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01/18/2005 03:18:20 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by dswebb:
Hey Jmsetszler,
Thanks for replying. Very interesting.
That's almost exactly where I am, sort of... I started taking pictures of my kids at local sporting events, and loved it. Since then I've started taking pictures of friends kids at their high school basketball and football games. The parents have loved them. I've even sold some to other parents (of kids I don't know, I'd rather give them to kids I do know, just personal) and they've been very pleased. I've since then started giving the shots to the persons at the schools in charge of the yearbooks. They've also liked them. I figured it was a good "in" to get in friendly with those people, it might lead to something someday... Because while I don't want to do this full time for a living (or maybe I do? Hmmmm... :-) ), I do REALLY enjoy it, so that if I can get some other opportunities and also make just some extra bucks for it part time, that'd be GREAT.
Any suggestions for the next step? Since I don't know anyone at a local paper? Just call them up and/or go in?
Anybody have any experience with school yearbooks out there? I figure they probably don't have any budget to pay for shots. And I don't really want to charge them, or at least not much. But just wondering. Maybe someone else has experience with that area?
GoldBerry: What is a "practicum?" Thanks for your info too. Very encouraging.
Any suggestions for what I might have done "wrong" along the way?
Any suggestions or tips welcome! Thanks for the input everyone.
Doug |
I work part time for a school photography company. I started doing undergrad portrait work and now shoot sports/candids for the yearbook. It is a good seasonal part time job. I tell them my weekly availability and then they give me assignments for the next week. I shoot digital and give them a certain amount of shots that are editied for lighting and cropped. Its not great pay, but it is good practice for getting better at shooting sports.
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01/18/2005 03:18:33 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
John, what do you suppose a newspaper's attitude would be towards somebody who was looking for occasional stories (weekends/evenings) as opposed to committing to even part-time work? When do you do most of your shooting for the paper? |
I'm technically not 'part time'. I'm considered a vendor. I'm not on the payroll.
Right now, most of my shooting is on Tuesday and Friday nights for high school basketball. There are occasional college games on Saturday nights. I haven't shot much of anythign for them during the day. I'm averaging 2-3 assignments a week at the moment, which is more than I got during football season. All the football work was on Friday nights.
I don't know the answer to your question though. Each paper will have its own requirements and flexabilities. If you are interested in being a stringer, you have nothing to lose by asking for the work. They may take you up on it.
You don't get to negotiate the price for your work though (or at least I don't). It's possible to do in some circumstances but not many. I get a flat $40 per assignment. Over Christmas, I had a double assignment of two basketball games back to back and I gave them a $10 break on that one... lol
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01/18/2005 03:19:32 PM · #28 |
| The full time staff photographers at the large papers in town (I"m in Calgary btw) work on shifts. You do the job that falls on your shift. When I shot Slipknot last week the Herald sent a woman who was 4 months pregnant. We got to talking and she was not happy at all about being there..they're a heavy metal/goth band and it was really rough. But it was her shift. |
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01/18/2005 03:22:46 PM · #29 |
Okay, cool. I think I have a mini plan...I will try and collect as many "human interest" photos as I can over the next four months (including the obilgatory kids flying over a jump on a toboggan) and at the end of April I will try and have a decent portfolio for them to look at...does that make sense?
I figure they will be busier over the summer with more events and stuff to cover...or is my thinking backwards, since there's no school at that time?
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01/18/2005 03:34:04 PM · #30 |
TCT, I don't see why, if you have some decent stuff already, you can't just bug the photo editor into starting you out with a few smaller jobs.
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01/18/2005 03:37:54 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
Okay, cool. I think I have a mini plan...I will try and collect as many "human interest" photos as I can over the next four months (including the obilgatory kids flying over a jump on a toboggan) and at the end of April I will try and have a decent portfolio for them to look at...does that make sense?
I figure they will be busier over the summer with more events and stuff to cover...or is my thinking backwards, since there's no school at that time? |
From my experience, that would be backwards.
The reason they use me is for help covering the school sports. I don't expect to get much, if any, work from them during the summer months, but time will tell.
I have a bit of an advantage I guess. My local newspaper has two staff photographers and both of them hate shooting sports. I don't particularly care for it myself but I enjoy the experience of doing it. The photo editor can assign me work at his discretion, so I usually get work on game nights since he doesn't like doing it. The two staff photographers usually rotate taking tuesday/friday nights off right now and I get to shoot on both nights. During football season where all the games are on Friday night, all three of us worked and each of us covered one game. We are currently only covering two games per night on basketball but it's happening twice a week...
I don't know what will happen when baseball starts up.
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01/18/2005 03:39:02 PM · #32 |
| Any Spanish people out there? if so, have you a copy of ESSENTIAL magazine? the little booklet you get with that... right, still with me... 5 of my pics are in that!! im so excited... I havent been paid anything (it's owned by my brother-in-law)but it's a great step in the right direction... having little things like that will be great in your portfolio.... I have done the last 3 magazines.... |
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01/18/2005 03:46:36 PM · #33 |
Here's a brief rundown of a Friday Night Football package assignment from my newspaper... most assignments consisted of 6 photos:
1 - main action shot - Main Action Example
This shot is a straightforward action shot from the game.
2/3 - feature/fan shot - Example
The feature photo could be about anything as long as it included someone doing something. I did things like these kids with the body paint as well as people cooking in the concession stands... just whatever I could find... The fan shot is a simple mugshot that is accompanied by an (idiotic) interview sheet that the paper supplied to me that I had to fill out.
4/5/6 - Block Shots -
Example
We had to provide 3 of these each week. These photos were usually squares at the bottom of the pages in the sports section. They could be anything including people. I usually would get a coach, the band, cheerleaders, some interesting fans in the stands, etc...
You always have to identify individuals in the photos unless its a rather large group of people...
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01/18/2005 03:52:31 PM · #34 |
Thanks, John...that's great!
Two questions...kind of.
1) How big is your town and does it have more than one highschool with a sports team? Are the games usually one high school vs. another in the same town or are you always covering the same team?
2) Would it make sense for me to go to a few events and submit one or more photo stories (like you have done here) to the paper as part of my portfolio to provide shots in context?
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01/18/2005 03:57:43 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
Thanks, John...that's great!
Two questions...kind of.
1) How big is your town and does it have more than one highschool with a sports team? Are the games usually one high school vs. another in the same town or are you always covering the same team?
2) Would it make sense for me to go to a few events and submit one or more photo stories (like you have done here) to the paper as part of my portfolio to provide shots in context? |
1 - my town is about 45000 people but the 'county' is pretty much included in football coverage... probably 200k people in the county if not more. There are about 8 teams that we cover fairly regularly.
2 - thats not a bad idea :) You may have difficulty getting on the sideline of a football game or baseline of a basketball game without the proper ID, but it won't hurt to try. High school basketball would probably be easiest. Just go to the game and seat yourself against the wall along the baseline somewhere and start shooting. I have seen non-press people doing this locally without much trouble. If you decide to try basketball, just make sure to stay out of the way of the referees. They will be getting in your way plenty though :)
**Edit:
My local paper concentrates on teams that play in the circulation area of the paper ;)
Message edited by author 2005-01-18 15:58:54.
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01/18/2005 04:00:34 PM · #36 |
Thanks again the info. I'll make sure to bug you for your opinion if I make the leap and take some high school sports photos!
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01/18/2005 04:04:15 PM · #37 |
John,
You raise an interesting question for me...
First you say that you are a "vendor" and NOT on the payroll. That implies to me that you have no contract with the paper. No legal agreement on assignments, costs, equipment, etc etc etc. Msybe just a "gentlemen's agreement" and a handshake?
Then you say you can't negotiate prices... But why not? From the above it doesn't appear you have any prior binding agreement on prices. So, if you happen to get a really GREAT shot of something, or are the only one covering the championship game or something, couldn't you tell them, "No, I don't think $40 will get you these pictures, I think it will take $100 this time." or some such...?
Or is the reason you can't do that because then they'll say "Fine, keep your pictures, and we no longer need your services." and never call you again? I guess it depends on how much they actually NEED your services...
I guess what I'm getting at is if you don't actually work for the paper, do THEY own the images you get as soon as you take them? Or only after you give them to them for the $40?
Just curious... It doesn't really matter too much to me, as I DO enjoy shooting sports, and would be glad to do it for free. As I have been so far!!! ha ha ha ha. So whatever they pay me would be gravy. But I don't want to be taken advantage of if I happen to get a "once in a lifetime" picture by some luck either...
Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience with all of us here, it's much appreciated.
Doug |
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01/18/2005 04:08:39 PM · #38 |
TCT,
Yeah, when I've shot high school basketball for my friends kids (two different teams, multiple times) I've just gone down and sat/crouched along the wall at the baseline, or at the end of the players bench. Nobody has ever said anything to me. The refs ignore me as long as I stay out of the way. One tip tho...if the ball comes near you, grab it and toss it back to the ref. They seem to appreciate that, and even say "thanks" most of the time. Doesn't hurt to help them out... :-)
Doug
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01/18/2005 04:09:03 PM · #39 |
| I called my local small paper , and asked if there were any part time , fill in positions , and got lucky , They gave me a letter , stating that I work part time , and my local goverment issued me a press pass , I won't get paid , but who cares , for now I will try to gain experence and hope to get one of my pictures in the paper . thanks to jmsetzler , I gave it a try |
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01/18/2005 04:11:29 PM · #40 |
TLL061, way to go! Nice to hear it works! Thanks for telling us. I'm going to try and find a name to call in our local paper too... All they can say is "No." :-)
Now, how do I find that name and number...? How did you do it?? Thanks for any info!
Doug
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01/18/2005 04:23:19 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by TLL061:
I called my local small paper , and asked if there were any part time , fill in positions , and got lucky , They gave me a letter , stating that I work part time , and my local goverment issued me a press pass , I won't get paid , but who cares , for now I will try to gain experence and hope to get one of my pictures in the paper . thanks to jmsetzler , I gave it a try |
Wow, that's great!
I actually do have a contact at the local paper (friend of friend) so I might just try the same...
Could you give me more details about what you wrote to them, as well as what you think your future holds with them (have you been given any assignments)?
Thanks...
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01/18/2005 04:26:18 PM · #42 |
| I went to a high school sports event and talked to one of photographers , talk nice to them and ask them if they know anybody , try to get someones name , and then call and ask to be a fill in if someone can't make it just to get your foot in |
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01/18/2005 04:30:34 PM · #43 |
TLL061,
Interesting... Thanks.
But you know, maybe our local paper here just stinks... Cause at all the football and basketball games I've been to, I've NEVER seen any other photographers (other than mom's with point and shoot cameras). That tells me my paper either NEEDS HELP covering them, or else is not INTERESTED in them since none of the readership is interested... Or maybe I've just not noticed them? Nah, perhaps I missed them at the football games, but I sure would have seen them at the basketball games...
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01/18/2005 04:35:08 PM · #44 |
| My future is just to gain experence , I asked the photographer for help and he gave me a name , I asked him if I could use his name , I though about what I wanted to say and then called her and just talked nice to her and got lucky , this paper is a very small paper no big deal , local . but it is a start , I can't give up my day job . |
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01/18/2005 04:37:48 PM · #45 |
high school sports are pretty big here , there is always a photographer at the big games , football , basketball wressling , gymnastic , swimming , ect , as a photographer , I suck , but i'm still gonna try
Message edited by author 2005-01-18 16:39:41. |
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01/18/2005 04:39:08 PM · #46 |
I'm just starting out down this path, and have been offered regular work by a local magazine. It's been driving me crazy though... as I have to write articles as well. You'd have thought that businesses would be jumping over themselves for a mention in the magazine, it's free advertising! But no, it's an uphill struggle to arrange interviews with people who should know better.
I fancied taking some sports shots of the local football team for the magazine, so I rang up everyone and their dogs to find out how to go about this. Well, the FA have to accredit any photographers who take photos of league matches... they will only accredit me if I have 15 published photos of football action shots. The only football in my area that will get published is league football. Hmmm. I'm not even that interested in football. I might persevere though, as I'm keen to try as much as possible. Chasing promoters to get hold of press passes for large arena gigs is a nightmare as well. I'm trying to get hold of someone high up at Sony at the moment for a press pass... the musician in me is in disbelief at having been given this contact! Pshh... I can see I'm going to need persistence, persistence, persistence. |
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01/18/2005 04:45:34 PM · #47 |
BobsterLobster,
What's the "FA"? |
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01/18/2005 04:48:26 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by dswebb:
BobsterLobster,
What's the "FA"? |
Asoociation for Football played with feet :) |
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01/18/2005 05:01:47 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by dswebb:
John,
You raise an interesting question for me...
First you say that you are a "vendor" and NOT on the payroll. That implies to me that you have no contract with the paper. No legal agreement on assignments, costs, equipment, etc etc etc. Msybe just a "gentlemen's agreement" and a handshake?
Then you say you can't negotiate prices... But why not? From the above it doesn't appear you have any prior binding agreement on prices. So, if you happen to get a really GREAT shot of something, or are the only one covering the championship game or something, couldn't you tell them, "No, I don't think $40 will get you these pictures, I think it will take $100 this time." or some such...?
Or is the reason you can't do that because then they'll say "Fine, keep your pictures, and we no longer need your services." and never call you again? I guess it depends on how much they actually NEED your services...
I guess what I'm getting at is if you don't actually work for the paper, do THEY own the images you get as soon as you take them? Or only after you give them to them for the $40?
Just curious... It doesn't really matter too much to me, as I DO enjoy shooting sports, and would be glad to do it for free. As I have been so far!!! ha ha ha ha. So whatever they pay me would be gravy. But I don't want to be taken advantage of if I happen to get a "once in a lifetime" picture by some luck either...
Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience with all of us here, it's much appreciated.
Doug |
It is a 'gentleman's' agreement. If I won't do it for what they want to pay, someone else will, so I do it simply because I enjoy it. I could refuse to give them certain photos if I chose to do so, and it would likely be the last time I did anything for them.
My agreement with them is that I can't 'sell' (not that these images have any sale value) anything that I provide them to print. If a parent contacts me directly wanting a photo of their kid I shot at a sports event, I have to send them to the newspaper to get it. Anything I shoot they don't run, I can do whatever I want with.
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01/18/2005 09:13:01 PM · #50 |
Thanks for so much fascinating information John. I am trying to get enough experience, and confidence, to approach a local paper to do something like what you are. I am satisfied with what I can do at a daytime football game, night games arn't quite there yet.
But now am struggling with the lighting at HS basketball. What kind of lens and flash are you using? and what settings? I am shooting mostly with a 85mm 1.8 and so far my best images have come with no flash. Using my 20D's built in flash is sometimes ok, mostly not very good. I bought a 580EX but haven't learned how to use it very well. Any advise on settings, both camera and flash, would be greatly appreciated.
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