Interestingly harsh critiques of my photo

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

01/10/2005 05:35:50 AM · #1

Please take a look at my entry for teh mechanical contest: //www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=130216

Please view the comment I made (the first one on the list, which is in response to the other comments.

Am I really that off?

BobsterLobster

Fujifilm FinePix S3 Pro

01/10/2005 05:41:52 AM · #2

You may have produced a photo which you thought technically met the challenge as DPC specified, but did you really think that your photo met the spirit of a 'mechanical' challenge?

Kavey

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

01/10/2005 05:48:48 AM · #3

Meeting the challenge means considering both the NAME of the challenge and the description.

From your own comment it seems you concentrated on the description to the exclusion of the NAME (main theme) itself.

The description is meant to serve only to clarify and sometimes to further limit the theme given by the Challenge NAME.

Jinjit

01/10/2005 05:49:12 AM · #4

First - Please don't judge me on the wording of what I want to say, for English is not my native tongue, and I might be using the in-appropriate words here.

As for your response to the critique - I have found it as in some way trying to be too smart.
You only read the second part of the challenge's wording, while totaly ignoring the first part. The full detail was "Photograph something that is mechanical and doesn't use electronics as a means of operation."

So you're right. A candle is not operated electronically. But there's a first part: Photograph something that is mechanical. Is candle mechanical? You said it yourself. No it is not.
So why are you now disagreeing with everyone else who thinks the same way?
In the challenges, you are asked to be not only creative, but also to answer the challenge as a whole. Not to take the parts of it that you feel are more interesting, and ignore other parts.

This being your first challenge has nothing to do with the final score, for no one could have known this was YOUR imag, or a "newbe" image during the voting.

Don't be a sour looser. Simply learn the lesson and keep on shooting!

brianlh

Canon EOS-450D Rebel XSi

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

01/10/2005 05:49:29 AM · #5

i think the specification about not using electricity was more to ward off things like computers than to define the word 'mechanical' itself.

edit: guess two people responded since i clicked reply and cover it pretty well.

Message edited by author 2005-01-10 05:50:33.

PeterC

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

01/10/2005 05:53:24 AM · #6

I kind of felt candles were such early technology they pre dated Mechanical by a long way, The challenge actually specifically mentioned electronic's so I thought that some good old electrical equipment of the 50's - 60's era would have been good that said it would have probably suffered in the voting, I'm trying to learn to guess the general interpretation of the rules rather than just the one that pop's in my head, good luck for the future

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

01/10/2005 05:53:57 AM · #7

Writer,

To most people, the concept "mechanical" requires a tool or a machine to be viable. When you read a challenge description that says "not electrical", it's abit of a stretch to leap from that to the theory that allthings not electrical are mechanical.

It may be within your artistic purview to make that leap; I won't argue that point with you. But you'd be engaging in really wishful thinking if you expected most, or even many, voters to follow you down that path.

Along thosse lines, one of the high-scoring entries int hat challenge was of a human LEG; this, of course, is "mechanical" in the sense that it is a series of connected levers. The presentation of the photo was such as to get the concept across, but this also required an intuitive leap by the voters, as most people would take "mecanical" to mean 'artificial", and be inclined to score down any entry using biological referents. Yet, there is a field of applied science called biomechanical engineering, so the two aren't mutually exclusive.

This was an example of successful outside-the-box thinking. In your case, it didn't work. Don't be afraid to keep trying to go outside that box; lust don't be too annoyed if you mostly don't get followed. In the candid challenge I did what I think was a really nice candid of my dog meeting snow for the first time. It was voted down way beyond its photographic merits (or so I think anyway) because a LOT of voters don't think it's possible to do candids of animals, by definition.

I wasn't surprised this happened. I don't "blame" anyone but me, for being deliberately contrary in pursuit of my own, warped vision. I expect to go down in flames on Movie Titles too.

Robt.

Falc

Canon EOS-1D Mark III

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

01/10/2005 05:59:53 AM · #8

Well I didn't comment on the image in the challenge, though I did vote. I gave it a 3 because I couldn't link anything with my notion of what the challenge was about.

Thats the nub of the problem, any image to score highly has to conform to each and every voters idea of what the challenge is asking. By stepping out to the limits you will find a good proportion of voters just won't go with you.

If you like the image and it meets your criteria then thats fine. Don't get hung up about it, just go on having learnt from the experience.

01/10/2005 06:08:29 AM · #9

Thank you all for your responses.

"So why are you now disagreeing with everyone else who thinks the same way?"

That's not what I'm doing at all. I agree that candles are not classically mechanical. I'm just upset that no one was able to keep an open mind.

"Don't be a sour looser"

I'm just attempting to understand the reasoning of those who disliked my photo, to ensure a better learning experience for myself. Winning or losing simply doesn't matter to me.

--

I'm not upset with the lack of high votes, I'm upset with the close mindedness of the comments and the reasoning of the low votes. Today, a purpose of photography is to express artistic creativity, I feel as if I did this, while staying within the stated boundaries of the competition....

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

01/10/2005 06:12:18 AM · #10

I also was hoping that people would see my title of the photo and understand my reasoning.

"Truth in Light"

1) Truth... referring to the definition of mechanical as stated by DPC
2) Truth in Light referring to the only "true" mechanical (by DPC's definition) light.

Kavey

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

01/10/2005 06:21:21 AM · #11

Originally posted by thewriterside:

I agree that candles are not classically mechanical. I'm just upset that no one was able to keep an open mind.

The fact that people do not feel that candles are mechanical items does not mean that they are not viewing the issue with an open mind.

I have an open mind but that doesn't mean that I'll agree if someone tells me that elephants are made of cheese.

Having an open mind means having a willingness to consider alternative viewpoints, to give the benefit of the doubt, to be open to changing one's mind if the information merits it...

It doesn't mean accepting anything and everything.

Beagleboy

Canon EOS-30D

Tokina AF 12-24mm f/4.0 AT-X Pro DX

01/10/2005 06:22:48 AM · #12

Originally posted by thewriterside:

Don't be surprised that many DPC users didn't get it. I didn't. According to what I've heard from some, many of us are dumb as posts. To be frank, the image received the score and comments it deserved. "Thinking" too far "out of the box" usually does not get rewarded. All that happens is that you lose site of "the box". Stick around. You'll quickly start understanding the site formula to submitting winning images.

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

01/10/2005 06:30:22 AM · #13

"It doesn't mean accepting anything and everything."

I never stated that as my definition of keeping an open mind.

Everyone made it clear in their comments that they didn't take my reasoning and justification into consideration, which would be keeping an open mind.

Kavey

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

01/10/2005 06:45:31 AM · #14

Originally posted by thewriterside:

Everyone made it clear in their comments that they didn't take my reasoning and justification into consideration, which would be keeping an open mind.

You're making assumptions.

What if they took your idea into consideration, thought about it openly and willingly BUT concluded that they DIDN'T agree with you.

What if people looked at your image with a willingness give it a high score if they could find a way to accept your interpretation of the challenge but simply felt that, after consideration, they didn't think it merited more than the vote they gave it?

Keeping an open mind means the willingness to CONSIDER something without prejudice. It says nothing about the final opinion reached.

01/10/2005 07:28:13 AM · #15

Originally posted by Kavey:

Originally posted by thewriterside:
Everyone made it clear in their comments that they didn't take my reasoning and justification into consideration, which would be keeping an open mind.

You're making assumptions.

What if they took your idea into consideration, thought about it openly and willingly BUT concluded that they DIDN'T agree with you.

What if people looked at your image with a willingness give it a high score if they could find a way to accept your interpretation of the challenge but simply felt that, after consideration, they didn't think it merited more than the vote they gave it?

Keeping an open mind means the willingness to CONSIDER something without prejudice. It says nothing about the final opinion reached.

My judgement was based on the matter-of-fact context and feel of most of the comments.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

01/10/2005 07:46:30 AM · #16

Well, I want to thank everyone for their comments, as I truly value them as I try to better my photographing techniques. Thanks again to all!

colda

Nikon D800

01/10/2005 07:48:54 AM · #17

Being on DPC will test and change your view of photography. We take photos and put a bit of our hearts and souls into our work just to see it dismissed and abused by others without a moments thought for care and consideration - it hurts and after many months it still hurts (although not so much now). Part of my innocent joy of photography has been lost but also I've gained so much knowledge from being on here, in essence, taking part here is a transition that helps your photographic skills reach a new level at speed.

You will find over a period of time that there are some images that you take and like, they speak to you, but when 2-300 people are skimming through 1-300 images then you pic needs to bloody well shout to do well. I entered an image into the candid contest that I knew would not do well and don't feel at all bad about it, and I an images in 'Bokeh' that is doing worse than I expected (this does sting a little). So many people here will tell you, you have to develop a thick skin, be thankful that people have taken the time to comment rather than being upset about what they have written. I can assure you that by far the vast majority of people in this community are here to help.

Enjoy your photography, scores on DPC are not that important at the end of the day.

Darren

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

01/10/2005 07:54:05 AM · #18

Originally posted by colda:

Thank you, Darren.

jonpink

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX2

01/10/2005 07:54:36 AM · #19

Originally posted by thewriterside:

Please take a look at my entry for the mechanical contest: //www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=130216

Please view the comment I made (the first one on the list, which is in response to the other comments.

Am I really that off?

It's not harsh, it's just that your new. Everyone takes a while here to understand how the users vote and what works and doesn't work.

In essence, you have to hit the nail on the head with the challenge topic. Don't think outside the box if you want to score well.

Think of it this way, if a magazine commissioned you to take a 'Mechanical' shot of something, would you present them with a candle image? Most likely they would never come back.

Thinking of your images in this way is the best method to prevent misunderstandings.

I too used to get frustrated, and learned quickly about nails and heads.

SDW

Canon EOS-60D

01/10/2005 07:56:59 AM · #20

Hi â�� I have looked at your entry, your comment, and the comments of voters. I have to agree with the comments of the voters on this one. You stated in your comment that you were basing your Interpretation on DPC definition of â��Mechanicalâ��. I donâ��t see where DPC was giving us the definition of â��mechanicalâ��; they were just adding a statement that it â��doesn't use electronics as a means of operation.â��
Details: Photograph something that is mechanical and doesn't use electronics as a means of operation. I believe the reason they put this added element in the details is because there are a few mechanical items that use electronics as well.
However I do think you picture was well done but IMO it did not meet the challenge. With that said I would not of given it a 1 because your picture shows that you tried and did a good job technically.