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01/20/2005 02:08:38 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
I think it was a relationship of convenience for her. Her husband was sick one day so she blew off a wedding and sent me instead - I had to deal with the screaming bride. Stuff like that. I shot maybe 10 of her weddings this summer (because she was 9 months prego), she would hand off new clients to me if she felt like, sometimes she just blew them off. So it's not like she really went out of her way to give me a break. |
You want nothing to do with her, professionally speaking.
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01/20/2005 02:10:39 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
Sorry GringoI'm not entirely sure what you mean (????)
We're in no way considering teaming up or being business partners. We both have our own agendas and as we all know, working with family rarely is a good idea. (our parents actually own a company together: my dad manages and does all the grunt work and her dad doesn't get involved in the business portion-ironically). LOL |
I simply ment that you could line her up to do events you will not be doing. As in, "Im shooting this one tonight, you shoot that one". If you can't be in both places at the same time, how could you consider that competition. |
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01/20/2005 02:11:00 PM · #28 |
She's amazing, just a great person/friend and a great photographer. But business wise she's a bit on the slow side. We never fought or anything, but I didn't like working for/with her. We had a good laugh most days but the business side wasn't fun.
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01/20/2005 02:13:33 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
Originally posted by Gordon:
Maybe I'm just confused, but this member of your own family taught you how to use a camera in the first place, lent/rented you the equipment you needed to get started and provided you with your initial professional opportunities to shoot and now she wants something back ?! I'd tell her to get lost, she obviously has no idea what family is about. |
You are confused. I was already into photography and owned a good camera before she gave me the time of day. |
hm, i must be confused too, cause i could have sworn i remember you taking about 'your cousin the pro' a long time ago, lending you her cameras and helping you out with everything before you even got your 300D. which i always thought was pretty cool. but i guess i remember it wrongly. anyway--i would help her, it sounds like she just wants connections to go her own way with. i share connections with several photogs in my town and none of us have the same styles, so not much conflict. |
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01/20/2005 02:18:32 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
you have your own style not a single one of them is your competition. |
Sorry, I have to whole-heartedly disagree. Where I am, everyone and their dog knows a photographer..and I'd be willing to put money on the fact that at least a portion are my direct competition.
:-)
And back to my cousin, our working relationship was never really going in my favor. She would take months to pay me and I never got credit for my own work. I think it was a relationship of convenience for her. Her husband was sick one day so she blew off a wedding and sent me instead - I had to deal with the screaming bride. Stuff like that. I shot maybe 10 of her weddings this summer (because she was 9 months prego), she would hand off new clients to me if she felt like, sometimes she just blew them off. So it's not like she really went out of her way to give me a break. |
You shouldn't feel insecure around someone who exhibits a total lack of enthusiasm. You are right, photographers are everywhere, they are a dime a dozen. But good ones are kinda rare. Your work is good, let your work speak for itself. I wouldn't call her competition. |
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01/20/2005 02:26:22 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
One of the main issues here is that her, and most people in my family, don't realize how serious I take the work I do. It would be a real possibility that she'd take work from me - good work! |
Lori, It seems to me that you should have a heart to heart talk with Charla. Maybe if you discuss the situation and tactfully tell her your concerns, the two of you can work out an arrangement that is satisfactory to the both of you.
Some things to keep in mind: first, choose the setting where you have your discussion carefully. Make sure that she knows in advance that you want to have a serious talk. Try to arrange it so that there aren't any distractions. Also, think through the different scenarios that seem most likely to you, and decide beforehand how you will react. For example, decide that "if Charla says this, then I will respond that way". Decide in advance to keep your cool!
Lastly, and this is simply one person's opinion, I think that you should ere on the side of consideration for your family. If the very worst happens and she turns out to be big rival, even if she turns nasty, you will be much better off having done so. You're young, the opportunities are virtually limitless, and it will work out alright. Our reputations are the most valuable thing we have, and a riff between yourself and Charla might be very costly, both in terms of business and more importantly within the family. Good luck. |
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01/20/2005 02:32:04 PM · #32 |
Honesty and communication go a long way. Tell her what you have said here - "I appreciate all you have done for me, but I am now working at being a conert/band photographer. I'd like to help you out, but I feel that you and I will be competing for the same jobs. If i have too much work or get double booked I'l surely pass the extra work on to you. BTW, are you doing weddings anymore? If not, can you pass any inquiries over to me? I'll pay you $50 for everyone you refer that i book."
a)you have shown gratitude
b)you have explained how you feel
c)you have offered her work
d)you have asked her for work
e)you have offered to pay her for work she kicks your way
f)you have inferred you want paid for work you kick her way.
You have kept it prefoessional and should not hurt her feelings or create issues in the family.
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01/20/2005 02:50:30 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Alecia:
hm, i must be confused too, cause i could have sworn i remember you taking about 'your cousin the pro' a long time ago, lending you her cameras and helping you out with everything before you even got your 300D. |
Nope, I had my 300D. I sold it this summer and had about a month downtime with no camera - during that time she lent me her D60 to do a job, but I paid her 1/3 of what I got paid. |
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01/20/2005 02:54:02 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by Gringo:
You shouldn't feel insecure around someone who exhibits a total lack of enthusiasm. |
I just got back from lunch, and ironically, this is what I was thinking about. She's very 'blah' about my jobs and it's always bothered me. So maybe it's some resentment that I'm harboring that makes it hard for me to help her out. Which, of course, is wrong. You guys are right, I should just tell her how I feel. |
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01/20/2005 02:59:09 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
Hey all,
I have a problem I'd like some help with.
...
Any thoughts?
L |
Offer to partner with her. A team is usually better than a solo act.
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01/20/2005 03:00:49 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Offer to partner with her. A team is usually better than a solo act. |
Neither of us want a partner. She tried that before and it didn't work out and I'm just not interested at this point and time. Plus, she is less than business savvy :-) |
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01/20/2005 03:02:12 PM · #37 |
If I was doing professional photography, I can think of a lot of reason that I would want an additional shooter available.
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01/20/2005 03:11:13 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
If I was doing professional photography, I can think of a lot of reason that I would want an additional shooter available. |
When she needs a second shooter for weddings I work for her and vice versa. For my weddings I hire other assistants, people to just carry my gear - not shoot..she doesn't want to do it anyway. Neither of us needs a second shooter for the work we're getting into. |
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01/20/2005 03:19:54 PM · #39 |
I apologize to those who are taking the family is everything high road, but I cannot just sit here and let you think this is a family issue. This is NOT a family issue no matter what way you cut it. Believe me, nearly losing my mother to cancer 2 years ago, my father currently facing the possibility of cancer, the loss of my marriage due to an addictive personality who just wont let go of the game and the loss of my best dog all in the past 3 months, makes one really evaluate the value of family and I would not ever suggest something that would harm that.
That said, look again at Gold's story. She helped her cousin and then wound up having to bail her out of a 'bad situation.' Now i don't know the logisitcs of this, but I can imagine as I was left in a similar situation with a business partner who just decided to cut and run. The problem that you face here is someone you love and respect can completely ruin your repuatation as a professional if they've done it once, they are likely to do this again.
She considers Gold's work blah, does not have any long-term plans to continue in that area of photography and is pushing for contacts that will directly compete. NONE OF THIS IS GOOD FOR ANYONE.
Protect yourself and your clients/contacts from the potential and eventual backlash that may come of being generous here. Try to protect your family relationship as best you can, but don't be duped into thinking that this won't come back to bite you in the ass. It will and when it does, you'll be struggling to cover for those same mistakes again and this time it will reflect on your professionalism when you may not have even been involved.
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01/20/2005 03:33:46 PM · #40 |
I'd direct her to any of your "problem" clients. The ones you really don't want to do work for anymore anyway because they are slow to pay, change what they want in the middle or are always trying to get something more than what they were promised.
That kills 2 birds with 1 stone. Makes you look good by giveing her some leads. Gets those "special" clients out of your hair by giving them someone else to abuse.
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01/20/2005 03:34:27 PM · #41 |
Hi Arcanist, sorry to hear of all your woes :-(
I agree that in the interest of our sanity (and our family ties) we shouldn't get into business together and probably not even work in the same field. We have completely different work ethics most times.
P.S. I don't know if she thinks my work is "blah", I just meant I don't know how she feels because she comes across so indifferent, which really sucks since I have few-to-no people around to support me in that area of my life. |
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01/20/2005 03:36:08 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I'd direct her to any of your "problem" clients. The ones you really don't want to do work for anymore anyway because they are slow to pay, change what they want in the middle or are always trying to get something more than what they were promised. |
One of my worst moments as a photographer is showing up in her place to shoot a wedding..and she didn't even contact the couple beforehand. Having a bride cry just looking at you is sort of unsettling. lol
Luckily, it ended up being a great day. |
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01/20/2005 06:18:48 PM · #43 |
Oh Lori, girl we need to talk! Seams to be like Charla does not want you to leave her behind! She took time off and got you to do her stuff you her..and still got payed for it.....she had it great! if she did not feel like working you would do it for her and she would still get money! But now you are getting out on your own and doing great for yourself! Well now she wants to get back into it again.... What happen to staying home with the baby? And why does she want to take band photos now? sounds like she is woried you are doing better than her! Plus she does not need to do it anyways....
P.S I feel the same way as you ...I have few-to-no people around to support me in that area of my life (photography)
Melissa
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01/20/2005 06:37:23 PM · #44 |
Hi Mel :-)
Thanks for writing! Just don't tell the crowd in Eastport about this, I don't wnat this getting back to Charla. It's such a strange situation that I don't entirely understand, just trying to make heads or tails of it! I think you're at least partially right about her being a bit jealous, I mean, she got a lot of attention when she was actively photographing and when she became a mom that all stopped.
It sounds like there's a lot of people out there who are on their own with photography, I guess that's why we have DPC!
:-) |
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01/20/2005 07:07:25 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Offer to partner with her. A team is usually better than a solo act. |
It's a shame i had to read almost to the bottom of the second page before i saw something like this. This is definitely a way to go, imo.
Otherwise, i would totally agree with nsbca7. Gigs and work and contact will go away, and the new ones will come. It's totally different with people. |
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01/20/2005 07:22:00 PM · #46 |
| Why is she going to spend time and energy shooting in a field she could care less about? If she is serious about fashion photography, she should work on building a contact/client list in that industry. Obviously, she has the skills in photography, just no business sense. I would encourage her to follow her "dream" and offer to help her any way you can to get into fashion photography. IMO, you owe her support but not your income opportunities. |
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01/20/2005 07:57:40 PM · #47 |
be honest with her. do to her whatever you would want done to you in the situation. disregard the past, good will often brings good will. if you do decide to give her any information, consult with whoever the information pertains to before passing it on. Everyone can have their piece. You already have more 'ins' than her and therefore are still a likely candidate abover her for many jobs. I wouldn't shut the door, but just maybe show her whatever would have been great for you to know when you started out.
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01/20/2005 08:16:28 PM · #48 |
Hey,
No I will not tell, you are the only person I know in Person that does Photography, so I have to keep you on my good side...hehe
I agree she was getting attention when she was actively photographing and when she became a mom that all stopped....and now she is just a stay at home mom...and you are living the life she had! I would say she wants that back...Not that she does not like the mom thing...
I think she is just not enjoying you getting better than her!
Melissa
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
Hi Mel :-)
Thanks for writing! Just don't tell the crowd in Eastport about this, I don't wnat this getting back to Charla. It's such a strange situation that I don't entirely understand, just trying to make heads or tails of it! I think you're at least partially right about her being a bit jealous, I mean, she got a lot of attention when she was actively photographing and when she became a mom that all stopped.
It sounds like there's a lot of people out there who are on their own with photography, I guess that's why we have DPC!
:-) |
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01/20/2005 08:35:10 PM · #49 |
I understand that you don't want to partner with your cousin, Lori, which sounds like a wise decision considering her business practices. But I do place a high priority on family and on helping good people like her, so I think it would be a good idea for you to cooperate with her to the greatest degree you can. You don't have to give her your entire contact list, but maybe you can give her some contacts that you think would be good for her.
Besides, sharing your contacts with her will likely be a good thing for you in the long term. Lemme 'splain. She got a lot of work in the past that she ended up not wanting to do, so she offered it to you. If her lackadaisical business practices continue, you're going to get a lot of work from her in the future. Plus, your current clients should recognize the quality of your work and continue to call on you because of that alone. All in all, I think both your karma and your business will improve by cooperating as much as you can with your cousin.
Thanks for sparking a good conversation - good luck with your photo shoots and with your cousin!
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01/20/2005 09:07:14 PM · #50 |
Thanks guys, I definetly won't be going into business with Charla or anyone else. Right now that's just not my perogative.
I'm going to ride this out as it might be a while before she ever gets it in her head to actively shoot again. I'm not stressing about it, I'll handle it well when/if the situation arises. I'll do as much as I can and support her if she needs me.
thanks again,
Lori |
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