality, you cannot practice an expressive art form without biasing the work to your personal beliefs. In journalism, you also have another layer or two in writing / editing which may or may not reflect the photographer's view, or the unbiased view.

It seems that a photojournalist would need to be evaluated differently than a photographer because their ethics have more of a bearing due to the context their work is shown in. I believe that the media in general has abandonded traditional journalism ethics in favor of mass appeal. My observation is that most combat journalists would prefer to cover the horrors more than the heroes. Both deserve coverage, but only one gets consistent attention.

Regarding Tuba-boy, I think an innate talent was displayed. You mastered a decisive moment effectively. It was probably a fleeting moment that most people missed. I don't see any innacuracies or biases in that photo. The boy or his parents are accountable for his weight, and he chose to be in a public display... Even practiced for it.

The question I have is this. If an average weight person were cast identically to tuba-boy (and captured in the same manner) I think the photo would still have very significant appeal. Sure, the boy's weight contributes to the impact, but I don't think his weight carries all the appeal by any stretch. So, in the case of an average weight person, would you still have the same reservations? Would it still carry a stigma of exploitation? I believe it would not, but I respect that there may be a wide spectrum of opinions on this.

01/27/2005 09:54:22 AM · #36

IMO, if he weren't obese the picture would not be offensive in any way. From the subject's perspective, I mean. So I'm with you on that one.

Robt.

01/27/2005 10:47:29 AM · #37

Originally posted by bear_music:

IMO, if he weren't obese the picture would not be offensive in any way. From the subject's perspective, I mean. So I'm with you on that one.

Robt.

True...good point, but it doesn't negate the validity of deciding against publishing it.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/27/2005 10:57:58 AM · #38

Didn't say it did... Still John's call. But funny faces go over fine, pretty much.

Robt.

lwkimages

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

01/27/2005 11:07:09 AM · #39

Originally posted by lenkphotos:

At risk of displaying my naivete, doesn't the question of a release come in here? If you got tuba boy to sign one, would that make a difference?

I know I'm repeating myself..., but wouldn't a release make all the difference in the world?

I personally feel it would be unethical to publish ANY photo of an identifiable person - good, bad, or ugly - wihout permission. ...And, to me, permission should be premised on full disclosure of how that image will be used. Is this an oversimplification of the issue here??

cghubbell

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

01/27/2005 11:09:55 AM · #40

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

Originally posted by bear_music:
IMO, if he weren't obese the picture would not be offensive in any way. From the subject's perspective, I mean. So I'm with you on that one.

Robt.

True...good point, but it doesn't negate the validity of deciding against publishing it.

I wasn't in any way suggesting that John's decision was invalid. On the contrary I respect his ability to stick to his personal values despite having what I would consider to be an outstanding image that clearly shows his abilities.

What I'm suggesting is that I have a different perspective on the ethics of that situation. To me, the only reason for restraint is that it may not be considered politically correct solely because of the obesity. I think the role obesity plays in this image is so low that I would not feel the need for restraint. I completely respect John for making his own call and sticking with it. I just wanted to contribute an alternate view to the discussion because I enjoy exploring the issue.

01/27/2005 11:33:34 AM · #41

Lenk,

It'shard to imagine any situation in which a photojournalist is plying his or her trade in which a model release WOULD be required. Model releases relate to use of the image for a commerical purpose. Photojournalism falls under the protection of the first amendment. A photojournalist (or his paper/magazine) may sometimes get sued, but the suits are rarely succesful except with some outer-fringes journalism, you know the kind I mean.

Robt.

01/27/2005 11:36:15 AM · #42

Hubbell, I got that part; I thought you might be thinking that *I* was in disagreement with JOHN, based on what you posted...

We're on the same wavelength. Except I'm not sure "PC" enters into it, except to the extent it's PC not to egregiously embarass someone, anyone.

Robt.

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

01/27/2005 11:36:33 AM · #43

cghubbell:

Sorry, my thoughts were incomplete...I completely agree with you. I began a longer post in reply to your (perhaps rhetorically intended) question of "Would it still carry a stigma of exploitation?" but cut it short without completing my idea.

I was going to offer an example such as was mentioned earlier, which was publishing a candid photo of somebody slipping/tripping...I don't see much wrong with this, but the context changes if the person has a deformity in his leg or if it's a girl using a cane.

I understood the way your question was worded as placing a negative connotation on the word "stigma", as if to say that there shouldn't be this stigma of exploitation as long as the subject matter is worthy of publication in and of itself. I opine that perhaps it's ethical to show restraint, even if the stigma is unnecessary or unfounded. I didn't mean to imply that you don't feel the same way, however.

Message edited by author 2005-01-27 11:37:48.

Kavey

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

01/27/2005 11:42:32 AM · #44

Originally posted by nsbca7:

I don't think publishing such a picture would have hurt anyone's feelings and thus would not have been unethical.

Personally, I don't think one can say that publishing something that hurts someone's feelings is unethical in every case. It's more complicated than that. There are all sorts of additional factors in play. For example:-

Is the subject of an image doing something wrong or illegal?
(Publishing a story about a man convicted of paedophilia might hurt his feelings but, assuming it's not written in such a way as to incite attack, it's hardly unethical to report the case)

Is the subject's privacy being invaded?
(I'd think I'd have a lot more reason to be upset if someone took an image of me naked in my own home by planting a hidden camera or something than if I sunbathed naked on a public beach)

Anyway, it's certainly a witty image though it falls down a little for me because it's not obvious in the image that the sign says the same thing on both sides.... good luck in the competition you entered.

01/27/2005 11:45:09 AM · #45

I'm not too big on the first image with the guy and the sign...It's not that interesting to me. Tuba Boy, that's another story.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

01/27/2005 12:24:32 PM · #46

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

The Nachtwey site is blowing me away...any more photojournalistic nuggets out there? I'm very uninformed...

I really enjoy Blue Eyes Magazine. The site is maybe a bit difficult to navigate but there are some fantastic nuggets hidden away in there and it is worth going through the back issues.

Blue Eyes Magazine

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

01/27/2005 01:14:44 PM · #47

Wow, thank you so much for that site...I love the links that the site lists, too. I've been a fan of some of them (in-public, especially) but that "a photo a day" site is just incredible...beautiful stuff. That's where I need to get my inspiration from...

Message edited by author 2005-01-27 13:15:09.

messerschmitt

01/27/2005 01:20:52 PM · #48

LoudDog

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

01/27/2005 01:53:23 PM · #49

First two guys are demonstrating the difference between hanging and leaning :) no issues with printing that photo.

Tuba boy looked like that on a football field with stands around him full of people. He put himself there in front of everyone by choice. If he didn't want to be seen like that he shouldn't have been there.

Sorry if I'm repeating, I haven't read the whole thread yet.

I'd say ethical issues would be more along the lines of taking pictures at a funeral, in a hospital, through a window into someone's home, up a woman's skirt... Places people don't expect to be seen or share... Someone at a sporting even doing something in front of hundreds of people can't be too ashamed of what they are doing, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.